Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 Watching NFL total access on how their Defense has been horrible for years and now they have the top ranked defense. They asked the players what has been the difference and without hesitation they said Wade Phllips. They asked them what he has done and Conner Barwin said he switched us to a 34, keeps it simple and agressive, puts them in positon to succeed and trusts his players. Now I am not saying we could have brought Wade in with Ralph's eternal grudge holding (see Lou Saban) but we should be doing the same thing. How simple do you think it is for all our rookies and second years players to be playing this dumb "Hybrid" defense when they have to learn a 34 and a 43? How aggressive have we been in our blitzing (um not much)? How was Maybin put into position to succeed when they didn't trust him to be out there? Well news flash Bills, sometimes guys don't get it right away or may never have it but at least let them do what they do well and now Maybin has six sacks for the Jets as pass rush specialist. Chan said they just couldn't afford to have a player with his liabilities out there, to which I agree but we should have at least let him Blitz and just focus on rushing and hope the other stuff comes around. Bottom line is Edwards and much of the D- staff needs to go and get a guy in here who can simplify our D and let our players play instinctively and not be thinking about what they supposed to be doing. If Wade can switch to 34 in one year we should be able to do it in 3 .
Nanker Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 Two things: 1. It's not Ralph's eternal grudge. Wade wouldn't come back to Buffalo to be a coach of any kind after he had to sue Ralph to get the money due him on his contract when he was "Fired - not Quit". 2. The Texans' have a lot more talent on their Defense than do The Bills.
sllib olaffub Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 I think the point of the post is to say that Buffalo should be able to have a successful 3-4 defense after two years, and especially next year, even if we have a year 1 D-Coordinator, on account of having 3 drafts to run it. On that point, I agree. I think, given the right coordinator/GM combo, from the start, with input from the coordinator on who he needed to fill which positions most - the Bills could have fielded a mid-level defense last year. This year, after two drafts, they should have been able to field a top 10 defense - with the right Coordinator/GM tandem working together. Wade Phillips is one of the better Coordinators in the league, and he walked into a defense that had, before the draft, some quality, early round players on it. What did he do with the draft? I don't recall all his picks, but I know he went out and made sure he had some OLB material. IMO, NT, LB's as a group, especially OLB, and a good CB are necessary to run a 3-4. You've got to have a run stuffer in the middle, a big guy capable of demanding double teams. You've got to have excellent linebackers at least one of whom can apply some heat, and you've got to have a quality cover man. I laugh as I sit here writing this - but, it seems like in two years, Dareus and Carrinton are the only really good picks the Bills have made in the front seven. Sheppard looks like he might be good, but he's not ever going to make the difference on his own. In two drafts it looks like Buddy either believes late round LB's are enough to run a 3-4, or he is beginning at the D-line, and working his way back, with what appears to be a 5 year plan, or so. If the Bills would have insisted on a top level D-Coordinator, we wouldn't be having these posts. Until they are ready to accept they have to pay to get the good Coordinators, they'll have to wait until they get lucky on undiscovered talents, which we haven't had any luck with as far as coaches go - and, once we get any coaches with any talent, the one constant seems to be they all leave town sooner than later, and none are willing to come back (except Marv), even if they were paid great. That says all I need to know where the problem lies with this organization, and it is but one of many trails leading to The Man.
aristocrat Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 you know what they have? Great linebackers who can get after the qb and stop the run. If we start drafting lb's that can play at a high level you will see our defense get better. Barnett is about the only one worth something so I would be very happy to spend the first couple picks on lb's this off season.
1billsfan Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 you know what they have? Great linebackers who can get after the qb and stop the run. If we start drafting lb's that can play at a high level you will see our defense get better. Barnett is about the only one worth something so I would be very happy to spend the first couple picks on lb's this off season. Wow, Great Blue North has 7 LBs going in the first round... http://www.gbnreport.com/2012projection.html Draft Upshaw in the first and a LB that falls to us in the second. Sounds like a plan!
