dave mcbride Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 They will be the only team in the NFL that has failed to reach at least 8-8 since the end of the 2004 season. They are now arguably the worst franchise in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 They will be the only team in the NFL that has failed to reach at least 8-8 since the end of the 2004 season. They are now arguably the worst franchise in the league. pretty bad when the 7-9 Dick years are now looking like the good old days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 They will be the only team in the NFL that has failed to reach at least 8-8 since the end of the 2004 season. They are now arguably the worst franchise in the league. Not even close. This one stat doesn't support that. I for one think Miami is in much more shambles than we are and have been, among other teams like Jax, Browns, KC, St. louis, Vikings, Washington. I wouldn't take any of these teams over ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zazie Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Not even close. This one stat doesn't support that. I for one think Miami is in much more shambles than we are and have been, among other teams like Jax, Browns, KC, St. louis, Vikings, Washington. I wouldn't take any of these teams over ours. With those teams you mention there is at some point light of day again. This Bills team has a dearth of talent and of coaching, we are going to lose our best players to free agency, we piss off our other best players with contract shenanigans, etc. etc. Where is the end of the tunnel for the Bills? Seems like they will be in the play-offs again soon, on the first....of never. Hope I am wrong and something turns around/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Not even close. This one stat doesn't support that. I for one think Miami is in much more shambles than we are and have been, among other teams like Jax, Browns, KC, St. louis, Vikings, Washington. I wouldn't take any of these teams over ours. Note that OP did not say "team," he said "franchise." We're not talking about trading roster for roster. We're talking about comparing everything over a 7 year span. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny33 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Not even close. This one stat doesn't support that. I for one think Miami is in much more shambles than we are and have been, among other teams like Jax, Browns, KC, St. louis, Vikings, Washington. I wouldn't take any of these teams over ours. Over the past seven years, all of those teams have made the playoffs, some multiple times. In the context of the past seven years, Buffalo has easily been the worst franchise in the league. In terms of the future, Miami, Jacksonville, Washington, and Cleveland have excellent defenses. All are in better position to grab one of the top quarterbacks (Barkley, Robert Griffin III) than we are. Cleveland has drafted well under Holmgren and has two first-round picks this year thanks to the Julio Jones trade. I think we are in better shape than Minnesota, St. Louis, Kansas City, and the Colts, but it's evident that we are a bottom-ten team until we start hitting on our first and second round picks consistently while keeping our most productive players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sllib olaffub Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Two responses above seem very perceptive: one, those teams that might have worse records at least have better defenses, or are in position to draft a QB (look at Miami, for instance. It has a very good WR, a couple others that are comparable to our own group, a terrific young LT, a solid Defense that is good enough to play with anyone - you add a dynamic young franchise QB, and I can see them turned around in two years and looking very good for a long time.) - whereas, Buffalo has as many holes as players they'll lose along the way of filling the holes they have now; and, as always, will be just out of reach of the best QB's - most likely, so that in two years, when Miami, or Indy is looking to make a multi year playoff run, we'll still be arguing over who will coach us, who will be the future QB, etc. And, secondly: those teams have, at least, front offices that have, and will again, spend what it takes to get the right coaches and players. I mean, no Franchise except Buffalo - and maybe Jacksonville - have the kind of reputation Buffalo has that makes any Coach or GM or top F.A. laugh at the idea of coming here. Laugh! And we're one of only 32 teams in the whole world! That is Ownership, and that makes up the bottom, the pit - and there is only one thing that will change it. It's too bad Ralph looks to be waiting for someone to move the team before anything good will be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheddar's Dad Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Zazie says this team has a dearth of talent and of coaching. I'd like to respectfully disagree with you, Zazie. The Bills team that opened the season had plenty of talent. Recall the comeback wins vs Oakland and New England and the dismanteling of Kansas City. That doesn't happen with teams that have a dearth of talent or bad coaching. The team was very good back then and well coached. Today, many of Buffalo's best players are on Injured Reserve. It's as simple as that. It bothers me that Bills fans seem to look back at previous seasons or at the fact that the Bills, this year, seem to be in nearly the same position they were in last year and the year before, etc. I think I saw the end of the tunnel at the start of this year. The tunnel had a gaping hole with rays of bright sunlight. With Kyle, Eric, Fred and the others back on the field next year, this team will be fine. In the meantime, we fans can look forward to another high first round pick to make this team