There's One Constant

[cale]

I still think Ralph bears some responsibility - but the guy is on his last legs. He's entrusted the everyday running (of the non football side)of the franchise to the three headed monster of Littman, Overdorf and Brandon. If you look at the front office structure it appears the Treasurer is ahead of the CEO. That in itself should tell you something.

 

Littmann/Overdorf and Brandon to some extent presided over the worst period of football in Buffalo. And are constantly rewarded. Presumably because Littmann has made Ralph a lot of money.

 

It's not the GM, It's not the coach (I like this coach a lot, BTW - I think he's the best we've had since Marv) and it's not the QB. Though he's been awful lately, I think it will come out that he's been significantly injured since the Washington game.

 

A friend of mine who has been an USA Today reporter for a long time says the organization is being run into the ground by people who actively know what they're doing. Most of it is dictated by money and Ralph's kids. They want the most money possible for the franchise when Ralph dies. Anything that affects the long term bottom line of the franchise is not even up for discussion.

 

You can bet the cash spent on Fitz and Williams is going to be a huge issue this offseason. I think Fred Jackson is as good as gone after next season. Especially if he doesn't match this season's output.

 

All this to say I think we need to invest heavily on both lines this off season to be even competitive next season. But we're gonna rely on the draft to build the lines. And that is just going to screw us over next season - before we look for a new coach.

 

This is a very dysfunctional franchise - with no realistic long term plan. Or even short term for the matter.

 

Good coaching, creative offensive game planning and a healthy QB made the early part of the season for us. That and that he didn't have to hold the ball long. Once the WRs and OL got into a funk, it was over. That also masked our slightly above average DL.

 

But the talent and depth just isn't there to mask it anymore. For that we do need to spend and spend wisely ala Barnett.

 

But I don't think it's any accident that AJ and GMs of that generation are on the outs. Whaley is our only hope. That and that our FO sees the light soon or this franchise gets sold.

 

That's all I got.

 

C

[dave mcbride]

I still think Ralph bears some responsibility - but the guy is on his last legs. He's entrusted the everyday running (of the non football side)of the franchise to the three headed monster of Littman, Overdorf and Brandon. If you look at the front office structure it appears the Treasurer is ahead of the CEO. That in itself should tell you something.

 

Littmann/Overdorf and Brandon to some extent presided over the worst period of football in Buffalo. And are constantly rewarded. Presumably because Littmann has made Ralph a lot of money.

 

It's not the GM, It's not the coach (I like this coach a lot, BTW - I think he's the best we've had since Marv) and it's not the QB. Though he's been awful lately, I think it will come out that he's been significantly injured since the Washington game.

 

A friend of mine who has been an USA Today reporter for a long time says the organization is being run into the ground by people who actively know what they're doing. Most of it is dictated by money and Ralph's kids. They want the most money possible for the franchise when Ralph dies. Anything that affects the long term bottom line of the franchise is not even up for discussion.

 

You can bet the cash spent on Fitz and Williams is going to be a huge issue this offseason. I think Fred Jackson is as good as gone after next season. Especially if he doesn't match this season's output.

 

All this to say I think we need to invest heavily on both lines this off season to be even competitive next season. But we're gonna rely on the draft to build the lines. And that is just going to screw us over next season - before we look for a new coach.

 

This is a very dysfunctional franchise - with no realistic long term plan. Or even short term for the matter.

 

Good coaching, creative offensive game planning and a healthy QB made the early part of the season for us. That and that he didn't have to hold the ball long. Once the WRs and OL got into a funk, it was over. That also masked our slightly above average DL.

 

But the talent and depth just isn't there to mask it anymore. For that we do need to spend and spend wisely ala Barnett.

 

But I don't think it's any accident that AJ and GMs of that generation are on the outs. Whaley is our only hope. That and that our FO sees the light soon or this franchise gets sold.

 

That's all I got.

 

C

If I'm reading you correctly, the seller of this franchise won't give a damn about whether it remains in Buffalo or not. Correct?

[cale]

If I'm reading you correctly, the seller of this franchise won't give a damn about whether it remains in Buffalo or not. Correct?

 

That is my understanding. I guess Ralph can always stipulate. And he can only do that (ala Wayne Weaver) while he is still alive or he could leave his wife to deal with the mess.

