corey g Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Before I get started just wanted to say I've been reading these boards for awhile and I'm very happy to have found a place to discuss the Bills with fellow fans. I am in my mid 20s and have been following drafts closely since 1998. My conclusions about all the qbs drafted since 1998 lead me to believe that many of you are approaching this topic all wrong. Would a franchise QB slove a lot of our problems? You bet. But you've been asking the wrong question all along when defining a franchise QB. For bills fans the question should be how many QBS in the NFL today could come into Buffalo without any other on field changes and win football games. I count 6 since 1998. That's right only 6. Both Mannings, Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben and Brees. And two of those guys weren't even first rounders. So 4 first rounders in 13 years. Sure some of you may place a few more names in but not very many. What the bills need to do is increase talent across the board. After all take a look at the number of teams with iffy qbs in this years playoff hunt. Sanchez, Flacco, Smith, Tebow, Hasselbeck, Dalton. These guys are all asked to do little more than manage a ballgame, something Fitz would be more than capable of given good talent around him. Teams win games, that's how Hasselback and Grossman and Delhomme have made recent Super Bowls. And Guys like Cassel, Garrad, Jeff Garcia and Jake Plummef and Todf Collins have all been playoff qbs going back 5 or 6 years. No drafted QB will succeed in Buffalo as it is currently constructed. Fitz is good enough to win games if given adequate talent. Lets do that and then worry about a QB. Thanks for reading my first post happy to be on board
mrags Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 It's a good post. Many of us feel this way and the other half or so still believe you start with a QB. It's a tough sell around here. Either way there's truth to either argument. You can't start to build your team until you have the most important piece, or you can always build the rest of the team and then add the QB to be the finishing piece. The QB first argument at least gives the team and fans a building block. It's something any other position can give, but with the QB it's more important since he is the leader and face of any franchise. Rough go either way. I personally agree with you, it's much easier to build an average to above average team capable of being competitive enough for a playoff run (our team now if health issues hadn't killed us) but with enough depth to overcome injuries (where many feel were headed) and then add the franchise guy. In the meantime Fitz can play well enough to win games. He was a pro bowl candidate when all his OL and starting WRs were in there earlier this year.
BuffaloBaumer Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Bills don't keep enough of their good players Free agency will NEVER be a factor as long as Ralph is owner Take a look at the QBs on just about ALL the teams that have made the playoffs the last few years This team has made the playoffs ONCE since JIM KELLY retired - ONCE This team NEEDS a franchise QB more than any other team in the league and until they address it, they will continue to miss the playoffs year after year after year. I don't care if this team misses the playoffs the next 2 years in a row as long as you can see they are building something. Get a QB any way possible and stockpile the lines. Enough is enough already with this clueless organization.
Toshiero Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 This team made a huge mistake by not drafting a QB and letting him develop in this last draft.
Dopey Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Before I get started just wanted to say I've been reading these boards for awhile and I'm very happy to have found a place to discuss the Bills with fellow fans. I am in my mid 20s and have been following drafts closely since 1998. My conclusions about all the qbs drafted since 1998 lead me to believe that many of you are approaching this topic all wrong. Would a franchise QB slove a lot of our problems? You bet. But you've been asking the wrong question all along when defining a franchise QB. For bills fans the question should be how many QBS in the NFL today could come into Buffalo without any other on field changes and win football games. I count 6 since 1998. That's right only 6. Both Mannings, Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben and Brees. And two of those guys weren't even first rounders. So 4 first rounders in 13 years. Sure some of you may place a few more names in but not very many. What the bills need to do is increase talent across the board. After all take a look at the number of teams with iffy qbs in this years playoff hunt. Sanchez, Flacco, Smith, Tebow, Hasselbeck, Dalton. These guys are all asked to do little more than manage a ballgame, something Fitz would be more than capable of given good talent around him. Teams win games, that's how Hasselback and Grossman and Delhomme have made recent Super Bowls. And Guys like Cassel, Garrad, Jeff Garcia and Jake Plummef and Todf Collins have all been playoff qbs going back 5 or 6 years. No drafted QB will succeed in Buffalo as it is currently constructed. Fitz is good enough to win games if given adequate talent. Lets do that and then worry about a QB. Thanks for reading my first post happy to be on board No drafted QB will succeed in Buffalo as it is currently constructed. Not here to argue, but I watched the Pats replay on NFL network and couldn't help but think that the Pats are only a few players better than us.I know, I Know, I must be on crack to say such things. Take a look at the replay, they couldn't stop the Skins(who we shut out). They have no running game and no deep threat for Crists sake and that Oline needs help. The only major difference I see is Brady (the obvious one)and the 2 TE's(esp. Gronk)that make up for the lack of deep speed. But really, Brady is what makes them run right now. Without him the Pats are the Colts part II. This team would run so much better with a franchise QB, but since theres only 5 or so of them out ther, I agree, keep building this team. I think I'm gonna like what I see next season.
