B-Large Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 So there are about 100 Union Capenters walking in a circle with signs that read "unfair" outside the new 500M building we are putting up right now, operational circa end of 2012. Come to find out the GC hired a company with non union woodchucks to so the trim carpentry in the building among other tasks..... the Union guys were at least twice as expensive.... I know the owner of the company that won the bid on the building, and he said his company has been taking jobs at "breakeven" for years now just to keep their guys working, and the company afloat.... Instead of negotiating on price, the Union decided to protest instead of taking work.... When will these guys learn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggieScooby Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Learn what? Disband their union? Go it alone? No that would be too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Learn what? Disband their union? Go it alone? No that would be too easy. I think he was hoping that they might learn something about math. 100% of "0" = "0". 50% of whatever = something. If they aren't smart enough to figure that out, who would want them constructing a building? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I think he was hoping that they might learn something about math. 100% of "0" = "0". 50% of whatever = something. If they aren't smart enough to figure that out, who would want them constructing a building? You can't put a price on principle. Which is also why you can't buy food or pay the rent with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Why isnt Hospital management putting out a press release with those facts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggieScooby Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I think he was hoping that they might learn something about math. 100% of "0" = "0". 50% of whatever = something. If they aren't smart enough to figure that out, who would want them constructing a building? No one said unions are dumb. My friend is a union iron worker. Watching the tv shows around 9/11 about the freedom tower I was struck by all the union workers on that job. The Mohawk Indians are unionized and come down from near the Canadian border to work. The Irish and Italians were born into the iron worker trade as well. I think from a comrodary stand point groups of people band together. If they lose a job because they want a certain price fine, do they have a right to protest, sure. Union quality beats cheapest price. There are 3 things in business: Quality, Price, & Speed, unions offer quality work and on average work faster, they are not the lowest price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 ...unions offer quality work and on average work faster, they are not the lowest price. When you can actually get them to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 No one said unions are dumb. My friend is a union iron worker. Watching the tv shows around 9/11 about the freedom tower I was struck by all the union workers on that job. The Mohawk Indians are unionized and come down from near the Canadian border to work. The Irish and Italians were born into the iron worker trade as well. I think from a comrodary stand point groups of people band together. If they lose a job because they want a certain price fine, do they have a right to protest, sure. Union quality beats cheapest price. There are 3 things in business: Quality, Price, & Speed, unions offer quality work and on average work faster, they are not the lowest price. Did those TV programs also show the union workers on those jobs collecting pay for not showing up to work? Because I know a lot of those guys too. As for quality, speed, price - that's a bunch of baloney. Take a look at the time, quality, cost it takes to put up a similar building, road, etc in NY vs Texas. You may want to ask why it takes 10 years to rebuild a 2 mile stretch of highway in Brooklyn at a multiple billion $$ price tag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 No one said unions are dumb. My friend is a union iron worker. Watching the tv shows around 9/11 about the freedom tower I was struck by all the union workers on that job. The Mohawk Indians are unionized and come down from near the Canadian border to work. The Irish and Italians were born into the iron worker trade as well. I think from a comrodary stand point groups of people band together. If they lose a job because they want a certain price fine, do they have a right to protest, sure. Union quality beats cheapest price. There are 3 things in business: Quality, Price, & Speed, unions offer quality work and on average work faster, they are not the lowest price. Wrong. I said they were dumb. In reality they are not all dumb though. I have numerous friends that are in the trade unions. Union workers do not necessarily produce higher quality work and/or work faster. Some of their work rules actually inhibit speed of construction. Some non union workers are that way because they want to be non union. My preaching won't change your mind. Instead, if you want to learn something, research why Niagara Falls, NY is such a shithole. One of the reasons has to do with government. Another big reason has to do with the chokehold that the construction unions have there. When you are done, come back and tell me how good the unions are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 No one said unions are dumb. My friend is a union iron worker. Watching the tv shows around 9/11 about the freedom tower I was struck by all the union workers on that job. The Mohawk Indians are unionized and come down from near the Canadian border to work. The Irish and Italians were born into the iron worker trade as well. I think from a comrodary stand point groups of people band together. If they lose a job because they want a certain price fine, do they have a right to protest, sure. Union quality beats cheapest price. There are 3 things in business: Quality, Price, & Speed, unions offer quality work and on average work faster, they are not the lowest price. No offense Scoob, but virtually everything you wrote above serves only to prove you have no idea what you're talking about. There's a difference between having a friend who is a union worker and actually running a company that has to hire union workers at a job due to state laws and regulations. Additionally, you're trying to apply the basic private business jargon of "Good, quick, cheap...pick two" to a group of workers who are led by people who care little about any of those three items. You'd also do well to not try to push the ridiculous notion that the reason union workers are more expensive is because the quality of their work fetches the higher dollar. Simply ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggieScooby Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) Wrong. I said they were dumb. In reality they are not all dumb though. I have numerous friends that are in the trade unions. Union workers do not necessarily produce higher quality work and/or work faster. Some of their work rules actually inhibit speed of construction. Some non union workers are that way because they want to be non union. My preaching won't change your mind. Instead, if you want to learn something, research why Niagara Falls, NY is such a shithole. One of the reasons has to do with government. Another big reason has to do with the chokehold that the construction unions have there. When you are done, come back and tell me how good the unions are. Any work rule that prohibits speed is simply aimed toward