Gray Beard Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 If the Bills would have insisted on a top level D-Coordinator, we wouldn't be having these posts. Until they are ready to accept they have to pay to get the good Coordinators, they'll have to wait until they get lucky on undiscovered talents, which we haven't had any luck with as far as coaches go - and, once we get any coaches with any talent, the one constant seems to be they all leave town sooner than later, and none are willing to come back (except Marv), even if they were paid great. That says all I need to know where the problem lies with this organization, and it is but one of many trails leading to The Man. "They" may never be ready to accept that "they" have to pay to get the good Coordinators. That as the issue.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 When we were 4-3, we had to switch to 3-4. Now we have to be 4-3 again? PTR
thewildrabbit Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 Watching NFL total access on how their Defense has been horrible for years and now they have the top ranked defense. They asked the players what has been the difference and without hesitation they said Wade Phllips. They asked them what he has done and Conner Barwin said he switched us to a 34, keeps it simple and agressive, puts them in positon to succeed and trusts his players. Now I am not saying we could have brought Wade in with Ralph's eternal grudge holding (see Lou Saban) but we should be doing the same thing. How simple do you think it is for all our rookies and second years players to be playing this dumb "Hybrid" defense when they have to learn a 34 and a 43? How aggressive have we been in our blitzing (um not much)? How was Maybin put into position to succeed when they didn't trust him to be out there? Well news flash Bills, sometimes guys don't get it right away or may never have it but at least let them do what they do well and now Maybin has six sacks for the Jets as pass rush specialist. Chan said they just couldn't afford to have a player with his liabilities out there, to which I agree but we should have at least let him Blitz and just focus on rushing and hope the other stuff comes around. Bottom line is Edwards and much of the D- staff needs to go and get a guy in here who can simplify our D and let our players play instinctively and not be thinking about what they supposed to be doing. If Wade can switch to 34 in one year we should be able to do it in 3 . The OP makes a great point when he states that all the Texans did to make their 30th ranked defense into the top defense in the league this year, was to hire Wade Phillips! I don't shiv a git what anyone says about how lacking the Bills defense is in player talent, its a bunch of crap. Look at the Texans who were 30th in total defense last year, and all their fans were also complaining they didn't have the "talent" Then the Texans hire a stud DC and he transforms them into a dominate defense in ONE YEAR!! Not some 5 year plan to find more talent, which is the going excuse when teams fail to produce. This has been the failing of this franchise since HC Marv levy as he was the only one with enough balls and confidence in himself as a head coach to find and hire a great OC in Ted Marchibroda. That was the sole reason that vaunted Bills offense of the 90's was #1 in the NFL was because of ole Ted! Marv didn't know squat about offense or defense, his specialty was special teams. Before Marv stepped down as HC he also offered Tom Coughlin a job as DC, Coughlin took a job as HC instead. Going back to Chuck Knox who came into Buffalo and turned around the team with a mediocre QB, drafted a RB and ran to set up the pass. Ground Chuck they called him, built a playoff team out of nobody's in 2 years. . Took a bunch of young players that had no clue how to win, brought in some veteran players to show them how. Its the coaches that make the difference between bad-good teams and great teams. Behind every super bowl winning team there are top coaches that got them there! While I also believe the ability to find talent is also a big factor, usually the smartest coaches also have the ability to find the best players. Look at the Steelers who don't ever get their first round draft pick wrong, they don't miss on coaches either. They have the very best 3-4 DC in the NFL, and he has their defense in the top 5 every year. I also think he has great input into who the draft. Bottom line is: this team needs both a top OC & DC. Gailey can manage the game but he needs someone else calling plays.
aristocrat Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 You know what happened to their defense? Last season cushing was suspended for the roids and demeco ryans was put on ir early in the year. Then they go and draft jj watt and brooks reed in the second round. These guys have combined 10.5 sacks and almost 80 tackles...rookies. Imagine when they get a couple years under their belt. Buddy needs to take cues from this draft. You can also look at the texans draft history and they draft a lot of defense high.
