dwight in philly Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) The funny thing was when I was watching the draft & they announce the bills traded up I am like cool, they are going to get Mangold. Then they announce Mccargo & even the guys on ESPN who try to sugarcoat everything were shocked. Seriously if Ralph really wants to save some money he should fire all his scouts & on draft day just bring in a chimpanzee from the Buffalo Zoo to throw darts at a dart board to see who we draft. I imagine the chimp could not do any worse. i do not want to beat the mccargo pick to death, but seriously, think about it, that has to rank up as one of the most bone-headed moves in the history of bills ineptness in the draft. it is not revisionist history or monday morning QB-ING of that draft, it was a horrible move. Edited December 12, 2011 by dwight in philly
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 The funny thing was when I was watching the draft & they announce the bills traded up I am like cool, they are going to get Mangold. Then they announce Mccargo & even the guys on ESPN who try to sugarcoat everything were shocked. Seriously if Ralph really wants to save some money he should fire all his scouts & on draft day just bring in a chimpanzee from the Buffalo Zoo to throw darts at a dart board to see who we draft. I imagine the chimp could not do any worse. That's funny. There was a chimp at the Buffalo Zoo, Eddie, who was brought in when the late Marlin Perkins (Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom) was the curator. Eddie lived into his 40s and was known to hurl his feces when he was angry. What many people don't know (and probably don't care because we are all venting here) is that the Bills have a new Director of Pro Personnel in Tom Gibbons and a new Director of College Scouting in Chuck Cook. Both of them were hired AFTER we fired Tom Modrak in April. The Bills have also made changes among their scouting department with a new hire and some re-assignments. So Buddy Nix has almost totally revamped the personnel department which he inherited less than two years ago.
PDaDdy Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 Patience people, this kid Troup is gonna be a monster. Never mind that he came from a girly man school and we could've taken him in the 3rd round anyway. And Rob Gronkowski, who went to Williamsville North, is built like a professional wrestler and was considered a top 10 overall talent before he got hurt in college was just sitting there and it appeared to be the most obvious pick since I've been watching drafts. Just wait folks, it'll work out for us just fine. I am always a Bills apologist and I hate when people dwell on past mistakes, but I'm sorry, I'll never get over this one. Never. It is what it is man. Many other teams do it as well but it seems we make wrong choices often enough. Everyone, myself included, wants to be a arm chair GM. We always do this stuff. I wanted Terrance Cody in that draft at that spot. He's the starting NT for the damn good Ravens defense now and Troup has ...well...been Troup. We always take the wrong guy and sometimes we seem to make it even worse after that! Orakpo was the far and away favorite top DE in the draft yet we decided to get a 8 game wonder, undersized DE with a quick first step. We then compounded the mistake by never giving the guy playing time and released him. Now we get to watch him sack our QB twice a year because the Jets actually put him in a game and wonders of wonders he can actually produce sacks. Good thing we got Shawne "Good Deal" Merriman which made Maybin expendable. And over and over and over again.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 i do not want to beat the mccargo pick to death, but seriously, think about it, that has to rank up as one of the most bone-headed moves in the history of bills ineptness in the draft. it is not revisionist history or monday morning QB-ING of that draft, it was a horrible move. There's no question. I think most of the time when a player is picked you can look at the national media reaction and add it to the fan reaction to determine (regardless of if the pick works out) whether it was a reach or not.
metzelaars_lives Posted December 12, 2011 Author Posted December 12, 2011 I'm not defending the Troup pick but who says he had "a history of chronic back problems?" I'm very skeptical of your claim considering that he played in 48 games in college and started 36. I find zero documentation that Troup had back problems before he was drafted. Donte Whitner and John McCargo… yes. Dez Bryant? Meh. As Metz suggests, there's the hindsight game (Graham)… and then there's the valid criticism of picks at the time that they were made. They're actually two different games. There was grumbling over the Spiller pick. I heard very little talk about Gronk when we passed him over and there was zero talk about Jimmy Graham when we passed him over. Speaking generally and not accusing anyone specifically, now that the team has crashed and burned, you'll start seeing a greater absence of perspective and a lot of revisionism. The Bills deserves criticism, but like our national political conversations, it doesn't mean that people shouldn't strive for fairness, objectivity, and truth. But who am I kidding? People need to vent and rage so the truth will be damned. Agreed whole-heartedly. "How did we pass on Brady six times" is a way different conversation than how in the world do you not take Ngata over Whitner or Orakpo over Maybin, which everyone on here would've suggested we do!?! That being said, being a Williamsville North grad myself (maybe I'm a little biased), it seemed like an absolute slam dunk to me. He was already considering "slipping" by the time we drafted in the 2nd round. He would've been a top half of the first round pick had it not been for the injury he sustained his junior year. We haven't had a legitimate tight since- what? Ernie Warlick? Oh yeah, Metzelaars.