improving worker safety - through reasonable hours, but who cares about safety right? Niagara Falls, NY is what it is, not because of unions, but because of a lack of leadership (democrats, independents, and republicans). What plagues WNY & Niagara Falls, is political infighting and lack of a strategic vision. Look across the border to our Liberal Canadian friends and you'll see a much better run city. Funny that the biggest boost to Niagara Falls, NY is a business known as Seneca Falls Casino. Unfortunately those who run Niagara Falls, NY do not tax this entity. As for my postion on unions, I am an advocate of cooperatives which are business organizations owned and operated by a group of individuals for their mutual benefit. Did those TV programs also show the union workers on those jobs collecting pay for not showing up to work? Because I know a lot of those guys too. As for quality, speed, price - that's a bunch of baloney. Take a look at the time, quality, cost it takes to put up a similar building, road, etc in NY vs Texas. You may want to ask why it takes 10 years to rebuild a 2 mile stretch of highway in Brooklyn at a multiple billion $$ price tag? It's easy to build a road in a place that doesn't have millions of people. I can go out to "podunk" Texas desert and build a 2 mile highway a lot faster. Also true, it's a lot easier when my entire workforce will be undocumented workers who will work longer hours for a very low wage. I love the race to the bottom! Edited December 8, 2011 by BiggieScooby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Any work rule that prohibits speed is simply aimed toward improving worker safety - through reasonable hours, but who cares about safety right? Posts like this always make me hear, in the back of my head, Michael Corleone saying "Oh, Kay...now who's being naive?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 It's easy to build a road in a place that doesn't have millions of people. I can go out to "podunk" Texas desert and build a 2 mile highway a lot faster. Also true, it's a lot easier when my entire workforce will be undocumented workers who will work longer hours for a very low wage. I love the race to the bottom! Yes, a highway in middle of pudunk Dallas takes a decade and uses undocumented aliens for work crews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Any work rule that prohibits speed is simply aimed toward improving worker safety - through reasonable hours, but who cares about safety right? Niagara Falls, NY is what it is, not because of unions, but because of a lack of leadership (democrats, independents, and republicans). What plagues WNY & Niagara Falls, is political infighting and lack of a strategic vision. Look across the border to our Liberal Canadian friends and you'll see a much better run city. Funny that the biggest boost to Niagara Falls, NY is a business known as Seneca Falls Casino. Unfortunately those who run Niagara Falls, NY do not tax this entity. As for my postion on unions, I am an advocate of cooperatives which are business organizations owned and operated by a group of individuals for their mutual benefit. It's easy to build a road in a place that doesn't have millions of people. I can go out to "podunk" Texas desert and build a 2 mile highway a lot faster. Also true, it's a lot easier when my entire workforce will be undocumented workers who will work longer hours for a very low wage. I love the race to the bottom! I figured you would respond in similar fashion to this. Niagara Falls, NY is a terrible place to do business in. Labor costs are extremely high there. If a building costs a million dollars (material and labor) it will cost 1.6 million there. You can attribute this to the unions. That city has lost out on alot of projects due to unions. BTW, your first sentence is absolutely laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Any work rule that prohibits speed is simply aimed toward improving worker safety - through reasonable hours, but who cares about safety right? Niagara Falls, NY is what it is, not because of unions, but because of a lack of leadership (democrats, independents, and republicans). What plagues WNY & Niagara Falls, is political infighting and lack of a strategic vision. Look across the border to our Liberal Canadian friends and you'll see a much better run city. Funny that the biggest boost to Niagara Falls, NY is a business known as Seneca Falls Casino. Unfortunately those who run Niagara Falls, NY do not tax this entity. As for my postion on unions, I am an advocate of cooperatives which are business organizations owned and operated by a group of individuals for their mutual benefit. It's easy to build a road in a place that doesn't have millions of people. I can go out to "podunk" Texas desert and build a 2 mile highway a lot faster. Also true, it's a lot easier when my entire workforce will be undocumented workers who will work longer hours for a very low wage. I love the race to the bottom! You're an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 This past year I worked on two projects in seperate areas of NY that used union electricians, one was new construction, one was a rehab. In both places wiring was left unsecured causing shorts, wire nuts falling off, etc. These aren't isolated incidents. Anytime we were required to hire union to "assist" us, we ended up having to redo a lot of the work they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggieScooby Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 You're an idiot. Question do you take money to live in Alaska? This past year I worked on two projects in seperate areas of NY that used union electricians, one was new construction, one was a rehab. In both places wiring was left unsecured causing shorts, wire nuts falling off, etc. These aren't isolated incidents. Anytime we were required to hire union to "assist" us, we ended up having to redo a lot of the work they did. I work with unions and don't have this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 I think he was hoping that they might learn something about math. 100% of "0" = "0". 50% of whatever = something. If they aren't smart enough to figure that out, who would want them constructing a building? Exactly... A years worth of work, in a development dry ecomony, when just about any company is scrapping by..... I get the fair pay in boom times thing..... But in bad times, be flexible.... Geeezzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanM.D. Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 This past year I worked on two projects in seperate areas of NY that used union electricians, one was new construction, one was a rehab. In both places wiring was left unsecured causing shorts, wire nuts falling off, etc. These aren't isolated incidents. Anytime we were required to hire union to "assist" us, we ended up having to redo a lot of the work they did. required....there's the problem. Even if "I" stink at what I do, you 'have' to hire me (at least some of the time)? Exactly... A years worth of work, in a development dry ecomony, when just about any company is scrapping by..... I get the fair pay in boom times thing..... But in bad times, be flexible.... Geeezzz Amen. Common sense should prevail...but if the employers are 'required' to hire certain groups any flexibility goes out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggieScooby Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 The anti-union rhetoric won't stop until they cease to exist, find something else to whine about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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