Fitzpatrick, RG III, 2012 draft

[BobChalmers]

Fitzpatrick is struggling because most of the top playmakers on offense are on IR. The only coaching problem I see is defensive coordinator. If the Bills add some pass rush in the off season and improve depth all around, they will have a very solid team. Did you notice that Fitz's "struggles" coincide with the loss of Jones, Wood and Jackson? Jackson accounted for 40% of the team offense. Its a lot harder for the qb when the pass rush is getting to you, your snaps are off target, the guys who can get open are not on the field, the guys who can make great catches and get yards after the catch aren't on the field. It's not fitz's fault that the 7th string receiver he hit on the hands dropped the ball. Yeah he threw a couple picks but that happens. You normally overcome that by throwing to your playmakers and scoring points. Stevie Johnson is the only threat left and hes getting doubled every play. defenses couldn't do that early in the season. Even Chandler was out last week. Who is Fitz supposed to throw to? Spiller isn't effective enough to help in the lay action game. Its pretty easy to figure out why this season collapsed. IR. no pass rush (the few potential pass rush guys are on IR too but thats the most glaring need for sure.

 

Sorry - I wish that was all of Fitz' problems but it isn't. His throwing accuracy and decisions the past few weeks have been awful.

 

If he isn't playing hurt they need a new QB. Whether draft one this year or next, it needs doing.

 

 

They have a huge hole at 2 OLB spots, and probably WR. Disagree that they are needy for more tham depth at DL, OT, CB.

[PromoTheRobot]

I see no reason why the Bills can't draft a QB, even drafted 1st round. If there is someone Nix and Gailey want we'll get them. With the rookie cap we can afford to groom them under Fitz. One does not preclude the other.

 

PTR

[KOKBILLS]

There are way bigger problems on this team than Fitz...like GEORGE EDWARDS and the lack of WR and LB depth.

 

Agreed...But I'm starting to wonder exactly how far this Team can go building around Fitz...I don't question that they can be a Playoff Team with Fitz at QB if they improve Defensively, stay healthier, and get him WR and more O-Line help...And sure, if everything goes right, he can play lights-out and even win a Playoff Game...But I don't know if he's ever going to be the type of QB that can win 3-4 big Games to get you a SB Championship...And at the end of the day that's the goal (I know...baby steps and all)...I think Fitz is what he is...And it's going to take an exceptional amount of talent around him, and a quite a bit of luck to have a consistent winner while he is the starting QB...

 

In a way, to me at least Fitz is like Flutie...He can take advantage of lesser Defenses and if you're not sound and disciplined he can have a huge day against you...But good Defenses that properly scheme...Defenses understand what he does well, and do whatever they can with discipline to take that away will shut Fitz down almost without exception...He's not bad at all...Just limited...And I would not plan a Franchise around him...For a year or two stop-gap fine...But not long term...Just my opinion...

[Turbosrrgood]

The same things were said about Aaron Maybin. Spiller has looked very very good at times and shown some very special talents, that's why they need to give him the rock 75 times. We aren't going anywhere and Fitzpatrick looks like he's punch drunk throwing the ball. Give CJ the football!!!!

 

I'm not arguing that, now is Spiller's chance to show what he can do...But I'm naturally skeptical as a Bills fan that he can be consistent enough to be a starter.

 

I was just saying I understand why Choice got a few carries, he can at least gain a yard after contact, Spiller can't. I'd love to see Jonny White get a few shots as well. These are basically tryouts for next year at this point.

 

Agreed...But I'm starting to wonder exactly how far this Team can go building around Fitz...I don't question that they can be a Playoff Team with Fitz at QB if they improve Defensively, stay healthier, and get him WR and more O-Line help...And sure, if everything goes right, he can play lights-out and even win a Playoff Game...But I don't know if he's ever going to be the type of QB that can win 3-4 big Games to get you a SB Championship...And at the end of the day that's the goal (I know...baby steps and all)...I think Fitz is what he is...And it's going to take an exceptional amount of talent around him, and a quite a bit of luck to have a consistent winner while he is the starting QB...

 

In a way, to me at least Fitz is like Flutie...He can take advantage of lesser Defenses and if you're not sound and disciplined he can have a huge day against you...But good Defenses that properly scheme...Defenses understand what he does well, and do whatever they can with discipline to take that away will shut Fitz down almost without exception...He's not bad at all...Just limited...And I would not plan a Franchise around him...For a year or two stop-gap fine...But not long term...Just my opinion...