dwight in philly Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 There's no question. I think most of the time when a player is picked you can look at the national media reaction and add it to the fan reaction to determine (regardless of if the pick works out) whether it was a reach or not. i guess the reason it sticks out more than others is that i watch the draft and i am not an expert or draftnick by any stretch, but when they traded to get the pick, then take him, it was maddening. i never heard of him ( which means nothing i suppose) , but i think most of us know enough of the first 1-2 round players that mccargo was not among them.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 i guess the reason it sticks out more than others is that i watch the draft and i am not an expert or draftnick by any stretch, but when they traded to get the pick, then take him, it was maddening. i never heard of him ( which means nothing i suppose) , but i think most of us know enough of the first 1-2 round players that mccargo was not among them. Agreed. We as fans are not that informed but fan reaction is still a bit of a barometer for reachness simply because of all the information that is available to us these days. Even the most expert of the media doesn't always know what the consensus of team scouts is thinking but the gap is closing every year in terms of the spread of "inside" information. The last draft pick I remember where everyone freaked out but it actually turned out somewhat decently was John Fina, who started at left tackle for us for 10 years. At the time the Bills drafted Fina, the reaction was a mix of underwhelmed, confused, and angered.
dwight in philly Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 Agreed. We as fans are not that informed but fan reaction is still a bit of a barometer for reachness simply because of all the information that is available to us these days. Even the most expert of the media doesn't always know what the consensus of team scouts is thinking but the gap is closing every year in terms of the spread of "inside" information. The last draft pick I remember where everyone freaked out but it actually turned out somewhat decently was John Fina, who started at left tackle for us for 10 years. At the time the Bills drafted Fina, the reaction was a mix of underwhelmed, confused, and angered. yea, i know, makes you wonder what they( national draft media) think of the bills "braintrust". i remember the reaction to the fina pick, you are right, was not greeted with much positive buzz and he did turn out to be decent. in addition, despite the fact maybin is functioning with the jets, it was another horrible pick. i think the point of all this is that more often than not, the bills have gotten it wrong.easy to say that i know, but the frustration level with the organization is reaching a point of no return for me.
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 It wouldn't be the first time the Bills got duped. Anybody remember when the Eagles hinted to the Bills that they were hot to trot for Perry Tuttle? So the Bills made a trade to move up ahead of them and nab the oh-so-great Tuttle -- .
dwight in philly Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) It wouldn't be the first time the Bills got duped. Anybody remember when the Eagles hinted to the Bills that they were hot to trot for Perry Tuttle? So the Bills made a trade to move up ahead of them and nab the oh-so-great Tuttle -- . and philly took mike quick! Edited December 12, 2011 by dwight in philly
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 and philly took mike quick! Who went to 5 Pro Bowls.
dwight in philly Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 Who went to 5 Pro Bowls. yep!, that could rank up there with the mccargo v-mangold, now that i think about it! tuttle instead of mike quick.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 Patience people, this kid Troup is gonna be a monster. Never mind that he came from a girly man school and we could've taken him in the 3rd round anyway. And Rob Gronkowski, who went to Williamsville North, is built like a professional wrestler and was considered a top 10 overall talent before he got hurt in college was just sitting there and it appeared to be the most obvious pick since I've been watching drafts. Just wait folks, it'll work out for us just fine. I am always a Bills apologist and I hate when people dwell on past mistakes, but I'm sorry, I'll never get over this one. Never. When I saw this thread I was ready to flame you with a barrel of Gasoline but I see that was used to get us to react. We totally should have drafted Grony but if we wanted a NT we should have drafted Terrence Cody who went to non girly man Alabama, destroyed O-lines and is now dominating for the Ravens. I love it when we pick these small school guys
BuffaloRebound Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 Taking Troup over Gronkowski is another in a long line of draft miscues. But Gronkowski would probably find a way to suck if we were on the Bills. This organization is that bad. As long as Ralph is the owner, we should do everything possible to get a franchise QB. That is the only thing that will compensate for how Ralph runs things.
coseybedaman Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 While I agree Troup is a total waste of space, lets not pretend that Gronkowski would be breaking any records as a Buffalo Bill. Scott Chandler has been a very bright spot for us this year. He is definitely a serviceable tight end for our offense. Its the wide receivers that are the joke of the NFL. These guys drop more passes than any group I have ever seen. We MUST MUST get a big time AJ Green, Julio Jones type of rookie receiver in my book. Stevie Johnson shows signs of greatness with long stretches of invisibility, and that is why he is a solid #2. Id love to see us get a sure handed monster on the other side. Nelson, Jones, Roosevelt can fight it out for #3 time.
Beerball Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 Eddie lived into his 40s and was known to hurl his feces when he was angry. No, I'm quite sure his name is Tom.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 No, I'm quite sure his name is Tom. LOL, as in Modrak? BTW, I found a link on old Eddie. He apparently was stuffed and belongs to the Buffalo Museum of Science Ape Collection. Maybe they should set him up in the war room on draft day. Couldn't hurt.
dwight in philly Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 That's funny. There was a chimp at the Buffalo Zoo, Eddie, who was brought in when the late Marlin Perkins (Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom) was the curator. Eddie lived into his 40s and was known to hurl his feces when he was angry. What many people don't know (and probably don't care because we are all venting here) is that the Bills have a new Director of Pro Personnel in Tom Gibbons and a new Director of College Scouting in Chuck Cook. Both of them were hired AFTER we fired Tom Modrak in April. The Bills have also made changes among their scouting department with a new hire and some re-assignments. So Buddy Nix has almost totally revamped the personnel department which he inherited less than two years ago. i wish eddie was alive and we could take him to OBD and let him hurl his feces.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 i wish eddie was alive and we could take him to OBD and let him hurl his feces. Or bring him out for the GameDay Experience in the Field House before games. Fans could get his autograph and join him in hurling poop against a draft board.
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