To all of the people who think we need to draft a Franchise QB

[playman]

This team made a huge mistake by not drafting a QB and letting him develop in this last draft.

 

wrong

 

the draft wasnt one filled with qb talent. yeah, dalton plays great, but thats pretty much it.

 

upcoming draft is a whole different story though. and id be pretty upset if they dont draft one come april

[cjbills69]

Before I get started just wanted to say I've been reading these boards for awhile and I'm very happy to have found a place to discuss the Bills with fellow fans. I am in my mid 20s and have been following drafts closely since 1998. My conclusions about all the qbs drafted since 1998 lead me to believe that many of you are approaching this topic all wrong. Would a franchise QB slove a lot of our problems? You bet. But you've been asking the wrong question all along when defining a franchise QB. For bills fans the question should be how many QBS in the NFL today could come into Buffalo without any other on field changes and win football games. I count 6 since 1998. That's right only 6. Both Mannings, Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben and Brees. And two of those guys weren't even first rounders. So 4 first rounders in 13 years. Sure some of you may place a few more names in but not very many. What the bills need to do is increase talent across the board. After all take a look at the number of teams with iffy qbs in this years playoff hunt. Sanchez, Flacco, Smith, Tebow, Hasselbeck, Dalton. These guys are all asked to do little more than manage a ballgame, something Fitz would be more than capable of given good talent around him. Teams win games, that's how Hasselback and Grossman and Delhomme have made recent Super Bowls. And Guys like Cassel, Garrad, Jeff Garcia and Jake Plummef and Todf Collins have all been playoff qbs going back 5 or 6 years. No drafted QB will succeed in Buffalo as it is currently constructed. Fitz is good enough to win games if given adequate talent. Lets do that and then worry about a QB. Thanks for reading my first post happy to be on board

Very good post!

[ny33]

If selling the farm means trading picks that end up being Spiller, Troup, Maybin or a bunch of other guys that aren't successful here, I'll gladly do it. 2004 was the classic example. We didn't want to give up enough to move ahead of Pittsburgh and take Roethlisberger, who would have been the perfect QB for Buffalo. Who did those picks we cherished so much net us?

 

It's always too early to tell with this franchise, but I do think management has realized that flashy, skill position players aren't where this team should be drafting in early rounds. I say this as an advocate of drafting a WR, but with the caveat that we should go for a big WR who can grab jump balls (the last thing we need is a DeSean Jackson type player). Buffalo has drafted poorly in recent years, but I think we will continue last year's trend of drafting physical players from successful programs.

 

Don't be surprised, either, if we draft a defensive lineman again with the top pick. If Buffalo goes back to a 4-3, I like the idea of Dwan Edwards, Dareus, Kyle Williams, and a guy like Dontari Poe in the middle (with Edwards at end) or Quinton Coples at end with Edwards or Heard in the middle. Either way, we should draft front seven, Dre Kirkpatrick, or Alshon Jeffery with our pick. RG3 would be worth a very hard look, but I don't think he or Barkley will be available.

[robert cohen]

That's interesting how you mention time, given that Fitzpatrick has had almost no time to throw the ball and let plays develop. On top of that, Sanchez makes as many mistakes as Fitzpatrick, and messes up quite a few throws. Also, besides the problems on the offensive line, our receiving corps has been decimated, and there's little talent besides SJ and Nelson (in a possession role). It's absolutely unfair to say that Fitzpatrick can't have the level of playoff success as a guy like Sanchez, Dilfer, or numerous other average QBs who have relied on great defense and a running game. Give Fitz another year, add some weapons around him, and improve the defense. If he can't make the playoffs with that, then draft a first round QB. It's amazing how impatient people are, as frustrating as this team can be to follow.

to get a franchise QB u normally need to be a top 3 or 4 pick.. this is a VERY rare yr that there are 3 super kids out there and possibly a 4th depending on how u fell about jones. "time"... our line is not a bad pass protecting line and all our passes are like 2 step drops and he misses guys BAD and short dinky routes... no weapons?? we have a 6'7 TE in chandler who should be doing even better if they started throwing a few seam routes over the middle rather than just looking for him in red zone.. he has made some really nice catches over middle. Nelson is a very solid slot guy and a guy to move chains.. fitz is ALWAYS high or low on throws and very rarely hits guys in stride.. he gets his passes knocked down at the line 2-3 times a game. this is just reality and not being a homer. did u see how badly he missed haggan last week?? haggan had the DB beaten by 10 yards.. the bad was so underthrown that the DB had time to not only catch up, but make a play on ball. fitz would be the perfect mentor for a rookie QB and teach him the offense. u cant keep saying next yr for a QB. this is by far best draft class is yrs for QB's and this yr has proven that rookie QB's can produce right away and with gaileys system, it will be alot easier to succeed cuz its based on 1-2 reads rather than scanning whole field. they would be nuts not to make a QB in we can get RG3 or barkley... cuz most yrs, those guys would be gone by top 3 picks.. these guys all are better than stafford, bradford, alex smith, david carr coming out of college and they were all #1 overall picks.. no matter what this will be a better team next yr and we will not have a chance to draft a stud QB next yr