 

I agree with all of that, Id love for the Bills to pick up a good QB prospect. Fitz is good enough where we don't need an immediate starter. I just don't want to trade away picks to get one.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Turbosrrgood

[Bill from NYC]

Agreed...But I'm starting to wonder exactly how far this Team can go building around Fitz...I don't question that they can be a Playoff Team with Fitz at QB if they improve Defensively, stay healthier, and get him WR and more O-Line help...And sure, if everything goes right, he can play lights-out and even win a Playoff Game...But I don't know if he's ever going to be the type of QB that can win 3-4 big Games to get you a SB Championship...And at the end of the day that's the goal (I know...baby steps and all)...I think Fitz is what he is...And it's going to take an exceptional amount of talent around him, and a quite a bit of luck to have a consistent winner while he is the starting QB...

 

In a way, to me at least Fitz is like Flutie...He can take advantage of lesser Defenses and if you're not sound and disciplined he can have a huge day against you...But good Defenses that properly scheme...Defenses understand what he does well, and do whatever they can with discipline to take that away will shut Fitz down almost without exception...He's not bad at all...Just limited...And I would not plan a Franchise around him...For a year or two stop-gap fine...But not long term...Just my opinion...

 

There is nothing in your post to dispute. And I am all about the Bills drafting a qb who they think will be great. But looking at the roster, the hole at OLB is stunning, frightening and embarrassing. Spencer Johnson? Kelsay? One is a marginal backup DT. The other is a worse than average DE. These are our starting OLBs.

 

As for LT, management will either want to keep Bell for big bucks or not. They have liked him for years, but he is small and almost always out or playing injured.

 

Pass rushers and OLTs are the hardest players to draft after qbs. This is a problem for the Bills. The bottom line (for me) is that I hope they devote their earliest picks to these 3 positions. If they focus on dbs and rbs, nothing will change. In fact, they will probably get worse.

[RyanC883]

I laugh when this organization says we don't have depth.....well since we dont have depth why don't we sppend somme of the millions we have under the cap and fix that problem?

 

 

Exactly. "Lack of depth" is no excuse. And not resigning Steve Johnson won't help matters in that regard either. This team will be WORSE next year.

[reddogblitz]

Do yall really think that if we had Robert Griffin III with this WR corps and OLine and no running game and no defense that we would be winning?

 

We need to build around Fitz. He's decent when he's got help. He can't do it himself and neither can any other QB for that matter.

 

We LB, OL, RB, and WR plus a lot of depth to be good. Not another QB that needs time to improve.

 

I know a lot of people say that you have to have a great QB to win SB and there is some truth to that. However, you gotta crawl before you can walk. How about we just try to assemble a team that isn't an embarrassment to the city of buffalo first and then build from there. Fitz can help us get there and beyond IMHO.

 

If Tim Tebow or Blaine Gabbert of Cam Newton was on our team, we'd still be 5-8 or worse.

We need D more than anything else. Don't squander picks on nice to have guys.

Edited December 14, 2011 by reddogblitz

[ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23]

Do yall really think that if we had Robert Griffin III with this WR corps and OLine and no running game and no defense that we would be winning?

 

We need to build around Fitz. He's decent when he's got help. He can't do it himself and neither can any other QB for that matter.

 

We LB, OL, RB, and WR plus a lot of depth to be good. Not another QB that needs time to improve.

 

I know a lot of people say that you have to have a great QB to win SB and there is some truth to that. However, you gotta crawl before you can walk. How about we just try to assemble a team that isn't an embarrassment to the city of buffalo first and then build from there. Fitz can help us get there and beyond IMHO.

 

If Tim Tebow or Blaine Gabbert of Cam Newton was on our team, we'd still be 5-8 or worse.

We need D more than anything else. Don't squander picks on nice to have guys.

 

 

If we had Cam I promise we'd be in the playoffs no doubt in my mind I'm sorry to tell you that truth... Tebow would be an "IF" but all he does is win so who know... As of now both those gus are way better than Fitz... What's a Blaine Gabbert by the way?

