Why aren't the Bills and Erie County taking action to help secure

[bbill]

Long time reader, first time poster here. First off, I've worked in the sports & entertainment industry in the Dallas-Fort Worth area for 12 years now, and like most people on the boards, I'm a life-long fan of both the Bills and Sabres.

 

Over time through work, I've gained a pretty good appreciation for what makes teams and the facilities they play in "tick". Like it or not, operating a team is 100% a business with the goal to make money. Compared to the vast majority of NFL teams, the Bills and Erie County do not come close to maximizing the potential profits at The Ralph.

 

There is an organization that exists called "Gridiron Stadium Network" (www.gridironstadiumnetwork.com). A dozen stadiums that house NFL teams are members, and they basically pool their resources to attract large-scale events and concerts. Arenas do the same thing. Most other NFL stadiums bring in other events too; they just book events on their own rather than as part of a network.

 

I count 7 of the stadiums within this network as being in outdoor, cold-weather climates. Why isn't The Ralph one of them? The blame isn't necessarily on the Bills, but rather, Erie County since they control/operate the stadium. Small-minded thinking that both the Bills and the County fail to realize. I know they held the Winter Classic a few years ago and the Section VI High School playoffs every year. But aside from those, when was the last time The Ralph was used for a concert like almost every other NFL stadium is these days?

 

The goal of modern NFL stadia is to create business opportunities to MAKE MONEY, and I feel is yet another reason why the Bills aren't able--or even willing--to keep up with the Joneses.

 

Compare the Bills' website to any other team in the league aside from Oakland and San Diego (who also play in outdated venues and considering relocation), and there is no information on booking the stadium for events or renting space for receptions, meeting rooms, and other catered gatherings. Cleveland Browns Stadium conducts tours and rents out space for proms and weddings, for instance. Maybe the Bills do offer this, but they certainly don't promote it. THIS IS HOW TEAMS AND FACILITIES CAN MAKE EASY MONEY, and would seemingly be a win-win for both the Bills and Erie County.

 

Like many of you, I question this franchise's true long-term intentions. If they were really interested in expanding their business and staying in Buffalo for the long haul, they'd be looking at ways to make The Ralph more profitable for Erie County--and the Bills would certainly get a cut of the profits--which in turn would help justify a long overdue major renovation to the stadium.

 

Perhaps the bigger question is this: with a mostly non-existent owner and 2 years before the lease runs out on a 40+ year old stadium, why aren't the media and citizens of WNY calling out the team's top leadership and demanding to know what the grand plan is?

[GA BILLS FAN]

Totally agree.

 

Local poiticians and the media is asleep at the wheel and let me point the finger directly at people on this board (probably the most passionate Bills fans on Earth); why aren't you calling your local politician, the radio, the newspaper and demanding some pro-active action to get these idiots off their collective butts and doing something to improve the financial viability of the team ? The Buffalo Bills are one of the most important assets this community has and WE the people of this community should take action NOW instead of waiting for Ralph to pass away and then wishing for the best.

 

The Gridiron Stadium Network is one example of the local leaders being asleep at the wheel and all of us fans letting it happen.

 

I hate to tell everybody, but the proverbial bus we are all on is headed for a tree !!!!!!!

[Hammered a Lot]

Living next to the stadium I see the field house being used all the time. The stadium clubs are also used from time to time for events. As far as concerts, there is talk about triing to get Farm Aid here in 2012. Recent history shows that Farm Aid has been playing in 20,000 seat venues. The Bills, as I suggest to a higher upper in the Bills $$$$ department two decades ago, should try and develope a Country Weekend concert event like Jamboree in the Hills. ZZZZZZZ. As far as smaller concerts, admusement parks have takin over the 20,000 customer market. Permanent stage cuts cost

 

The Bills control the use of the stadium. Erie County, I think, can use the stadium

2 or 3 days a year as long as it is not for profit.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Hammered a Lot

[Charles Romes]

The music market is so fragmented these days that there is likely not a single act that could come close to selling out that stadium.

 

It's better for ticket prices to book venues that will be sold out.

[8-8 Forever?]

Long time reader, first time poster here. First off, I've worked in the sports & entertainment industry in the Dallas-Fort Worth area for 12 years now, and like most people on the boards, I'm a life-long fan of both the Bills and Sabres.

 

Over time through work, I've gained a pretty good appreciation for what makes teams and the facilities they play in "tick". Like it or not, operating a team is 100% a business with the goal to make money. Compared to the vast majority of NFL teams, the Bills and Erie County do not come close to maximizing the potential profits at The Ralph.