even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zazie Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Zazie says this team has a dearth of talent and of coaching. I'd like to respectfully disagree with you, Zazie. The Bills team that opened the season had plenty of talent. Recall the comeback wins vs Oakland and New England and the dismanteling of Kansas City. That doesn't happen with teams that have a dearth of talent or bad coaching. The team was very good back then and well coached. Today, many of Buffalo's best players are on Injured Reserve. It's as simple as that. It bothers me that Bills fans seem to look back at previous seasons or at the fact that the Bills, this year, seem to be in nearly the same position they were in last year and the year before, etc. I think I saw the end of the tunnel at the start of this year. The tunnel had a gaping hole with rays of bright sunlight. With Kyle, Eric, Fred and the others back on the field next year, this team will be fine. In the meantime, we fans can look forward to another high first round pick to make this team even better. Respectfully, every team has injuries to their best players every year. 2nd string can be coached up and play well. Did not happen for us though, not this year, not 2008, not in a long while. Talent-wise we have a few first string guys that are pretty good... but will SJ be here next year? Will Wood play at the same level by next year already? Will they pay FJ and make him a happy contributor now that the Pears contract is done? I have had the same mindset as you for many years - next year will be better, etc. Just losing my steam, the DJ years were exceedingly tediuos and painful, and we seem to be in much the same spot now sadly. Bring back Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton or coach Marv Levy - let's save America and save the Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuSeYiN1978 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Two responses above seem very perceptive: one, those teams that might have worse records at least have better defenses, or are in position to draft a QB (look at Miami, for instance. It has a very good WR, a couple others that are comparable to our own group, a terrific young LT, a solid Defense that is good enough to play with anyone - you add a dynamic young franchise QB, and I can see them turned around in two years and looking very good for a long time.) - whereas, Buffalo has as many holes as players they'll lose along the way of filling the holes they have now; and, as always, will be just out of reach of the best QB's - most likely, so that in two years, when Miami, or Indy is looking to make a multi year playoff run, we'll still be arguing over who will coach us, who will be the future QB, etc. And, secondly: those teams have, at least, front offices that have, and will again, spend what it takes to get the right coaches and players. I mean, no Franchise except Buffalo - and maybe Jacksonville - have the kind of reputation Buffalo has that makes any Coach or GM or top F.A. laugh at the idea of coming here. Laugh! And we're one of only 32 teams in the whole world! That is Ownership, and that makes up the bottom, the pit - and there is only one thing that will change it. It's too bad Ralph looks to be waiting for someone to move the team before anything good will be done with it. I'm definitely in the middle as far as your comment on Ralph and it will be talked about until the day he dies and after he dies he will be remembered as a Hall of Fame owner who brought a team to the great city of Buffalo... Does he want the Bills to do good? Obviously... Does he make the best decisions as far as hiring the right people? No... You gotta start from the heart and then judge the decision in my opinion... Even in personal relationships, you love someone but along the way you treat them bad or let's say make a wrong decision or a decision that can hurt the relationship. That's how i feel Ralph is. I havent met too many 90 plus year old people (met yes but actually sat down and talked to day after day no) but my guess is that a man his age can't make a reasonable decision even if he wanted to... How smart can you be at that age let's be serious. Would you trust Ralph to drive your car? No... So how can he or even his kids or whoever the Hell is gonna take over this franchise allow for him to still be behind the wheel of this organization? That's really the only question I have... I come from a very prideful family and if my father was the owner to the Bills i would love them just as much as he did and tell my father to take a step back and let me start running things from here on out so he can relax and just watch what his son can do... Or at least give me a shot... I doubt his kids are even 20 percent as passionate as he is about the Bills which is why we're stuck in this position we're in... I think deep inside Ralph feels he has noone he can trust as far as guiding the Bills in the right direction and he finds comfort in guys like Chan being the coach and Buddy being the GM cuz they're a couple of southern boys who speak from the heart...