Future of the Bills roster

[sllib olaffub]

I could answer this post in a few different ways. There's a lot of talk about how the Bills have been rebuilding for about 20 years now, and that is true. So, what is missing with the Bills that other teams have? I can point it out to everyone - think Steelers, Patriots, Indy, New Orleans, Green Bay - the best teams in the league, teams that can sustain years of good football. THEY ALL ARE BUILT AROUND AN EXCELLENT QB!!!!!

 

Sure, you can win without one - but look at Buffalo - since Kelly left we've been nothing. You can win without one if the other parts of the team are ridiculously good, defense and running, special teams. But, an excellent QB - just like an excellent coach - can mask the deficiencies of a team to a greater extent than any other position. Buffalo has lacked an excellent coach and an excellent QB since we were in our glory years.

That is why I say forget Fitzpatrick - let him be a mentor to a young QB who will give this Franchise hope. The Bills need to do whatever they have to to get that elite QB. So what if they risk losing the good part of a draft; without that QB we will face losing seasons over and over anyway. Besides - I don't want to have been a fan through this muck of two decades only to finally see us winning with a mediocre QB. I want us to finally get some real dynamite!

 

I ask myself, who on this Buffalo team is really, truly an exciting player? Who would I build a team around? My response, to building a team around - Dareus and Williams in the middle, Freddy in the backfield, Wood, Levitre, Hairston, and some of the young secondary. Everyone else is interchangeable. But, no matter what we've looked like in the last few weeks - the right coach, the right GM, the right draft and Free Agency period next year could put us right in there fighting for the division. It really should be put up or get out time next year for Nix and Gailey. There's just no way they should exit year three of their "rebuild" without getting a top QB and having some excitement and promise here. Detroit lost for a decade - and look, they've finally got the pieces to challenge for contention for the next few years. Other teams have done it.

 

Futility is at least acceptable if in the end we get stronger for it. Futility for almost two decades with nothing to show for it suggests the guys upstairs - at the top - can't do it no matter how long you give them.

Edited December 8, 2011 by sllib olaffub

[T master]

What your post says to me is just pretty much what Nix is trying to do , weed out some players that he thinks weren't worth there draft spot as far as production like Lil Donte & bring in others like Williams & Searcy that will be better at those positions weather starting or depth while increasing the size & strength of our secondary ....

 

You put in Sheppard , Dareus , & a couple of other good draft picks like a pass rusher weather it's at LB or DE & add a good OLB & i think our D jumps up quite a bit which is Nix plan all along to build through the draft .

 

Bring in a Barnett in FA & i think the Merriman thing although cut short proved to be a good pick up in FA because before he went down our D was much better because even though he wasn't 100% D coordinators still had to game plan for him which gave other players on our D a chance to do good things plus Merriman did have some pass rush ability .

 

Contrary to what some Bills fans think but then again i just consider the where those comments are coming from Which when they come from some that lick windows & ride the short bus need i say any more ???? But those Bills fans are special !!!

[Paup 1995MVP]

Yes if they don't make legitimate progress next year then Chan can't get it done. You can be good with the X's and O's but that's just part of it. The Bills of the mid-2000's were not bereft of talent, but they were not mentally tough. When things went bad, they got worse. The past two seasons that has been the case with Chan. People tend to forget that the last few games of last year were horrendous showings by the Bills.

I think Chan is soft. You are exactly correct. We got distroyed by the Jets and Patriots. Our roster lacks top end talent at every position except RB where Freddie is something special. I think Wood can be a top Center if he can ever stay healthy, and Levitre is not far behind him. After that, NOONE jumps out at you on the roster as being anything special. Teams that don't have top end talent need to be mean and ornery like a junkyard dog. Very difficult to play against. We just do not have that mentality, that we might lose, but we will definitely beat you up along the way. Look at our defense. Does anyone play like they really want to hurt someone? Noone does. Our d line is the most passive in the league. When do you ever see Dareus, Carrington, Edwards, Johnson, Heard or any of the linebackers just slam someone to the ground, get in someone's face, or just plain reek havoc on the other team? It NEVER happens. That is the coaching staffs mentality put on the players. Football is a violent game. The Bills do not play with any aggresion. Until the attitude of this team changes, we will be bottom feeders. Even though the Dolphins are 4-8, watch the attitude that they play with. It starts with the coaches and filters down to the players. Does anyone else agree?

[buffalover4life]

Offensive keepers are Fitz, Jackson, Johnson, Wood, Leveitre, Hairston, and Chandler.

Defensive keepers are Kyle Williams, Dareus, Barnet, Byrd, and maybe A. Williams, Sheppard and Searcy.

 

Everybody else sucks !!

I would add David Nelson and George Wilson to your list.

[Dennis in NC]

I think Chan is soft. You are exactly correct. We got distroyed by the Jets and Patriots. Our roster lacks top end talent at every position except RB where Freddie is something special. I think Wood can be a top Center if he can ever stay healthy, and Levitre is not far behind him. After that, NOONE jumps out at you on the roster as being anything special. Teams that don't have top end talent need to be mean and ornery like a junkyard dog. Very difficult to play against. We just do not have that mentality, that we might lose, but we will definitely beat you up along the way. Look at our defense. Does anyone play like they really want to hurt someone? Noone does. Our d line is the most passive in the league. When do you ever see Dareus, Carrington, Edwards, Johnson, Heard or any of the linebackers just slam someone to the ground, get in someone's face, or just plain reek havoc on the other team? It NEVER happens. That is the coaching staffs mentality put on the players. Football is a violent game. The Bills do not play with any aggresion. Until the attitude of this team changes, we will be bottom feeders. Even though the Dolphins are 4-8, watch the attitude that they play with. It starts with the coaches and filters down to the players. Does anyone else agree?