[Coach Tuesday]

If it wasn't a quasi-public monopoly, I wouldn't be so pissed off about it. Theoretically, owners of private companies should be allowed to do what they want with/to them. But to take our tax dollars and pocket them - that really gets my goat. Plus, as I've said before, even private companies aren't allowed to falsely advertise. Someone should sue the Bills and Wilson for deceptive trade practices/false advertising. Wouldn't be hard to find marketing materials promising (or impliedly promising) that the team's goal is to win. If management is as you say "actively" and intentionally running it into the ground to pocket short-term cash (as many of us have suspected), all the while telling consumers the opposite, they're breaking the law.

[cale]

If it wasn't a quasi-public monopoly, I wouldn't be so pissed off about it. Theoretically, owners of private companies should be allowed to do what they want with/to them. But to take our tax dollars and pocket them - that really gets my goat. Plus, as I've said before, even private companies aren't allowed to falsely advertise. Someone should sue the Bills and Wilson for deceptive trade practices/false advertising. Wouldn't be hard to find marketing materials promising (or impliedly promising) that the team's goal is to win. If management is as you say "actively" and intentionally running it into the ground to pocket short-term cash (as many of us have suspected), all the while telling consumers the opposite, they're breaking the law.

 

The trick is how do you prove "actively", right? At any rate, as healthy as Wilson is for his age. I don't think this is "his plan" as much as it is of those in his family. I think he genuinely cares about the team and the community. But I'm sure he has a stronger allegiance to his family. Which is why I think the whole preemptive succession plan is a sticky wicket for him.

 

C

[uncle flap]

If it wasn't a quasi-public monopoly, I wouldn't be so pissed off about it. Theoretically, owners of private companies should be allowed to do what they want with/to them. But to take our tax dollars and pocket them - that really gets my goat. Plus, as I've said before, even private companies aren't allowed to falsely advertise. Someone should sue the Bills and Wilson for deceptive trade practices/false advertising. Wouldn't be hard to find marketing materials promising (or impliedly promising) that the team's goal is to win. If management is as you say "actively" and intentionally running it into the ground to pocket short-term cash (as many of us have suspected), all the while telling consumers the opposite, they're breaking the law.

 

i've thought about this too. but then i realized that even if ralph et al were found guilty, it wouldnt change the last decade of futility.

 

and what happens after that? bills fans and buffalonians are at best pitied by the rest of the nation, at worst (and more likely) we are just further ridiculed.

 

also, what's worse - thinking your team is mismanaged, or knowing your team has been intentionally ran into the ground? are we more stupid/pathetic for rooting for a perennial loser, or for falling for a scam?

 

ralph's and his estate's money are certainly a factor in decisions from the top down - i'm just hopeful it isnt the only factor.

 

next year will be interesting. i expect the downward trend in ticket sales will continue. even if the org's plan is solely to make money, they still need to sell tickets. let's see what they do.

[buffbills6614]

I still think Ralph bears some responsibility - but the guy is on his last legs. He's entrusted the everyday running (of the non football side)of the franchise to the three headed monster of Littman, Overdorf and Brandon. If you look at the front office structure it appears the Treasurer is ahead of the CEO. That in itself should tell you something.

 

Littmann/Overdorf and Brandon to some extent presided over the worst period of football in Buffalo. And are constantly rewarded. Presumably because Littmann has made Ralph a lot of money.

 

It's not the GM, It's not the coach (I like this coach a lot, BTW - I think he's the best we've had since Marv) and it's not the QB. Though he's been awful lately, I think it will come out that he's been significantly injured since the Washington game.

 

A friend of mine who has been an USA Today reporter for a long time says the organization is being run into the ground by people who actively know what they're doing. Most of it is dictated by money and Ralph's kids. They want the most money possible for the franchise when Ralph dies. Anything that affects the long term bottom line of the franchise is not even up for discussion.

 

You can bet the cash spent on Fitz and Williams is going to be a huge issue this offseason. I think Fred Jackson is as good as gone after next season. Especially if he doesn't match this season's output.

 

All this to say I think we need to invest heavily on both lines this off season to be even competitive next season. But we're gonna rely on the draft to build the lines. And that is just going to screw us over next season - before we look for a new coach.

 

This is a very dysfunctional franchise - with no realistic long term plan. Or even short term for the matter.

 

Good coaching, creative offensive game planning and a healthy QB made the early part of the season for us. That and that he didn't have to hold the ball long. Once the WRs and OL got into a funk, it was over. That also masked our slightly above average DL.