(More so Chan than Buddy)... Anybody else who speaks to Ralph is probably politician type people who only speak to him as far as numbers and the number game and business this and business that... He's too old to crunch numbers in his head... I blame it on his kids to be honest with you guys... Noone loves the Bills more than him and we have to sit back and just take it... It's just the position we're in... We can complain about it but what we love is what we love and that's the Bills...All I know is that if the Bills ever DO become a successful organization, us as fans will go down in history and should be the first "fans" in the hall of fame... Like actually be eligible to be in the Hall of Fame... And our bust in Canton should be a bunch of silouhettes of people, short, tall, man, woman and child holding up the Bills logo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 They will be the only team in the NFL that has failed to reach at least 8-8 since the end of the 2004 season. They are now arguably the worst franchise in the league. Gregg Williams was 17-31, Mularkey 14-18, Jauron 24-33, and Gailey is 9-20 deep into his second season. The first two guys have either returned to or become solid coordinators in the NFL, DJ inexplicably got another DC job, and Gailey was out of the NFL for almost a decade. It's beyond reason how a team can be so bad for so long without a bad front office. It's easy to blame coaching and players, but the behind the scenes people remain at the heart of their dysfunction. Whoever is running the team for RW, be it Littmann or Brandon, seems to have taken a calculated approach to all of this. I just don't think they're fooling people anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) They will be the only team in the NFL that has failed to reach at least 8-8 since the end of the 2004 season. They are now arguably the worst franchise in the league. I guess going 0-16 isn't the mark of shame it used to be. There's always next year. Oh I did find this nugget... According to Football Outsiders, who has tracked every play in the NFL since the early 1990s, the 2004 Bills are statistically the best NFL team (in their record-keeping history) to have failed to qualify for the playoffs. Really? Statistically better than the 11-5 Patriots team of 2008? PTR Edited December 17, 2011 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keukasmallies Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Assuming the Bills lose one more game is about as risky as assuming today is Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Note that OP did not say "team," he said "franchise." We're not talking about trading roster for roster. We're talking about comparing everything over a 7 year span. Exactly, there is no question in my mind that we are in fact the worst franchise in the NFL. From the front office, to scouting, and right down to coaching, we are definitely the worst. After this failure of a season, we will stand alone in terms of epic gridiron failure. Geez, don't we all love being Bills fans? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET1062 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 When you assume, you make an ass out of u and me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sllib olaffub Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I'm definitely in the middle as far as your comment on Ralph and it will be talked about until the day he dies and after he dies he will be remembered as a Hall of Fame owner who brought a team to the great city of Buffalo... Does he want the Bills to do good? Obviously... Does he make the best decisions as far as hiring the right people? No... You gotta start from the heart and then judge the decision in my opinion... Even in personal relationships, you love someone but along the way you treat them bad or let's say make a wrong decision or a decision that can hurt the relationship. That's how i feel Ralph is. I havent met too many 90 plus year old people (met yes but actually sat down and talked to day after day no) but my guess is that a man his age can't make a reasonable decision even if he wanted to... How smart can you be at that age let's be serious. Would you trust Ralph to drive your car? No... So how can he or even his kids or whoever the Hell is gonna take over this franchise allow for him to still be behind the wheel of this organization? That's really the only question I have... I come from a very prideful family and if my father was the owner to the Bills i would love them just as much as he did and tell my father to take a step back and let me start running things from here on out so he can relax and just watch what his son can do... Or at least give me a shot... I doubt his kids are even 20 percent as passionate as he is about the Bills which is why we're stuck in this position we're in... I think deep inside Ralph feels he has noone he can trust as far as guiding the Bills in the right direction and he finds comfort in guys like Chan being the coach and Buddy being the GM cuz they're a couple of southern boys who speak from the heart...(More so Chan than Buddy)... Anybody else who speaks to Ralph is probably politician type people who only speak to him as far as numbers and the number game and business this and business that... He's too old to crunch numbers in his head... I blame it on his kids to be honest with you guys... Noone loves the Bills more than him and we have to sit back and just take it... It's just the position we're in... We can complain about it but what we love is what we love and that's the Bills...All I know is that if the Bills ever DO become a successful organization, us as fans will go down in history and should be the first "fans" in the hall of fame... Like actually be eligible to be in the Hall of Fame... And our bust in Canton should be a bunch of silouhettes of people, short, tall, man, woman and child holding up the Bills logo... Thank you for offering a fresh take on the subject of Ralph Wilson. Most of me would like to simply agree that the old man loves this team, put his heart and soul into it, and just can't run it anymore, and has nobody to run it for him that is interested in ANYTHING OTHER THAN KEEPING IT AS PROFITABLE AS POSSIBLE! That is why I've wondered if it isn't really a coorporation approach, where any and all sacrifices must be made to maximize profit. I don't think there are too many instances in life where things are clearly black and white. I'm sure much of what you said has merit. However, Ralph has had this similar pattern for much of his life, during times of vigor and lucidity. He got lucky with Polian, Butler, Marv and Company., and