BringBackFlutie Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 It's a good post. Many of us feel this way and the other half or so still believe you start with a QB. It's a tough sell around here. Either way there's truth to either argument. You can't start to build your team until you have the most important piece, or you can always build the rest of the team and then add the QB to be the finishing piece. The QB first argument at least gives the team and fans a building block. It's something any other position can give, but with the QB it's more important since he is the leader and face of any franchise. Rough go either way. I personally agree with you, it's much easier to build an average to above average team capable of being competitive enough for a playoff run (our team now if health issues hadn't killed us) but with enough depth to overcome injuries (where many feel were headed) and then add the franchise guy. In the meantime Fitz can play well enough to win games. He was a pro bowl candidate when all his OL and starting WRs were in there earlier this year. I agree that you start with a QB. That's what Indy did, and they did it to perfection. The thing most don't understand, however, is that we're not starting right now. We're halfway there and to "start" with a QB would set us back again. Build talent to win with Fitz. Then upgrade Fitz with a rookie with enough talent around him not to set us back 3 more years.
corey g Posted December 15, 2011 Author Posted December 15, 2011 Thanks to both of you for your replies. But BuffaloBaumer I understand your frustration and share it. But do you honestly believe that this team can even develop a QB prospect right now? With Donald Jones as a 2 receiver and no defense? I know you would like to see the effort but if our overall talent doesn't improve I believe any drafted QB will fail. Let's draft Fitz a legit 2 receiver and some OLBs on D and see where it goes in my opinion Surely this team would function better with a Brady under center but I'm glad you realize they don't grow on trees
BringBackFlutie Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Bills don't keep enough of their good players Free agency will NEVER be a factor as long as Ralph is owner Take a look at the QBs on just about ALL the teams that have made the playoffs the last few years This team has made the playoffs ONCE since JIM KELLY retired - ONCE This team NEEDS a franchise QB more than any other team in the league and until they address it, they will continue to miss the playoffs year after year after year. I don't care if this team misses the playoffs the next 2 years in a row as long as you can see they are building something. Get a QB any way possible and stockpile the lines. Enough is enough already with this clueless organization. Two actually, but I see your point. So building something is predicated only on a QB? Or we can keep building to your standards for two years but then we'll make it once we draft a QB? I guess I just don't get it- at what point are we getting the QB so that we can go to the playoffs in two years? What if we make it in one year without a QB? Will you be upset?
tennesseeboy Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 We may need to draft a qb, but we have so many other more compelling needs and we did just sign Fitz to a huge contract. If we have a top three pick I can see not passing up on Luck or Griffin, but if they go before we pick I think we have to go for one of our weak spots on defense with the first pick. We might kick back a few notches into the high teens and get someo ne like Case Keenumor some other second tier qb depending on how they do at the Senior Bowl or the bowl games...but even then I'm worried that the defense just has too many needs to go for a qb right now.
mountainwampus Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 the Pats are only a few players better than us.I know, I Know, I must be on crack to say such things. I agree with this. The Pats are lower than they've been in 10 years and their defense might be the worst in the entire NFL. On the other hand, I feel the Jets are only a few players away from being a Super Bowl contender.
corey g Posted December 15, 2011 Author Posted December 15, 2011 If we could find a Brady yes, but i'm glad you got my point. Not easy to find a Brady
BuffOrange Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Your case has been made by others many times over the years. The problem with your theory is the underlying assumption that "gambling on a QB" will come at the expense of a slam-dunk elite pass-rusher or whoever. That is just not reality. The need for a good QB isn't why the Bills have foolishly drafted RB's and DB's in the first round. The best point you can make is that we could've had Demarcus Ware instead of trading up for Losman; but even that has more to do with a simple bad evaluation of talent.
BuffaloBaumer Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Thanks to both of you for your replies. But BuffaloBaumer I understand your frustration and share it. But do you honestly believe that this team can even develop a QB prospect right now? With Donald Jones as a 2 receiver and no defense? I know you would like to see the effort but if our overall talent doesn't improve I believe any drafted QB will fail. Let's draft Fitz a legit 2 receiver and some OLBs on D and see where it goes in my opinion Surely this team would function better with a Brady under center but I'm glad you realize they don't grow on trees They should do whatever it takes to get one of the top 3 QBs but they won't because Chan's job is on the line. What they should do is attempt to get either Barkley or Griffin and sit him for a year. The QB does not even need to start next year or the next for all I care. The only other constant in this organization besides crappy owner is lack of QB.