 

But the talent and depth just isn't there to mask it anymore. For that we do need to spend and spend wisely ala Barnett.

 

But I don't think it's any accident that AJ and GMs of that generation are on the outs. Whaley is our only hope. That and that our FO sees the light soon or this franchise gets sold.

 

That's all I got.

 

C

 

You are so right about "Bills" being run by "three headed monster". They care nothing about winning only about making money. Why else would Brandon only interview one guy for GM position. Some one Brandon and company knew would not make waves and upset Ralph by demanding more authority in making personel discisions. Until Ralph is no longer owner, "Bills Nation" will have to submit to dictators who care only about the dollar.

[cale]

You are so right about "Bills" being run by "three headed monster". They care nothing about winning only about making money. Why else would Brandon only interview one guy for GM position. Some one Brandon and company knew would not make waves and upset Ralph by demanding more authority in making personel discisions. Until Ralph is no longer owner, "Bills Nation" will have to submit to dictators who care only about the dollar.

 

You know I don't think it was about Brandon "interviewing" one guy nor do I think it was about Ralph wanting to make all the decisions. If you listen to Ralph closely, it sounds like he has some serious fatigue about this team.

 

I think a lot of up and coming GM types would have crawled to Buffalo for the job. But I think once they heard who would "really" be running the show, they would have run away.

 

I think the rest of the NFL knows how the organization is really run. Remember, Polian worked in the NFL office for a year or so. And is very well respected. As opposed to anyone the Bills have hired.

 

How else can you explain the whole being steered away from Buffalo thing? It was important to the league that the Vick rehabilitation had every chance of succeeding. And that wasn't going to happen at Orchard Park. What does that tell you? Even the NFL believes the Bills in their present state are a lost cause. All the while paying deference to the owner for his role in the history of the league.

 

I believe Buddy is a good guy. But he is old school and he too believes that owners - especially old owners - need to be accommodated.

 

So I think unless we find accidental success - it's going to be same ol', same ol' around Orchard Park.

 

The guy I feel the worst for is Gailey and to a lesser extent Fitz. The decks are stacked against them.

 

C

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I still think Ralph bears some responsibility - but the guy is on his last legs. He's entrusted the everyday running (of the non football side)of the franchise to the three headed monster of Littman, Overdorf and Brandon. If you look at the front office structure it appears the Treasurer is ahead of the CEO. That in itself should tell you something.

 

Littmann/Overdorf and Brandon to some extent presided over the worst period of football in Buffalo. And are constantly rewarded. Presumably because Littmann has made Ralph a lot of money.

 

It's not the GM, It's not the coach (I like this coach a lot, BTW - I think he's the best we've had since Marv) and it's not the QB. Though he's been awful lately, I think it will come out that he's been significantly injured since the Washington game.

 

A friend of mine who has been an USA Today reporter for a long time says the organization is being run into the ground by people who actively know what they're doing. Most of it is dictated by money and Ralph's kids. They want the most money possible for the franchise when Ralph dies. Anything that affects the long term bottom line of the franchise is not even up for discussion.

 

You can bet the cash spent on Fitz and Williams is going to be a huge issue this offseason. I think Fred Jackson is as good as gone after next season. Especially if he doesn't match this season's output.

 

All this to say I think we need to invest heavily on both lines this off season to be even competitive next season. But we're gonna rely on the draft to build the lines. And that is just going to screw us over next season - before we look for a new coach.

 

This is a very dysfunctional franchise - with no realistic long term plan. Or even short term for the matter.

 

Good coaching, creative offensive game planning and a healthy QB made the early part of the season for us. That and that he didn't have to hold the ball long. Once the WRs and OL got into a funk, it was over. That also masked our slightly above average DL.

 

But the talent and depth just isn't there to mask it anymore. For that we do need to spend and spend wisely ala Barnett.

 

But I don't think it's any accident that AJ and GMs of that generation are on the outs. Whaley is our only hope. That and that our FO sees the light soon or this franchise gets sold.

 

That's all I got.

 

C

Great, Thanks now I'm more depressed. At least you could have said Pegula was buying the Team.

 

You know I don't think it was about Brandon "interviewing" one guy nor do I think it was about Ralph wanting to make all the decisions. If you listen to Ralph closely, it sounds like he has some serious fatigue about this team.

 

I think a lot of up and coming GM types would have crawled to Buffalo for the job. But I think once they heard who would "really" be running the show, they would have run away.