 

 

 

Im down with the drafting of RG3 but IDK if Gailey would do it cuz he has a man crush on Fitzgarbage and they paid him for 4 years plus our defense is so bad. I think our receivers could go one more year with out that huge guy with speed cuz 1) we have big targets in chandler and nelson 2) if we had speed at receiver it wouldn't matter cuz Fitzgarbage couldn't get him the ball down field anyway. The only teams that need QBs are Indy, Miami, Wash and us those I can think of off hand... if Washington or Miami picks before us we get the best pass rusher which I don't have a clue who that would be nobody really stands out to me...

Edited December 14, 2011 by ReturnoftheBuffaloBeast23

[#34fan]

If you believe the guy to be a franchise QB, you take him. Fitz will be 30 and will never be elite. The perfect situation is for Fitz to start another year while RG3 learns under him. IMO, RG3 is the perfect Buffalo guy - great family and he's engaged. He's going to be a stud.

I agree 100% percent with everything except the "learns under him" part. Griffin has a better arm, better accuracy, and is a far better athlete in general than Fitz-spastic. Ideally, both Chan and Fitz should be GONE, so the kid wont be contaminated by their failures. I hate to get all "Outbreak" on you man, but you already know how #34fan does it.

Edited December 14, 2011 by #34fan

[Astrobot]

Fitzpatrick is struggling because most of the top playmakers on offense are on IR. The only coaching problem I see is defensive coordinator. If the Bills add some pass rush in the off season and improve depth all around, they will have a very solid team. Did you notice that Fitz's "struggles" coincide with the loss of Jones, Wood and Jackson? Jackson accounted for 40% of the team offense. Its a lot harder for the qb when the pass rush is getting to you, your snaps are off target, the guys who can get open are not on the field, the guys who can make great catches and get yards after the catch aren't on the field. It's not fitz's fault that the 7th string receiver he hit on the hands dropped the ball. Yeah he threw a couple picks but that happens. You normally overcome that by throwing to your playmakers and scoring points. Stevie Johnson is the only threat left and hes getting doubled every play. defenses couldn't do that early in the season. Even Chandler was out last week. Who is Fitz supposed to throw to? Spiller isn't effective enough to help in the lay action game. Its pretty easy to figure out why this season collapsed. IR. no pass rush (the few potential pass rush guys are on IR too but thats the most glaring need for sure.

+1. Return the 10 starters from Game 1 and we'll be fine. Don't move up in the draft; we'll have a choice of the #1 or #2 OLB34 in the draft, as well as the #2 or #3 QB. There will be QB's in this draft in RD3 that will become starters; I believe that. But only a couple of OLB's past RD2 will.

[8-8 Forever?]

I've been a huge fan of Fitzpatrick's, but if he continues his downward spiral (or even if he's just merely ok) even I'll be looking at the QB position in this next draft. If the reason he's been so shaky is because he's playing injured then the Bills should sit him and level with the fans so we can at least understand what happened to the guy playing so awesome the first part of the season.

 

With that being said, the Bills will no doubt be picking around the 8-12 range. My question is, given the parameters of a healthy Fitzpatrick not looking good these final three games, what would you be comfortable with the Bills giving up to get to the #3 selection with someone like the Rams to get RG III?

 

If he looks as good as advertised going into the draft, the most I could think of doing is 2012 1st, 2nd...2013 1st and 2nd. That's a hefty price, but I really believe that's the type of decision the Bills will be facing. It could possibly cost even more. I don't even know if I'd pull the trigger on the trade I just proposed.

 

If Fitzpatrick doesn't look very good from here on out then I would be very interested to know what their thoughts were draft-wize of this RG III guy.

 

 

BTW, I'm fine going with best LT or LB! I just was wondering how badly we want a franchise QB, because the price is gonna be very very high.

Will need to get to pick no 8 to get Barkley or RGIII b/c Redskin and phins will take them

[Astrobot]

Will need to get to pick no 8 to get Barkley or RGIII b/c Redskin and phins will take them

We are betting the "Skins 'n' Fins" theory too. DraftTek Round 1

 

Colts take Luck at #1

Skins take Barkley at #5

Fins take RG3 at #9 (probably not Landry Jones)

 

We are the beneficiaries of this run on rookie QB's, though, because that leaves us a nice choice at ~#11 of Upshaw OLB, Mercilus OLB, Billy Winn DE, and possibly Mike Adams OT.

[NewEra]

1323885636[/url]' post='2336070']

Let's start from scratch again!!! With a rookie qb! .....smh ....