[ny33]

to get a franchise QB u normally need to be a top 3 or 4 pick.. this is a VERY rare yr that there are 3 super kids out there and possibly a 4th depending on how u fell about jones. "time"... our line is not a bad pass protecting line and all our passes are like 2 step drops and he misses guys BAD and short dinky routes... no weapons?? we have a 6'7 TE in chandler who should be doing even better if they started throwing a few seam routes over the middle rather than just looking for him in red zone.. he has made some really nice catches over middle. Nelson is a very solid slot guy and a guy to move chains.. fitz is ALWAYS high or low on throws and very rarely hits guys in stride.. he gets his passes knocked down at the line 2-3 times a game. this is just reality and not being a homer. did u see how badly he missed haggan last week?? haggan had the DB beaten by 10 yards.. the bad was so underthrown that the DB had time to not only catch up, but make a play on ball. fitz would be the perfect mentor for a rookie QB and teach him the offense. u cant keep saying next yr for a QB. this is by far best draft class is yrs for QB's and this yr has proven that rookie QB's can produce right away and with gaileys system, it will be alot easier to succeed cuz its based on 1-2 reads rather than scanning whole field. they would be nuts not to make a QB in we can get RG3 or barkley... cuz most yrs, those guys would be gone by top 3 picks.. these guys all are better than stafford, bradford, alex smith, david carr coming out of college and they were all #1 overall picks.. no matter what this will be a better team next yr and we will not have a chance to draft a stud QB next yr

 

I'm not disagreeing that the top three guys are worth a look. My point is that we likely- especially given their talent, as you have mentioned- won't be around, with Cleveland, Washington, Miami, and Kansas City all likely picking ahead of us. What I'm saying is that taking a guy like Landry Jones is panicking and not worth it. He's had five picks and zero TDs in his last three games; that's terrible.

 

As for the weapons, I agree Nelson is a solid slot guy. Chandler is a good third down and end zone weapon, but he doesn't have the skills to become a Gronkowski/Witten; that being said, I am content with keeping him and Nelson. There's no question that Fitz, particularly recently, has started missing a lot of throws he has no excuse to mess up. I don't have a link for you, but there have been a number of articles detailing the fact that Fitzpatrick has far less time to throw the ball than most offensive lines, and our early season success throwing the football was partially predicated on his quick release.

 

If we were drafting third and had to decide between Matt Barkley and Matt Kalil (assuming Luck and Blackmon were drafted), I'd take Barkley. Given our current position, though- and the fact that I think we beat Miami to finish 6-10 this season- the Bills may have other teams make the decision easy for them. Again, despite Fitz's errors, I think it is ludicrous to give up on him before at least the end of next season.

[#34fan]

Before I get started just wanted to say I've been reading these boards for awhile and I'm very happy to have found a place to discuss the Bills with fellow fans. I am in my mid 20s and have been following drafts closely since 1998. My conclusions about all the qbs drafted since 1998 lead me to believe that many of you are approaching this topic all wrong. Would a franchise QB slove a lot of our problems? You bet. But you've been asking the wrong question all along when defining a franchise QB. For bills fans the question should be how many QBS in the NFL today could come into Buffalo without any other on field changes and win football games. I count 6 since 1998. That's right only 6. Both Mannings, Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben and Brees. And two of those guys weren't even first rounders. So 4 first rounders in 13 years. Sure some of you may place a few more names in but not very many. What the bills need to do is increase talent across the board. After all take a look at the number of teams with iffy qbs in this years playoff hunt. Sanchez, Flacco, Smith, Tebow, Hasselbeck, Dalton. These guys are all asked to do little more than manage a ballgame, something Fitz would be more than capable of given good talent around him. Teams win games, that's how Hasselback and Grossman and Delhomme have made recent Super Bowls. And Guys like Cassel, Garrad, Jeff Garcia and Jake Plummef and Todf Collins have all been playoff qbs going back 5 or 6 years. No drafted QB will succeed in Buffalo as it is currently constructed. Fitz is good enough to win games if given adequate talent. Lets do that and then worry about a QB. Thanks for reading my first post happy to be on board