 

There is an organization that exists called "Gridiron Stadium Network" (www.gridironstadiumnetwork.com). A dozen stadiums that house NFL teams are members, and they basically pool their resources to attract large-scale events and concerts. Arenas do the same thing. Most other NFL stadiums bring in other events too; they just book events on their own rather than as part of a network.

 

I count 7 of the stadiums within this network as being in outdoor, cold-weather climates. Why isn't The Ralph one of them? The blame isn't necessarily on the Bills, but rather, Erie County since they control/operate the stadium. Small-minded thinking that both the Bills and the County fail to realize. I know they held the Winter Classic a few years ago and the Section VI High School playoffs every year. But aside from those, when was the last time The Ralph was used for a concert like almost every other NFL stadium is these days?

 

The goal of modern NFL stadia is to create business opportunities to MAKE MONEY, and I feel is yet another reason why the Bills aren't able--or even willing--to keep up with the Joneses.

 

Compare the Bills' website to any other team in the league aside from Oakland and San Diego (who also play in outdated venues and considering relocation), and there is no information on booking the stadium for events or renting space for receptions, meeting rooms, and other catered gatherings. Cleveland Browns Stadium conducts tours and rents out space for proms and weddings, for instance. Maybe the Bills do offer this, but they certainly don't promote it. THIS IS HOW TEAMS AND FACILITIES CAN MAKE EASY MONEY, and would seemingly be a win-win for both the Bills and Erie County.

 

Like many of you, I question this franchise's true long-term intentions. If they were really interested in expanding their business and staying in Buffalo for the long haul, they'd be looking at ways to make The Ralph more profitable for Erie County--and the Bills would certainly get a cut of the profits--which in turn would help justify a long overdue major renovation to the stadium.

 

Perhaps the bigger question is this: with a mostly non-existent owner and 2 years before the lease runs out on a 40+ year old stadium, why aren't the media and citizens of WNY calling out the team's top leadership and demanding to know what the grand plan is?

 

If you are waiting for the do nothings of WNY politics to creatively do something you will be waiting a long time. Most people from my generation (in their 50's now) with brains and quicks left WNY a long time ago. My guess is those that are left certainly will have nothing to do with the sinkhole of public life there.

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

Looks to me like the existing stadium lease gives the Bills the exclusive right to use the stadium for potential money-making events like concerts - - the County/State are limited to a maximum of 4 "Civic Events" at the stadium per year, and the Field House is off-limits even for those four events. Some relevant portions of the existing stadium lease:

 

http://www.erie.gov/billslease/stadium.phtml

 

ARTICLE 1 BASIC LEASE INFORMATION

 

1.1 Definitions. As used in this Stadium Lease, the following terms shall have the meanings ascribed thereto:

 

(b) Administration Building: The approximately 60,000 square foot, four-story building situated on the Land immediately adjacent to the Stadium and presently housing the Team's administrative offices, portions of the County Facilities, certain of the Luxury Suites and a concession commissary.

 

(h) Bills: Buffalo Bills, Inc., a New York business corporation.

 

(j) Bills' Event: Any public gathering at the Stadium which is neither a Game nor a Civic Event.

 

(p) Buildings: The Stadium, the Administration Building, the Field House, the Training Center and any other building or enclosed structure now or hereafter situated on the Land.

 

(v) Civic Event: Any event or public gathering at the Stadium Complex sponsored by either the County or the ECSC pursuant to Section 2.3 of the Stadium Lease, the primary purpose of which is the promotion of civic, community, governmental or charitable purposes (as opposed to pecuniary gain), and which does not compete with the Bills' use of the Stadium Complex as a venue for professional football contests and musical concerts and festivals.

 

(w) Civic Event Expenses: The actual, incremental out-of-pocket expenses incurred by the Bills in their capacity as operator of the Stadium Complex with respect to any Civic Event, including, without limitation, the cost of repairing any damage to any component of the Stadium Complex arising out of a Civic Event and not covered by any applicable insurance policy.

 

(cc) County Facilities: The approximately three hundred fourteen (314) square foot office located in the "tunnel" level of the Administration Building presently used to house the County's maintenance office.

 

(oo) Field House: The approximately 98,000 square foot field house situated on the Land commonly known as the "Ralph C. Wilson, Jr. Field House" presently housing the Team's indoor practice facility.

 

(qq) Franchise: The franchise granted by the NFL to the Bills pursuant to which the Bills own and operate an NFL Team, as evidenced by the "Franchise Certificate of Membership" issued by the NFL.

 

(mmm) Luxury Suites: The enclosed suites at the Stadium and in the Administration Building, consisting of ninety (90) existing suites and seventy-four (74) suites to be constructed as described in the Development Study.