 

I think the rest of the NFL knows how the organization is really run. Remember, Polian worked in the NFL office for a year or so. And is very well respected. As opposed to anyone the Bills have hired.

 

How else can you explain the whole being steered away from Buffalo thing? It was important to the league that the Vick rehabilitation had every chance of succeeding. And that wasn't going to happen at Orchard Park. What does that tell you? Even the NFL believes the Bills in their present state are a lost cause. All the while paying deference to the owner for his role in the history of the league.

 

I believe Buddy is a good guy. But he is old school and he too believes that owners - especially old owners - need to be accommodated.

 

So I think unless we find accidental success - it's going to be same ol', same ol' around Orchard Park.

 

The guy I feel the worst for is Gailey and to a lesser extent Fitz. The decks are stacked against them.

 

C

 

They may be stacked against us but at least we could draft better to have a better team.

[thewildrabbit]

What gets me is how easily this front office is able to manipulate the fans into buying season tickets every year.

 

Spiller is "exciting"

 

We(the FO)said we would pay 10 mill to a HC, but decided to hire the guy Cowher wanted as his OC instead.

 

TO is "exciting"

 

 

Most of the games this year sold out, the man made his profit for the season. Next year they will draft a QB, to keep the treadmill working another 3 years.

 

Seriously, if this franchise honestly gave a crap about winning a SB they would have built the O line properly. But then considering how much they would need to pay top tackles, giving mediocre players extensions is even better. So when they do draft that QB, by the time his 3-4 years are up he is a beaten, washed up young man who they don't need to pay 20 mill a year. Rinse, repeat

 

10-12 QB's the last decade. 40-50 linemen the last decade. Kinda funny how Polian found players LT Wilford-C Hull-G Ritcher-QB Kelly that all played 10+ years

[cale]

Great, Thanks now I'm more depressed. At least you could have said Pegula was buying the Team.

 

 

 

They may be stacked against us but at least we could draft better to have a better team.

 

You know I think we have better talent evaluators. I don't necessarily think we draft better. And I certainly am not confident we know how to build a better team top to bottom.

 

C

[cale]

Great, Thanks now I'm more depressed. At least you could have said Pegula was buying the Team.

 

I don't know either way. I'm not sure anybody knows except Ralph and his inner circle.

 

C

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I don't know either way. I'm not sure anybody knows except Ralph and his inner circle.

 

C

I didn't think you knew, was just saying.

 

I really wish they would tell us their plan. Their silence just reinforces the belief that they are just in it for all the money they can get.

[dwight in philly]

it sure seems like the bottom line is all that matters.winning, if it happens, ok, but hiding behind "small market", is so transparent, it is insulting. i wish SOMEONE in the media would hold brandon's feet to the fire. do not let him get off the hook with comments like" i am not discussing the team's future after wilson passes".. WHY??? someone ask him why! somebody ask him if he thinks bills fans are that gullible that we settle for what is being presented to us.

[Best Player Available]

it sure seems like the bottom line is all that matters.winning, if it happens, ok, but hiding behind "small market", is so transparent, it is insulting. i wish SOMEONE in the media would hold brandon's feet to the fire. do not let him get off the hook with comments like" i am not discussing the team's future after wilson passes".. WHY??? someone ask him why! somebody ask him if he thinks bills fans are that gullible that we settle for what is being presented to us.

 

The reason Brandon makes comments like "I am not discussing the team's future after Wilson passes" is simple. Himself and all the other morons in the executive "inner circle" will be unemployed the day a new owner takes control. I cannot see a single one surviving an ownership change. For good reason too.

[dwight in philly]

The reason Brandon makes comments like "I am not discussing the team's future after Wilson passes" is simple. Himself and all the other morons in the executive "inner circle" will be unemployed the day a new owner takes control. I cannot see a single one surviving an ownership change. For good reason too.

that would not bother me, but i can see kelly and his group(if it ever came to fruition) keeping a lackey like brandon on board, if nothing else, he could be stashed in the marketing dept, where he belongs. but the rest, you are right, sweep them out!

[BringBackFlutie]

You know I don't think it was about Brandon "interviewing" one guy nor do I think it was about Ralph wanting to make all the decisions. If you listen to Ralph closely, it sounds like he has some serious fatigue about this team.

 

I think a lot of up and coming GM types would have crawled to Buffalo for the job. But I think once they heard who would "really" be running the show, they would have run away.