 

 

Right. So we build this awesome defense, and fortify Fitz's O-line with Norse gods. Great. Now, who's gonna put points on the board? How long before this great defense gets discouraged by the fact that no matter how hard they try, our offense won't score? How long before this awesome O-line realizes that no matter how much time Fitz has, he will still throw interceptions, or BAD incompletions? I respect what the OP has to say, but I've seen Fitz play up close. I've seen other QB's up close too. Fitz is terrible at just about everything. The guy has had seven years, and three teams to prove everyone wrong, but he hasn't risen to the occaision. I don't think this team's failure is totally Fitz's fault. Lousy management, and poor coaching should be addressed too. Both of those, unfortunately fall under the umbrella of bad ownership. -A constant spectre for this team. So what do we do now? Keep the fans interested, that's what. Do all the other things you mention, but draft a young QB prospect no later than round two. For all his experience Fitzpatrick has become a "white flag" wherever he goes. You can't make that the face of a franchise. He should be released at the end of the season.

[BADOLBILZ]

Your case has been made by others many times over the years. The problem with your theory is the underlying assumption that "gambling on a QB" will come at the expense of a slam-dunk elite pass-rusher or whoever. That is just not reality.

 

Precisely! That is why you do not draft for need.

 

As for the OP's point about not needing the best quality you can get at QB................the simple fact is that the most impactful position on the entire team is the QB. And it is not even close. I am all for drafting big, fast, tough players but even then I do not pass on the potential star QB.

 

Can you compete without one? Sure, but the perennial favorites are the teams with the Mannings, Rodgers, Big Ben and Brees. That's where you want to be. Not on the outside looking in like all the second set of QB's he categorizes as game managers.

 

I know we have low standards here, but if you aren't a serious threat to win the Super Bowl you aren't where you need to be.

[corey g]

Right. So we build this awesome defense, and fortify Fitz's O-line with Norse gods. Great. Now, who's gonna put points on the board? How long before this great defense gets discouraged by the fact that no matter how hard they try, our offense won't score? How long before this awesome O-line realizes that no matter how much time Fitz has, he will still throw interceptions, or BAD incompletions? I respect what the OP has to say, but I've seen Fitz play up close. I've seen other QB's up close too. Fitz is terrible at just about everything. The guy has had seven years, and three teams to prove everyone wrong, but he hasn't risen to the occaision. I don't think this team's failure is totally Fitz's fault. Lousy management, and poor coaching should be addressed too. Both of those, unfortunately fall under the umbrella of bad ownership. -A constant spectre for this team. So what do we do now? Keep the fans interested, that's what. Do all the other things you mention, but draft a young QB prospect no later than round two. For all his experience Fitzpatrick has become a "white flag" wherever he goes. You can't make that the face of a franchise. He should be released at the end of the season.

 

Very reactionary as well ad reaching illogical conclusions here. Is fits the QB for 10 years absolutely not. Does he make head starching mistakes you betcha. Is he better than anyone in Buffalo since Flutie, yup. And your missing the bigger picture NO QB that the Bills draft could flourish with this roster. NONE period, we have starters that we be practice squad players anywhere else. Get better overall talent, thus putting a QB we draft maybe 2 years from now in a better position to succeed. It's a QB driven league sure, but complete teams win titles

[K-9]

Very reactionary as well ad reaching illogical conclusions here. Is fits the QB for 10 years absolutely not. Does he make head starching mistakes you betcha. Is he better than anyone in Buffalo since Flutie, yup. And your missing the bigger picture NO QB that the Bills draft could flourish with this roster. NONE period, we have starters that we be practice squad players anywhere else. Get better overall talent, thus putting a QB we draft maybe 2 years from now in a better position to succeed. It's a QB driven league sure, but complete teams win titles

 

Building a team is not a linear process. If you feel like you don't have a blue-chip, franchise QB and you have a chance to get one in the draft, you take him. No questions asked. You don't pass on that kind of player because you're worried the surrounding pieces aren't in place yet. You take the best players whenever you can and if that player so happens to be a franchise QB, then so much the better.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited December 16, 2011 by K-9

[corey g]

Building a team is not a linear process. If you feel like you don't have a blue-chip, franchise QB and you have a chance to get one in the draft, you take him. No questions asked. You don't pass on that kind of player because you're worried the surrounding pieces aren't in place yet. You take the best players whenever you can and if that player so happens to be a franchise QB, then so much the better.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Well said here, except I don't see a franchise QB being available to us. And some fans, though not yourself want to see a QB taken no matter what. That is wrong, best player available, regardless of position is the way to go as you said

[K-9]

Well said here, except I don't see a franchise QB being available to us. And some fans, though not yourself want to see a QB taken no matter what. That is wrong, best player available, regardless of position is the way to go as you said

 

It's like I always say, playmaker is ALWAYS a position of need. This team is way short of playmakers. Take the best player and you usually add a playmaker.