 

Because the loss of fred jackson, wood and tons of other key player had nuffin to do with the decline

 

They all had something to do with the decline. The biggest reason for the decline IMO, is the nfl scouted our offensive philosophy and countered it with a defense to stop it. Once they figured us out, we don't have the talent NOR the QB to improve. Think fitz is our savior all you want, you're wrong. Decent qb, that is all.

Starting from scratch with a guy that can be special is MUCH better than starting from scratch with a mediocre guy.

 

1323904560[/url]' post='2336361']

Do yall really think that if we had Robert Griffin III with this WR corps and OLine and no running game and no defense that we would be winning?

 

We need to build around Fitz. He's decent when he's got help. He can't do it himself and neither can any other QB for that matter.

 

We LB, OL, RB, and WR plus a lot of depth to be good. Not another QB that needs time to improve.

 

I know a lot of people say that you have to have a great QB to win SB and there is some truth to that. However, you gotta crawl before you can walk. How about we just try to assemble a team that isn't an embarrassment to the city of buffalo first and then build from there. Fitz can help us get there and beyond IMHO.

 

If Tim Tebow or Blaine Gabbert of Cam Newton was on our team, we'd still be 5-8 or worse.

We need D more than anything else. Don't squander picks on nice to have guys.

 

Simple. Because you're not always in the position to get yourself a special qb. If you can get one....GET ONE. Period.

[Turbosrrgood]

If we had Cam I promise we'd be in the playoffs no doubt in my mind I'm sorry to tell you that truth... Tebow would be an "IF" but all he does is win so who know... As of now both those gus are way better than Fitz... What's a Blaine Gabbert by the way?

 

 

 

Im down with the drafting of RG3 but IDK if Gailey would do it cuz he has a man crush on Fitzgarbage and they paid him for 4 years plus our defense is so bad. I think our receivers could go one more year with out that huge guy with speed cuz 1) we have big targets in chandler and nelson 2) if we had speed at receiver it wouldn't matter cuz Fitzgarbage couldn't get him the ball down field anyway. The only teams that need QBs are Indy, Miami, Wash and us those I can think of off hand... if Washington or Miami picks before us we get the best pass rusher which I don't have a clue who that would be nobody really stands out to me...

 

I don't care how many lucky late wins Tebow gets, he still sucks. Last weeks win can be credited to one person Marion Barber (Or "god" if you are religious, I'm not)... Fox should get all of the credit, that team is winning with a strong running game and amazing defense, not Tebow. I'd take Fitz any day.

 

I like Cam, but how can you say we would "be in the playoffs no doubt"? Have you looked at Cam Newton's record? He's exciting, and has talent but hasn't exactly gotten that "winning" thing down yet. It's not like the Bills have a better defense or receiving core that they would all the sudden be playoff contender with him...I guess this is just one of those "it's always greener" comments...You are way off however...

 

I'm sure in week 7 you were ready to crown Fitz league MVP and assumed the Bills were superbowl bound too...

Edited December 15, 2011 by Turbosrrgood

[mjt328]

A lot depends on whether we lose out. We might not have to trade up.

If we finish the season 5-11, I expect us to draft around #5-7. If we finish 6-10 or 7-9, we are probably looking at #15-20.

 

 

After the Colts take Luck, we could have a legitimate shot at Matt Barkely, RGIII or even Landry Jones.

The Vikings and Rams will draft before us, but will not be taking a quarterback. Neither will Philadelphia, Tampa Bay or Carolina. And I still have my doubts about Jacksonville going for a first round quarterback two years in a row.

 

 

That means we are competing with Miami (4-9), Cleveland (4-9), Washington (4-9) and Kansas City (5-8) over the three remaining QBs.

[tennesseeboy]

No way. We need to create a legitimate defense with the best defensive player available and Tyrann Mathieu if available should be our first choice. After that we need OLB, LT and a DE. We could also look for guards and wide receivers to add depth. We cast our lot with Fitz, he has shown great potential and had better get his axx out of the slump before the end of the season. Next year's team is still going to be Fitz's as long as Chan is here.

 

Now whether Chan and Buddy should be here is another issue.

Nine wins.