 

I think the rest of the NFL knows how the organization is really run. Remember, Polian worked in the NFL office for a year or so. And is very well respected. As opposed to anyone the Bills have hired.

 

How else can you explain the whole being steered away from Buffalo thing? It was important to the league that the Vick rehabilitation had every chance of succeeding. And that wasn't going to happen at Orchard Park. What does that tell you? Even the NFL believes the Bills in their present state are a lost cause. All the while paying deference to the owner for his role in the history of the league.

 

I believe Buddy is a good guy. But he is old school and he too believes that owners - especially old owners - need to be accommodated.

 

So I think unless we find accidental success - it's going to be same ol', same ol' around Orchard Park.

 

The guy I feel the worst for is Gailey and to a lesser extent Fitz. The decks are stacked against them.

 

C

 

 

I feel the worst for those two as well. I watch Chan in his press conferences and he sounds helpless and like after only two years he's catching on to the BS. Now he doesn't know how to overcome it.

[BillsVet]

I still think Ralph bears some responsibility - but the guy is on his last legs. He's entrusted the everyday running (of the non football side)of the franchise to the three headed monster of Littman, Overdorf and Brandon. If you look at the front office structure it appears the Treasurer is ahead of the CEO. That in itself should tell you something.

 

Littmann/Overdorf and Brandon to some extent presided over the worst period of football in Buffalo. And are constantly rewarded. Presumably because Littmann has made Ralph a lot of money.

 

It's not the GM, It's not the coach (I like this coach a lot, BTW - I think he's the best we've had since Marv) and it's not the QB. Though he's been awful lately, I think it will come out that he's been significantly injured since the Washington game.

 

A friend of mine who has been an USA Today reporter for a long time says the organization is being run into the ground by people who actively know what they're doing. Most of it is dictated by money and Ralph's kids. They want the most money possible for the franchise when Ralph dies. Anything that affects the long term bottom line of the franchise is not even up for discussion.

 

You can bet the cash spent on Fitz and Williams is going to be a huge issue this offseason. I think Fred Jackson is as good as gone after next season. Especially if he doesn't match this season's output.

 

All this to say I think we need to invest heavily on both lines this off season to be even competitive next season. But we're gonna rely on the draft to build the lines. And that is just going to screw us over next season - before we look for a new coach.

 

This is a very dysfunctional franchise - with no realistic long term plan. Or even short term for the matter.

 

Good coaching, creative offensive game planning and a healthy QB made the early part of the season for us. That and that he didn't have to hold the ball long. Once the WRs and OL got into a funk, it was over. That also masked our slightly above average DL.

 

But the talent and depth just isn't there to mask it anymore. For that we do need to spend and spend wisely ala Barnett.

 

But I don't think it's any accident that AJ and GMs of that generation are on the outs. Whaley is our only hope. That and that our FO sees the light soon or this franchise gets sold.

 

That's all I got.

 

C

 

Great thread OP. Everything suggests the family has taken over and are setting the team up for sale. When they struggled to find a GM and HC not two years ago that was evidence enough to me that no one wanted to work for them. Given the prestige of being a NFL GM or HC, the only thing I conclude is that people know what's happening at OBD and avoid it like the plague. That is, unless you're desperate to get back into the NFL and don't mind a Jeff Littmann cutting your personnel budget and Jim Overdorf trading your players.

[K-9]

If it wasn't a quasi-public monopoly, I wouldn't be so pissed off about it. Theoretically, owners of private companies should be allowed to do what they want with/to them. But to take our tax dollars and pocket them - that really gets my goat. Plus, as I've said before, even private companies aren't allowed to falsely advertise. Someone should sue the Bills and Wilson for deceptive trade practices/false advertising. Wouldn't be hard to find marketing materials promising (or impliedly promising) that the team's goal is to win. If management is as you say "actively" and intentionally running it into the ground to pocket short-term cash (as many of us have suspected), all the while telling consumers the opposite, they're breaking the law.

 

Good luck with that.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

The reason Brandon makes comments like "I am not discussing the team's future after Wilson passes" is simple. Himself and all the other morons in the executive "inner circle" will be unemployed the day a new owner takes control. I cannot see a single one surviving an ownership change. For good reason too.

I think that Brandon and everyone else realizes that it's in bad taste to entertain a discussion about what will happen after his boss dies… when he's still alive and kicking (at least with one leg).