 

(ssss) Practice Facilities: The outdoor practice field and related amenities situated on the Land.

 

(ddddd) Reserved Areas: (i) The concession and merchandise vending areas of the Stadium Complex; (ii) the Luxury Suites; (iii) the Stadium Club; (iv) the Stadium press box; (v) the Field House and (vi) the Team's administrative offices, locker rooms and training rooms.

 

(kkkkk) Stadium Club: The restaurant facilities within the Stadium that are reserved for the exclusive use by Club Seat ticket holders.

 

(mmmmm) Stadium Events: All Games, Civic Events and Bills Events.

 

(vvvvv) Suite Corp.: Buffalo Bills Suite Corp., a New York business corporation having an office and principal place of business at One Bills Drive, Orchard Park, New York 14127.

 

(yyyyy) Team: The NFL Team owned by the Bills pursuant to the Franchise currently named "Buffalo Bills".

 

(dddddd) Training Center: The approximately 75,000 square foot training center and Team operations facility to be constructed on the Land as part of the Project, as described in the Development Study.

 

(eeeeee) Transfer of Ownership: Any direct or indirect sale, transfer, assignment or other conveyance of (i) the Franchise (or any interest(s) therein) in whole or in part, or (ii) the acquisition by any Person (other than Ralph C. Wilson, Jr., his spouse, any trust or other entity controlled by him or any of his lineal descendants) of beneficial ownership (within the meaning of Rule 13d-3 promulgated under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934) of fifty-one percent (51%) or more of the capital stock of the Bills (whether acquired in one or more transactions).

 

(ffffff) Unaffiliated Vendors: Any Person not employed by the Bills or by the concessionaire selected by the Bills and approved by the County in accordance with Section 4.5 of the Stadium Lease who sells, offers for sale or otherwise attempts to sell any food, beverage or merchandise of any kind or nature whatsoever on the grounds of the Stadium Complex outside of the Stadium.

 

(jjjjjj) Vending Plan: The plan, a copy of which is attached to the Stadium Lease as Exhibit I, outlining (i) the process for the selection, operation, regulation and governance of vending by Unaffiliated Vendors on those portions of the Stadium Complex outside of the Stadium and (ii) the opportunities for non-profit and charitable organizations to operate concession stands within the Stadium.

 

ARTICLE 2 DEMISE

 

2.1 Grant of Sublease. The ECSC hereby subleases the Stadium Complex to the Bills, and the Bills hereby sublease the Stadium Complex from the ECSC, for the Term, on the terms and conditions set forth in this Stadium Lease.

 

2.2 Reservation of County Facilities. As provided in Section 2.2 of the Master Lease, at all times during the Term, the County Facilities shall be reserved for the exclusive use and occupancy of the County. The Bills covenant and agree that at all times during the Term, the County shall have the right to access and use, on a non-exclusive basis, consistent with existing practice, all first aid and security areas within the Stadium.

 

2.3 Civic Events. Other than during the NFL Season, the Bills shall make the Stadium Complex available for up to four (4) Civic Events per Lease Year on the following terms and conditions:

 

(a) Three (3) of such Civic Events shall be available for use by the County or any Person designated by the County, and one (1) of such Civic Events shall be available for use by the ECSC or any Person designated by the ECSC.

 

(b) At least forty-five (45) days but not more than one-hundred and eighty (180) days prior to the date of the proposed Civic Event, the County or the ECSC, as the case may be, shall notify the Bills in writing of the requested date for such event and shall identify in all material respects to the extent then known the nature of the event, the sponsor, the areas of the Stadium Complex to be utilized, the terms (including ticket prices) of admission, the expected attendance, any special security or other arrangements and any other relevant information reasonably necessary for the Bills to perform their duties as the operator of the Stadium Complex. The notifying party shall update the content of such notice from time to time promptly upon becoming aware of any changes in the information given above and any additional relevant information of the type described above. Upon its receipt of a notice requesting the scheduling of a Civic Event, the Bills shall reserve such date for such Civic Event (unless such date has been previously reserved for another Stadium Event) and shall not schedule any other subsequently proposed Stadium Event on such date without written approval from the County or the ECSC, as the case may be.

 

© In no event shall any Civic Event be scheduled on any date that has been previously reserved for a Bills' Event or another Civic Event. The County, the ECSC and the Bills shall exercise good faith and cooperate with one another in the event of potential conflicts that may arise between proposed events.