 

I don't know if a franchise QB will be available either. If the Bills think there is then I fully expect them to take him. If not, I'm more than happy with Fitz manning the reigns in the meantime. We can do a LOT worse than Fitz as we continue to add playmakers and build a better team around him.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[12Kachy]

I agree that you start with a QB. That's what Indy did, and they did it to perfection. The thing most don't understand, however, is that we're not starting right now. We're halfway there and to "start" with a QB would set us back again. Build talent to win with Fitz. Then upgrade Fitz with a rookie with enough talent around him not to set us back 3 more years.

 

Sounds like a plan. Draft 5 1st round OL, and a bunch of WRs that are 6'2 230 and have stickem poured on their hands. Also draft a couple of gang members to shoot the def CBs and then Fitz will be a winner.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I think that it is possible to move to the 5th overall pick in Rd#1 if Buffalo loses out and certain teams currently above Buffalo win a game or two. If that happened Buffalo will be in a position to draft either the kid from SO. CA. if he declares or RD3. Buffalo may have to trade up a pick or two and spend a second rounder but, if so, I think they should do it.

 

This is a QB driven league. The best teams in it have the best QBs; Patriots, Saints, Steelers, Colts (with Manning) Giants, etc. This doesn't appear to be a good year for top flight outside LBs, certainly none that at the moment, would appear to qualify as a top ten pick. It could be argued that there are no OLBs that merit an early 2nd rd. pick. If Buffalo Picks 5 this year, we may not be in this position again for many years.

 

Buffalo could stand pat with Fitz and try to build around him but to do so, I think, would make Buffalo a team that may become good enough to make the playoffs but not quite good enough to win the SB. I think Buddy should seize the opportunity if available at #5 and get that franchise QB.

Wow.

 

Two virgins in one thread.

 

Good post by Corey G and yourself. Strong debuts.

 

There's a lot of good points made in this thread but what it all comes down to is who is available when we pick.

 

Throughout 3 pages, there's more agreement than disagreement.

 

If there's a highly graded QB (from a historical, not draft class perspective) available, you can't pass him up… even if he sits and learns for a year.

 

If such a QB is not available when the Bills pick, you take the best player available at a position of need. There's a growing sentiment that this is not a good year for pass rushers. Also, USC OT Matt Kahlil just declared for the draft today. Some players will rise and some will fall because it's so early. Too early to say anything definitive.

 

It's too bad we've developed our draft discussions so deeply in mid-December. Last year at this time, there was a lot less draft talk. Kinda sad.

 

 

 

 

[Estelle Getty]

No drafted QB will succeed in Buffalo as it is currently constructed.

Not here to argue, but I watched the Pats replay on NFL network and couldn't help but think that the Pats are only a few players better than us.I know, I Know, I must be on crack to say such things. Take a look at the replay, they couldn't stop the Skins(who we shut out). They have no running game and no deep threat for Crists sake and that Oline needs help. The only major difference I see is Brady (the obvious one)and the 2 TE's(esp. Gronk)that make up for the lack of deep speed. But really, Brady is what makes them run right now. Without him the Pats are the Colts part II. This team would run so much better with a franchise QB, but since theres only 5 or so of them out ther, I agree, keep building this team. I think I'm gonna like what I see next season.

 

Coaching?

[Yard Monkey]

I agree that you start with a QB. That's what Indy did, and they did it to perfection. The thing most don't understand, however, is that we're not starting right now. We're halfway there and to "start" with a QB would set us back again. Build talent to win with Fitz. Then upgrade Fitz with a rookie with enough talent around him not to set us back 3 more years.

So did San Diego that year dipshit. How'd that work for them. Don't make it overly simplistic or anything....geeezus

[Mark80]