thewildrabbit Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 You know what happened to their defense? Last season cushing was suspended for the roids and demeco ryans was put on ir early in the year. Then they go and draft jj watt and brooks reed in the second round. These guys have combined 10.5 sacks and almost 80 tackles...rookies. Imagine when they get a couple years under their belt. Buddy needs to take cues from this draft. You can also look at the texans draft history and they draft a lot of defense high. Yea well, in 2009 the Texans were tied at 13th with the NY Giants for total defense. Huge difference from being middle of the pack to #1 overall. On that matter the 2009 Buffalo Bills were 19th in total D under Jauron -Fewell, and the run defense got better with Fewell as HC. To the abosoulate worst defense against the run in the history of the franchise under George Edwards, and Gailey retained him. Perhaps because that Jauron build secondary was #3 in overall yards allowed in 2010. I suppose all those DB's that Jauron drafted finally made an impact! But then what happened this season? The very same DB coach that was with the Bills under Jauron is still here under Edwards. This year the Bills are 19th in passing yardage allowed 24th in rushing yardage allowed and 22 in overall total defense. If you watched any of the games this year that Bills 22nd ranked defense sure looked worse then 22nd against Dallas-Miami- Jets. They played better last week against the Titans missing several key players on defense, go figure. The Buffalo Bills could spend their entire allotted draft picks all on defense for the next 5 years and I highly doubt that defense will ever be a top defense under George Edwards
NoSaint Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 We MUST get LBs Wade always has a great first year. It's an odd thing that he seems to do best right out of the gate. He's one of the, if not the, only guy I've seen swap teams to 34 without a 1-2 year curve.
billsfan714 Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 The also signed Manning and Joseph to upgrade their secondary. I agree that things can turn around quickly if you get the right coordinator, stay awake in free agency and address your rush in the draft. Are you listening Buddy and Chan?
KD in CA Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 When we were 4-3, we had to switch to 3-4. Now we have to be 4-3 again? PTR I don't understand all the details of each scheme, but I never understood how a team with no true NT and a weak LB corp (other than at the time a true MLB) would opt to change away from the 4-3.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 Two things: 1. It's not Ralph's eternal grudge. Wade wouldn't come back to Buffalo to be a coach of any kind after he had to sue Ralph to get the money due him on his contract when he was "Fired - not Quit". 2. The Texans' have a lot more talent on their Defense than do The Bills. You know what happened to their defense? Last season cushing was suspended for the roids and demeco ryans was put on ir early in the year. Then they go and draft jj watt and brooks reed in the second round. These guys have combined 10.5 sacks and almost 80 tackles...rookies. Imagine when they get a couple years under their belt. Buddy needs to take cues from this draft. You can also look at the texans draft history and they draft a lot of defense high. The also signed Manning and Joseph to upgrade their secondary. I agree that things can turn around quickly if you get the right coordinator, stay awake in free agency and address your rush in the draft. Are you listening Buddy and Chan? Yeah, no one's going to say that Phillips isn't a better coach than Edwards. But the difference in talent is vast. It goes back as far as 2006 when Houston drafted Mario Williams first overall and then DeMeco Ryans (2nd) but in the last three years, they've made a big push. In 2009 they signed DE Antonio Smith as a free agent and then drafted Cushing (1st), Connor Barwin (2nd) and cornerback Glover Quinn (4th). In 2010 the drafted CB Kareem Jackson in the first round. In 2011 they drafted JJ Watt in the first and Brooks Reed in the 2nd and signed free agents Jonathan Joseph and Danieal Manning. Point is, the Texans have invested heavily via the draft and free agency, in defense. And they appear to be a very well-run organization.