quickly destroyed the Franchise that was so much to the Bills community over what now seems like nothing - in terms of Management Salary. I mean, if it weren't for his relentless mentality that dictates "You don't need rocket scientists, and you don't need to pay guys millions of dollars to run a football team that any high school coach worth his salt could run successfully", then we wouldn't be in this mess - at least not for so long. He just refuses to pay what the league has established as legitimate salaries for the men in charge of building and running a team. Therefore, it will take luck for this team to ever turn around again - or, it will be in spite of Wilson, and not because of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis in NC Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Does he make the best decisions as far as hiring the right people? No... You gotta start from the heart and then judge the decision in my opinion... Start with Ralph Wilson's heart, you mean? It would probably look like the heart of Old Man Potter, who owns most of Bedford Falls and let's his subjects live there. Just as Bills fans are allowed to attend football games featuring their hometown team. Like Mr Potter, Mr Wilson does not maintain these shacks, just keeps a marginal 4 walls and a roof. I wonder how many players the Bills would have if they were not required to keep a roster of 53. And when George Bailey says "I wish I'd never been born a Bills fan!", it's time for Clarence the Angel to step in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 They will be the only team in the NFL that has failed to reach at least 8-8 since the end of the 2004 season. They are now arguably the worst franchise in the league. assuming? Its assuming that we win one more game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuSeYiN1978 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Thank you for offering a fresh take on the subject of Ralph Wilson. Most of me would like to simply agree that the old man loves this team, put his heart and soul into it, and just can't run it anymore, and has nobody to run it for him that is interested in ANYTHING OTHER THAN KEEPING IT AS PROFITABLE AS POSSIBLE! That is why I've wondered if it isn't really a coorporation approach, where any and all sacrifices must be made to maximize profit. I don't think there are too many instances in life where things are clearly black and white. I'm sure much of what you said has merit. However, Ralph has had this similar pattern for much of his life, during times of vigor and lucidity. He got lucky with Polian, Butler, Marv and Company., and quickly destroyed the Franchise that was so much to the Bills community over what now seems like nothing - in terms of Management Salary. I mean, if it weren't for his relentless mentality that dictates "You don't need rocket scientists, and you don't need to pay guys millions of dollars to run a football team that any high school coach worth his salt could run successfully", then we wouldn't be in this mess - at least not for so long. He just refuses to pay what the league has established as legitimate salaries for the men in charge of building and running a team. Therefore, it will take luck for this team to ever turn around again - or, it will be in spite of Wilson, and not because of him. See... The human part of my brain says you're right and the fan in me wishes you're wrong... Let it be luck or let it be anything else, we're still fans and every year we wanna reach success just like any other team. I understand Ralph may be cheap and this guy cant draft or that guy can't coach. What i also know is that the guys we DO have on the team don't wanna lose. I haven't really seen humility in the players faces like I've wanted to, but I'm just hoping that that's just them trying to keep their own heads leveled. I love Fred Jackson for the simple fact that he shows his expression on his face. I've never been one to mask my emotions and I felt and still feel that the Bills represent the type of guy that I am. Underdogs without much to lose and everything to gain but the only difference is that their hopes and dreams are right there for the taking come every Sunday yet they let us down... That's where the frustration as a fan comes in... I understand when your oponent is more talented than you that it will take close to a miracle to win but also as a believer in history and a believer in God, the story of David and Goliath and countless other military wars where the odds were against people, they strategically overcame and the so called underdog beat the favorite... We really do need to bulk up and more talent... I just hope one day we'll make the playoffs... Idc about superbowls like the players say they play for... Reaching it and winning it is great but Idk what it feels like to be in the playoffs anymore... That's really all I want... Get us to the playoffs and have us in the hunt for the playoffs year after year like all the great teams in this league and if we miss a year here and there we won't be as miserable... At least I think we won't... Then again we've gotten our hearts broken so many times that sometimes it takes more than just a simple apology or in the Bills case a "single" playoff appearance to right all the wrongs... It's just tough to be us but we're still here and I doubt with the love we have that we'll be going anywhere as fans... If there are some that decide they don't wanna follow the Bills anymore i clearly understand but it's also good they left cuz I don't want those guys as fans anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I don't think there are too many instances in life where things are clearly black and white. This could be the smartest thing ever said on TBD. /close thread, shut down TBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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