KollegeStudnet Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) Teams win games, that's how Hasselback and Grossman and Delhomme have made recent Super Bowls. And Guys like Cassel, Garrad, Jeff Garcia and Jake Plummef and Todf Collins have all been playoff qbs going back 5 or 6 years. No drafted QB will succeed in Buffalo as it is currently constructed. Fitz is good enough to win games if given adequate talent. Lets do that and then worry about a QB. Thanks for reading my first post happy to be on board Congrats on your first post bud! I understand your post, but those bolded lost their respective Super Bowls, are lite on playoff starts and the majority of the guys listed above have been and/or will be mothballed in 2012. The examples I'm about to display are guys who were drafted and developed within their respective systems...It is also important to note, that the majority of the guys listed above have been beaten by the majority of the guys listed below in the playoffs/Super Bowl. Example of teams that WIN...based on the development of a QB: Peyton developed in the system Eli developed in the system Brady developed in the system Romo developed in the system Roethlisberger developed in the system Matt Ryan developed in the system Stafford developed in the system Rodgers developed in the system ...I could go on But, it goes to show developing a QB is essential in today's game. Dating back to Todd Collins departure, the Buffalo Bills have been blinded by the utilizing the retread trend, using a platoon of mediocre QBs to win games. It is important to note, that most of these mediocre QBs were from other teams--with the exception of JP Losman. Sadly, the last QBs to lead this team into the playoffs were Flutie and Johnson. I've been on the bandwagon for sometime, just wanting a QB of which we could develop. As history stands, the Buffalo Bills have drafted a QB twice in their 52 year existence. F$tzmonies has done a great job, but I do not see him starting on this team this time next season! The time to develop a QB who is a decent prospect should begin in the 2012 draft. Teams that win championships groom their players--this Buffalo Bills team hasn't--However, they are trying with the Chix regime! Edited December 15, 2011 by KollegeStudnet
corey g Posted December 15, 2011 Author Posted December 15, 2011 I never said that the guy we take instead of a QB is a slam dunk. The whole draft is a gamble. I understand that, but qbs the caliber of Fitz are on current playoff teams, I am merely suggesting we attempt to build around Fitz. If it doesn't work we are screwed because as I said no QB coming out of the draft could win in Buffalo with the current roster
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Sadly, the last QBs to lead this team into the playoffs were Flutie and Johnson. Nice post, KS… but Rob Johnson never led the Bills to the playoffs. Flutie however did so twice.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Before I get started just wanted to say I've been reading these boards for awhile and I'm very happy to have found a place to discuss the Bills with fellow fans. I am in my mid 20s and have been following drafts closely since 1998. My conclusions about all the qbs drafted since 1998 lead me to believe that many of you are approaching this topic all wrong. Would a franchise QB slove a lot of our problems? You bet. But you've been asking the wrong question all along when defining a franchise QB. For bills fans the question should be how many QBS in the NFL today could come into Buffalo without any other on field changes and win football games. I count 6 since 1998. That's right only 6. Both Mannings, Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben and Brees. And two of those guys weren't even first rounders. So 4 first rounders in 13 years. Sure some of you may place a few more names in but not very many. What the bills need to do is increase talent across the board. After all take a look at the number of teams with iffy qbs in this years playoff hunt. Sanchez, Flacco, Smith, Tebow, Hasselbeck, Dalton. These guys are all asked to do little more than manage a ballgame, something Fitz would be more than capable of given good talent around him. Teams win games, that's how Hasselback and Grossman and Delhomme have made recent Super Bowls. And Guys like Cassel, Garrad, Jeff Garcia and Jake Plummef and Todf Collins have all been playoff qbs going back 5 or 6 years. No drafted QB will succeed in Buffalo as it is currently constructed. Fitz is good enough to win games if given adequate talent. Lets do that and then worry about a QB. Thanks for reading my first post happy to be on board Sorry but we need a franchise QB. Those six guys you counted have won most of the superbowls the past decade and we haven't been close to the superbowl since Jim Kelly. Look at the Colts; Peyton Manning playoffs every year, 2 superbowl appearances, one win. No Peyton no wins, getting the picture.
corey g Posted December 15, 2011 Author Posted December 15, 2011 Sorry but we need a franchise QB. Those six guys you counted have won most of the superbowls the past decade and we haven't been close to the superbowl since Jim Kelly. Look at the Colts; Peyton Manning playoffs every year, 2 superbowl appearances, one win. No Peyton no wins, getting the picture. I get it believe me, but why are you acting like a Franchise guy is so easy to find 6 in 13 years!! And all those guys have awesome defenses to win SBs except for Peyton. Ben didn't break 150 yardage wise in his first SB. Get the picture?
BuffaloBaumer Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 I never said that the guy we take instead of a QB is a slam dunk. The whole draft is a gamble. I understand that, but qbs the caliber of Fitz are on current playoff teams, I am merely suggesting we attempt to build around Fitz. If it doesn't work we are screwed because as I said no QB coming out of the draft could win in Buffalo with the current roster Like Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, Ryan, Romo, Brady, Rothlis, Flacco, Schaub, Dalton (if he makes it),
Buckeye Eric Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 But you've been asking the wrong question all along when defining a franchise QB. For bills fans the question should be how many QBS in the NFL today could come into Buffalo without any other on field changes and win football games. I count 6 since 1998. That's right only 6. Both Mannings, Rodgers, Brady, Big Ben and Brees. And two of those guys weren't even first rounders. So 4 first rounders in 13 years. If you count only those that are playing for the team that drafted them the total becomes 2.
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