NewEra Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 1323531617[/url]' post='2332325']You know what happened to their defense? Last season cushing was suspended for the roids and demeco ryans was put on ir early in the year. Then they go and draft jj watt and brooks reed in the second round. These guys have combined 10.5 sacks and almost 80 tackles...rookies. Imagine when they get a couple years under their belt. Buddy needs to take cues from this draft. You can also look at the texans draft history and they draft a lot of defense high. That helps. The biggest difference maker in their defense is wade Phillips. And it's not even close. Factor in their best player missing most of the season (Mario Williams). Coordinators make all the difference. Dick Lebeau turns every player he gets his hands on into a player. Dom capers and wade are similar. It's upsetting to know we had both LeBeau and Phillips.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) When we were 4-3, we had to switch to 3-4. Now we have to be 4-3 again? PTR See, I wasn't really a fan of switching to the 3-4 in the first place because the majority of teams played the 3-4. I like being in the minority because it makes other teams take up time gameplanning the difference. I also think Williams and Dareus would be better as 4-3 DTs. And given how terrible our OLBs have been, we might have to replace all of them anyways. IMO, it won't really require much enough to make the switch. I'd also try like hell to get Del Rio to be the DC as well. He had the #4 defense (before he got fired) and had the worst overall offense in the NFL. That's really impressive to be that good when your offense is going 3 and out all the time. Edited December 10, 2011 by C.Biscuit97
NoSaint Posted December 10, 2011 Posted December 10, 2011 That helps. The biggest difference maker in their defense is wade Phillips. And it's not even close. Factor in their best player missing most of the season (Mario Williams). Coordinators make all the difference. Dick Lebeau turns every player he gets his hands on into a player. Dom capers and wade are similar. It's upsetting to know we had both LeBeau and Phillips. It's a combo. Elite coordinators typically go to talented squads, dictate player selection towards their side more, etc.... if you think a george Edwards has the pull in the draft and FA that those guys do... They are obviously better but if they traded squads on Sunday, I don't think we suddenly are top notch and the steelers packers or texans fall apart.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 11, 2011 Author Posted December 11, 2011 The OP makes a great point when he states that all the Texans did to make their 30th ranked defense into the top defense in the league this year, was to hire Wade Phillips! I don't shiv a git what anyone says about how lacking the Bills defense is in player talent, its a bunch of crap. Look at the Texans who were 30th in total defense last year, and all their fans were also complaining they didn't have the "talent" Then the Texans hire a stud DC and he transforms them into a dominate defense in ONE YEAR!! Not some 5 year plan to find more talent, which is the going excuse when teams fail to produce. This has been the failing of this franchise since HC Marv levy as he was the only one with enough balls and confidence in himself as a head coach to find and hire a great OC in Ted Marchibroda. That was the sole reason that vaunted Bills offense of the 90's was #1 in the NFL was because of ole Ted! Marv didn't know squat about offense or defense, his specialty was special teams. Before Marv stepped down as HC he also offered Tom Coughlin a job as DC, Coughlin took a job as HC instead. Going back to Chuck Knox who came into Buffalo and turned around the team with a mediocre QB, drafted a RB and ran to set up the pass. Ground Chuck they called him, built a playoff team out of nobody's in 2 years. . Took a bunch of young players that had no clue how to win, brought in some veteran players to show them how. Its the coaches that make the difference between bad-good teams and great teams. Behind every super bowl winning team there are top coaches that got them there! While I also believe the ability to find talent is also a big factor, usually the smartest coaches also have the ability to find the best players. Look at the Steelers who don't ever get their first round draft pick wrong, they don't miss on coaches either. They have the very best 3-4 DC in the NFL, and he has their defense in the top 5 every year. I also think he has great input into who the draft. Bottom line is: this team needs both a top OC & DC. Gailey can manage the game but he needs someone else calling plays. Thank you! Mike Sherman and Kevin Greene. Actually wanted Jim Harbough because he is old school smashmouth and even uses a TE and a Fullback to block, what a novel idea. However I knew we wouldn't go after him with just getting Chan, I just wish Chan would stop abandoning the run and got a a real DC. You know what happened to their defense? Last season cushing was suspended for the roids and demeco ryans was put on ir early in the year. Then they go and draft jj watt and brooks reed in the second round. These guys have combined 10.5 sacks and almost 80 tackles...rookies. Imagine when they get a couple years under their belt. Buddy needs to take cues from this draft. You can also look at the texans draft history and they draft a lot of defense high. So do we, we just can't develop them or draft busts. Last years top 3 (Dareus, Williams, Sheppard)gives me hope that maybe we can finally start drafting right. Was hoping that we would draft Brooks in the second and actually thought Watt would have been just as good as Dareus minus the size.
NoSaint Posted December 11, 2011 Posted December 11, 2011 Thank you! Mike Sherman and Kevin Greene. Actually wanted Jim Harbough because he is old school smashmouth and even uses a TE and a Fullback to block, what a novel idea. However I knew we wouldn't go after him with just getting Chan, I just wish Chan would stop abandoning the run and got a a real DC. So do we, we just can't develop them or draft busts. Last years top 3 (Dareus, Williams, Sheppard)gives me hope that maybe we can finally start drafting right. Was hoping that we would draft Brooks in the second and actually thought Watt would have been just as good as Dareus minus the size. Harbaugh turned down the interview before we hired chan.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 11, 2011 Author Posted December 11, 2011 Harbaugh turned down the interview before we hired chan. Guess Ralph should have offered him 10 mil.
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