 

(d) In no event shall any Civic Event be a professional football game or other professional sporting contest, nor shall any Civic Event include an event or activity which reasonably may be expected to cause damage to the Playing Field which will not be repaired in a timely fashion.

 

(e) The Bills shall promptly invoice the County or the ECSC, as the case may be, for all Civic Event Expenses following any Civic Event which it sponsors, and shall include

 

with such invoice copies of appropriate back-up documentation evidencing such Civic Event Expenses. Within forty-five (45) business days of the receipt by the County or the ECSC of any such invoice, the recipient shall, at its sole cost and expense, reimburse the Bills for all invoiced Civic Event Expenses.

 

(f) The County and the ECSC shall each retain the admission ticket revenue (if any) from any Civic Event which it sponsors.

 

(g) All Licensees who seek to use their Luxury Suite or Club Level Seat in conjunction with a Civic Event shall be required to purchase admission tickets for such Civic Event.

 

(h) The County or the ECSC, as the case may be, shall promptly repair or cause to be repaired any damage to any component of the Stadium Complex arising out of any Civic Event which it sponsors.

 

(i) Neither the County, the ECSC nor any Person designated by the County or the ECSC with respect to a Civic Event shall have the right to use any of the Reserved Areas during Civic Events.

 

(j) At the request of the County or the ECSC, as the case may be, the Bills shall operate the Stadium Complex concessions and the Parking Areas during or in connection with a Civic Event at a level deemed appropriate by the Bills, in their reasonable discretion, in light of the nature of the Civic Event and the number of Stadium Patrons expected to attend the Civic Event. All revenue derived from such operations shall belong to the Bills.

[GA BILLS FAN]

I think the larger point is for the community (of Bills fans) to "rise up" and compell the politicians to take action and force the media to hold them accountable to that end.

 

It seems the collective community in Western New York is sitting back, waiting for Ralph to pass away and then hope/pray the team isn't sold

 

In the meantime, why not act to make the team MORE viable financially in WNY ?

 

Why not look at things like Gridiron, or a Bills HoF or strongly back stadium improvements that are significant (like the ones at Lambeau ?) ---

[Hammered a Lot]

Looks to me like the existing stadium lease gives the Bills the exclusive right to use the stadium for potential money-making events like concerts - - the County/State are limited to a maximum of 4 "Civic Events" at the stadium per year, and the Field House is off-limits even for those four events. Some relevant portions of the existing stadium lease:

 

http://www.erie.gov/billslease/stadium.phtml

See my post.

[AxelRipper]

I'm still amazed we haven't had any concerts in there recently. This year would have been the perfect one. Tim McGraw and Kenny Chesney are on a stadium tour next year. Buffalo is the one place that people are amazed they didn't book (most likely due to the memories of the horse incident a few years back)

[weehawk]

While the gridiron net sounds like a good idea, the reality is that stadium-level events just are not occurring at a rate that they used to. The last concert at RWS was NSync in 2001. Springsteen was supposed to play in 2003, but it was moved to Darien due to poor ticket sales. That right there should tell you something. The only large-scale stadium tour over the last few years has been U2. However, they passed on RWS. Probably because of the Springsteen show.

 

Some markets can support stadium shows (i.e., Meadowlands). Buffalo cant. Did they even shoot for the U2 show? Who knows? I just dont see a lot of potential in RWS hosting large-scale events outside of football. Give me some examples of what events you think fit into a stadium-sized footprint? There aren't many, or else you'd hear more about them. Kenny Chesney and Tim McGraw are doing stadiums next year. I'm sure they wont come after they were arrested at RWS in 2000 during the George Straight tour. Stadium shows (and most other events) simply have no future at RWS. The mgmt team is better off focusing on other issues.

[BuffaloWest]

I think the larger point is for the community (of Bills fans) to "rise up" and compell the politicians to take action and force the media to hold them accountable to that end.

 

It seems the collective community in Western New York is sitting back, waiting for Ralph to pass away and then hope/pray the team isn't sold

 

In the meantime, why not act to make the team MORE viable financially in WNY ?

 

Why not look at things like Gridiron, or a Bills HoF or strongly back stadium improvements that are significant (like the ones at Lambeau ?) ---

 

EXACTLY! No one really presses The Bills organization to do anything, or answer any questions. They rarely grant tv, radio or print interviews of any significance. The one guy who seems to call them out is Jerry Sullivan. Like him or hate him, they guy calls it as he sees it...When they were succeeding , he gave them their due, now that they suck, he is calling them out again...One of his articles appeared in The San Diego Union Tribune yesterday in fact-it was rather scathing. The organization should be called out regularly-It is an embarrassment how poorly they have been run for the last 12 + years...any other business run this way would have been shuttered 6 years ago...Luckily for Ralph the NFL is bulletproof. I love Ralph, but come on man-sell the damn team to someone who can keep them in BFLO and carry the torch into the future. This isnt working anymore-clearly.