[jcbillsfan]

If RG3 is available, you take him. Fitz is an unkempt Chad Pennington

I agree with you . I will say this Fitz is chad with a better arm, and Chad was a fine qb. I think he holds the alltime completion % record, and his teams made the playoffs more often then not . Rge appears to be special and you know his workouts will be off the charts . It is hard to see him getting out of the top 5. With the new draft cap the team will take more chances on qb's . We saw it last year with 4 going in round one this year we might get 5 or more .

 

We are betting the "Skins 'n' Fins" theory too. DraftTek Round 1

 

Colts take Luck at #1

Skins take Barkley at #5

Fins take RG3 at #9 (probably not Landry Jones)

 

We are the beneficiaries of this run on rookie QB's, though, because that leaves us a nice choice at ~#11 of Upshaw OLB, Mercilus OLB, Billy Winn DE, and possibly Mike Adams OT.

Astro you really think Rge slips to 9 , I have to think if he falls past 5 team will trade up. I wouldn't discount cleveland takubg a qb either . I also wonder if Kirpatrick isn't on the mix for the bIlls . Chan usually gives clues and he has said you can either cover them or pressure them. Kirpatrick round 1 lindsay round 2 my two cents

 

A lot depends on whether we lose out. We might not have to trade up.

If we finish the season 5-11, I expect us to draft around #5-7. If we finish 6-10 or 7-9, we are probably looking at #15-20.

 

 

After the Colts take Luck, we could have a legitimate shot at Matt Barkely, RGIII or even Landry Jones.

The Vikings and Rams will draft before us, but will not be taking a quarterback. Neither will Philadelphia, Tampa Bay or Carolina. And I still have my doubts about Jacksonville going for a first round quarterback two years in a row.

 

 

That means we are competing with Miami (4-9), Cleveland (4-9), Washington (4-9) and Kansas City (5-8) over the three remaining QBs.

I dont think you can discount seattle, arizona or even the 49ers with a big move , moving up to take a qb

[ny33]

No way. We need to create a legitimate defense with the best defensive player available and Tyrann Mathieu if available should be our first choice. After that we need OLB, LT and a DE. We could also look for guards and wide receivers to add depth. We cast our lot with Fitz, he has shown great potential and had better get his axx out of the slump before the end of the season. Next year's team is still going to be Fitz's as long as Chan is here.

 

Now whether Chan and Buddy should be here is another issue.

Nine wins.

 

Dude, try doing some research before you post. Tyrann Mathieu isn't even eligible for the upcoming draft.

[BringBackFlutie]

If we had Cam I promise we'd be in the playoffs no doubt in my mind I'm sorry to tell you that truth... Tebow would be an "IF" but all he does is win so who know... As of now both those gus are way better than Fitz... What's a Blaine Gabbert by the way?

 

 

 

Im down with the drafting of RG3 but IDK if Gailey would do it cuz he has a man crush on Fitzgarbage and they paid him for 4 years plus our defense is so bad. I think our receivers could go one more year with out that huge guy with speed cuz 1) we have big targets in chandler and nelson 2) if we had speed at receiver it wouldn't matter cuz Fitzgarbage couldn't get him the ball down field anyway. The only teams that need QBs are Indy, Miami, Wash and us those I can think of off hand... if Washington or Miami picks before us we get the best pass rusher which I don't have a clue who that would be nobody really stands out to me...

 

Sooner or later, to be an elite team, Fitz needs to be replaced.

 

That said, you're a mindless Fitzhater. That much is obvious. Your post is less accurate than Fitz' worst throws. If you think that even the Great Cam Newton would have us in the playoffs and you have "no doubt" this is true, you're insane. Cam Newton isn't scoring 30 PPG with Carolina's receivers so what makes you think he'd do it here? You DO realize that's what you have to do every game to win with our supposed D, right? Fitzpatrick can't overcome the D because he's not that good. Cam couldn't do it because, well, it's not realistic anyway. Think about it. It's not hard. It's just arithmetic.

[NewEra]

1323906409[/url]' post='2336391']

+1. Return the 10 starters from Game 1 and we'll be fine. Don't move up in the draft; we'll have a choice of the #1 or #2 OLB34 in the draft, as well as the #2 or #3 QB. There will be QB's in this draft in RD3 that will become starters; I believe that. But only a couple of OLB's past RD2 will.

 

Fitzpatrick became a "starter". We don't need a "starter". We have a "starter". We NEED A GREAT F'n QB!!!!!....and a bunch of other pieces. Get the qb if youre in position too.

Edited December 15, 2011 by NewEra