Before I get started just wanted to say I've been reading these boards for awhile and I'm very happy to have found a place to discuss the Bills with fellow fans. I am in my mid 20s and have been following drafts closely since 1998. My conclusions about all the qbs drafted since 1998 lead me to believe that many of you are approaching this topic all wrong. Would a franchise QB slove a lot of our problems? You bet. But you've been asking the wrong question all along when defining a franchise QB. For bills fans the question should be how many QBS in the NFL today could come into Buffalo without any other on field changes and win football games. I count 6 since 1998. That's right only 6. Both Mannings, Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben and Brees. And two of those guys weren't even first rounders. So 4 first rounders in 13 years. Sure some of you may place a few more names in but not very many. What the bills need to do is increase talent across the board. After all take a look at the number of teams with iffy qbs in this years playoff hunt. Sanchez, Flacco, Smith, Tebow, Hasselbeck, Dalton. These guys are all asked to do little more than manage a ballgame, something Fitz would be more than capable of given good talent around him. Teams win games, that's how Hasselback and Grossman and Delhomme have made recent Super Bowls. And Guys like Cassel, Garrad, Jeff Garcia and Jake Plummef and Todf Collins have all been playoff qbs going back 5 or 6 years. No drafted QB will succeed in Buffalo as it is currently constructed. Fitz is good enough to win games if given adequate talent. Lets do that and then worry about a QB. Thanks for reading my first post happy to be on board

 

Those guys you mention are the only S.B winning QBs since 2003. I'd say that's the most important part of a SB winning team, wouldn't you? Fitz is not one of these guys. He may get us to the playoffs, sure, but SB championship? I don't think so. Draft a QB and keep doing it until you find the right one.

[Stenbar]

Before I get started just wanted to say I've been reading these boards for awhile and I'm very happy to have found a place to discuss the Bills with fellow fans. I am in my mid 20s and have been following drafts closely since 1998. My conclusions about all the qbs drafted since 1998 lead me to believe that many of you are approaching this topic all wrong. Would a franchise QB slove a lot of our problems? You bet. But you've been asking the wrong question all along when defining a franchise QB. For bills fans the question should be how many QBS in the NFL today could come into Buffalo without any other on field changes and win football games. I count 6 since 1998. That's right only 6. Both Mannings, Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben and Brees. And two of those guys weren't even first rounders. So 4 first rounders in 13 years. Sure some of you may place a few more names in but not very many. What the bills need to do is increase talent across the board. After all take a look at the number of teams with iffy qbs in this years playoff hunt. Sanchez, Flacco, Smith, Tebow, Hasselbeck, Dalton. These guys are all asked to do little more than manage a ballgame, something Fitz would be more than capable of given good talent around him. Teams win games, that's how Hasselback and Grossman and Delhomme have made recent Super Bowls. And Guys like Cassel, Garrad, Jeff Garcia and Jake Plummef and Todf Collins have all been playoff qbs going back 5 or 6 years. No drafted QB will succeed in Buffalo as it is currently constructed. Fitz is good enough to win games if given adequate talent. Lets do that and then worry about a QB. Thanks for reading my first post happy to be on board

The problem isnt the drafting of a Franchise qb or the next Thurman Thomas or any good player for that matter, the problem is that the front office doesnt pick any player that will come in and upgrade an area of need at any point. The only player they have chosen in the past 5 years for that matter was Dareus and if they hadnt picked him they might have been stoned by all football intelligent people in the planet. They pick some off the wall project to try and prove to everyone else they know more than them and they fall flat on theyre face doing so..Its like they are trying to prove how stupid they can be instead of just making an intelligent pick that will help the team....Common sense alludes(sp) the decision maker at all times....

[Orton's Arm]

The problem isnt the drafting of a Franchise qb or the next Thurman Thomas or any good player for that matter, the problem is that the front office doesnt pick any player that will come in and upgrade an area of need at any point. The only player they have chosen in the past 5 years for that matter was Dareus and if they hadnt picked him they might have been stoned by all football intelligent people in the planet. They pick some off the wall project to try and prove to everyone else they know more than them and they fall flat on theyre face doing so..Its like they are trying to prove how stupid they can be instead of just making an intelligent pick that will help the team....Common sense alludes(sp) the decision maker at all times....

I agree that the Bills have tended to squander their early picks on luxury players such as RBs while eschewing better players who could have filled genuine needs.

 

One vey minor note: to allude to something is to refer to it, to elude something is to dodge or avoid it. The word you were looking for in that last sentence was elude.

[Stenbar]

I agree that the Bills have tended to squander their early picks on luxury players such as RBs while eschewing better players who could have filled genuine needs.

 

One vey minor note: to allude to something is to refer to it, to elude something is to dodge or avoid it. The word you were looking for in that last sentence was elude.

Thank you for the lesson. Captain Caveman education here..lol

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I get it believe me, but why are you acting like a Franchise guy is so easy to find 6 in 13 years!! And all those guys have awesome defenses to win SBs except for Peyton. Ben didn't break 150 yardage wise in his first SB. Get the picture?

didn't say it would be easy it just hast to be done. My Guy is Ryan Tannehill who has all the tools necessary to be the franchise QB and we should be able to get him in the second.