[Fan in San Diego]

I'm still amazed we haven't had any concerts in there recently. This year would have been the perfect one. Tim McGraw and Kenny Chesney are on a stadium tour next year. Buffalo is the one place that people are amazed they didn't book (most likely due to the memories of the horse incident a few years back)

 

What is the horse incident?

[GOBILLS78]

What is the horse incident?

 

http://countrymusic.about.com/library/blarrest.htm

[Stevie Ray]

http://countrymusic.about.com/library/blarrest.htm

 

whew, what a relief. i thought this story was going somewhere else!

[GMB 8888]

It's not the owner or county's fault for not hosting events/concerts at the stadium. Buffalo/WNY cannot sell-out shows at FNC or Darien lake, let a lone a show at RWS. U2 played stadiums in the US the last 2 summers(all 39 shows were sold out), I know for a fact Buffalo wasn't even in the running for this show because of sluggish sales for recent Live Nation shows at Darien Lake. WNY had the lowest ticket sales for last summer for 3 shows last summer at Darien Lake.

 

This is why Buffalo doesn't see any high-profile tours. We are getting Roger Waters this summer but on his 2nd time around N. America, which helps reduce the risk of playing Buffalo. Also, FNC/Tickets.com lost out on the bidding for Britney Spears, Guns N Roses, Jay Z/Kanye West, and Usher. All 4 of those shows would have brought needed revenue/tourism dollars, however we lost out strictly based on not being able to charge the prices needed to re-coup the artist guarentees.

 

Ever notice we RARELY see a major tour stop in Buffalo? We will continue to draw the country/classic rock tours years afetr year because thats what sells in this area. It's sad, we live in NY but have the musical tastes of Oklahoma or Nebraska. What else are you going to do when your only rock station sis till playing Nirvana/Soundgarden/Bush 50x per day instead of some newer exciting stuff. Oh well, and BTW I do know that Gaga is touring this summer in stadiums, and I can GUARENTEE she skips Buffalo, not saying that's much of a loss, but it is financially.

 

end rant/

[PromoTheRobot]

The music market is so fragmented these days that there is likely not a single act that could come close to selling out that stadium.

 

It's better for ticket prices to book venues that will be sold out.

Bring back Bummerfests!

 

PTR

[GA BILLS FAN]

Again, this isn't just about concerts/music --- this is about creating and pursuing opportunities that help create value and create financial stability --- it could be concerts at the stadium; events at the Fieldhouse; exhibits; fan experiences; family friendly events etc. etc.

 

It's not our jobs to do this; what is the so-called marketing guru Brandon doing ? --- what about Littman and Overdorf -- why is noone (in the media) asking these types of questions

 

What's remarkable is some of the thoughts about the potential renovations to RWS and people saying "we shouldn't spend so much money when the economy is suffering" -- I'm sorry, in this case, you better spend some money --

 

Go to http://www.packers.com/lambeau-field/index.html

take a look at what Green Bay did to Lambeau Field --- AMAZING

 

I was there last year --- atrium, HoF, restaurants, stadium tours, huge gift store, host weddings/receptions etc -- they've create a year round destination

 

Don't give me location --- take a look at Foxboro and what they've created around the new stadium ---

 

Get your collective heads out of the sand and wake up Buffalo or the Bills will disappear

[Hammered a Lot]

http://countrymusic.about.com/library/blarrest.htm

From what I heard, the girl had issues and later in life committed suicide.

[eme123]

It's in the county's best interest to sell out concerts DOWNTOWN and aid the very few small restaurants, bars, and shops than try to sell nearly three times the amount of tickets in Orchard Park. What business or taxpayer would benefit from that? The Big Tree Inn and no one. Building that stadium in Orchard Park was down right dumb. I can't wait to see what happens when the Bills vacate the Ralph. Its gonna cost taxpayers a few million to tear the thing down and then what? I say housing development.

 

As someone who follows local politics closely I feel that our Erie County wants to avoid the Bills issue like the plague. They don't have the money. It's that simple. Their plan is to push the burden on to the state. It's no surprise that Cumo has also avoided the issue like the plague. In his defense, why should he care? He can win his next election with out the votes of WNY.

 

The county is going to have to raise an already ridiculous sales tax. That's the only answer to pay for stadium improvements. I'm sure that will be great for local growth.

 

Haha. I need to get out of this F'n hole.