Paup, I absolutely agree.

 

I have lost a lot of respect for Chan with the way he has let this team tumble. He is no longer my hero.

 

And to Dick Drawn, this is a great thread. So much rational thought in one post on TSW is rather stunning.

 

There are a few fans that could run a pretty good war room, and draft the right guys, the unglamorous guys that are the foundation of a strong team.

 

Maybe the new white helmets should have had a "L" on the front, just above the face mask...

[BADOLBILZ]

How many times have we all heard the line "In three years" or "In five years"?

 

I am so sick of that BS as well as that stupid word "rebuilding"

 

We havent gotten better in over 10 years so obviously we need a new architect because our "rebuilding" sucks.

 

We need to think about now and not plan ahead 3-5 years.

 

Again, that's not what I am saying in the post. It's not about waiting, it's about building a team like the objective is primarily to win long term.

 

If you're in the "we need a cornerback in round 1" camp then you are definitely buying in to the Bills "lose now and lose later" approach of the past 15 years or so.

[BillsVet]

Thank you. It basically comes down to realizing that when you draft to patch holes you never get ahead. The Bills have cornered the market on drafting players in round one that should be able to step right in and play at a high level........but don't. Why draft a QB who might have to sit on the bench for a season? Why draft a LT who could struggle as a rookie? Running backs and DB's are needs......and they can make an immediate impact......even if it's just returning kicks.......right?

 

I have a good friend who is an Eagles fan living near Philly and he has basically been enjoying an era of winning that is very similar to the run the Bills had from late 80's thru 1999. The Eagles are following the Bills plan for failure. Get small, get your QB killed and get your coach fired so you can switch offenses and defenses and basically eliminate the culture of winning that you built over the course of a decade.

 

Across the past few GM's, one constant displays itself: using the draft to replace departed players. If maintenance was the objective, the Bills would be the experts in continuing to be mediocre. They've won at least 4 but no more than 9 games for 10 seasons in a row.

 

Everything level of an organization must be coordinated to have a consistently good team. Ownership supporting (and hiring) the front office with a competitive budget, front office using that and the draft to stock the roster, and coaches to teach and improve the players. Instead, Buffalo gets absent ownership that pulls the rug out from under their front office, said front office desperately trying to stock a roster with late round picks, street FA's, and UDFA's while hiring a college coaching staff. Not surprisingly the results have never been good enough and the rebuilding treadmill continues unimpeded.

[Paup 1995MVP]

Across the past few GM's, one constant displays itself: using the draft to replace departed players. If maintenance was the objective, the Bills would be the experts in continuing to be mediocre. They've won at least 4 but no more than 9 games for 10 seasons in a row.

 

Everything level of an organization must be coordinated to have a consistently good team. Ownership supporting (and hiring) the front office with a competitive budget, front office using that and the draft to stock the roster, and coaches to teach and improve the players. Instead, Buffalo gets absent ownership that pulls the rug out from under their front office, said front office desperately trying to stock a roster with late round picks, street FA's, and UDFA's while hiring a college coaching staff. Not surprisingly the results have never been good enough and the rebuilding treadmill continues unimpeded.

Bills Vet, you summed up the state of this organization and the biggest reason for every Bills' fans frustrations perfectly. Our roster is mostly composed of everyone elses trash. Go thru player by player, and figure out how many guys on our roster are top 3 round draft picks. I think that would be a very interesting assignment. Anyone up for it? Talent whether it be in management, coaching or players is what wins. Teams like the Steelers, Patriots, Ravens, Packers, Saints all have it. Teams like the Bills, not so much.

[3rdand12]

we are lucky to have some veteran players to teach the new kids on our roster. These guys may not be able to execute as well as they once did or are on the down side or their physical peak. But it is well reported that the old guys have been great mentors. We can now see that these rookies are able to step in early play some " Decent, or better. " football. So I really think we have some great youth in place for the future and some decent backup for the rest of our more recent draft picks . We have done not too bad I think.

We can all see some glaring weaknesses now the season's games have shown Us fans who they truly are. We've also saw something to cheer wildly about at times of course.

The off season needs to secure a strong offensive line, not a servicable one as we have now. I agree with all on that.

The quarterback issue cannot be forced this into years draft, i also agree with most that we need the big upgrade soon (ed ( love ya Fitz your gonna be a great teacher) at qb. Then we go right to a solid balanced OLB at the top of our board. FA could really help us for next year.... Buy us a Monster pass rushingblindsidefreak. Just this once for me Buddy!

These offseason is huge for us.

By the way if you are reading , Gailey & Nix? Hope you do not feel any pressure from us !

ps we will need another cornerback for the coming year, but if you see one who is small and weak but fast, feel free to reach for him. It's what we do

Edited December 8, 2011 by 3rdand12

[BADOLBILZ]

I think Chan is soft. You are exactly correct. We got distroyed by the Jets and Patriots. Our roster lacks top end talent at every position except RB where Freddie is something special. I think Wood can be a top Center if he can ever stay healthy, and Levitre is not far behind him. After that, NOONE jumps out at you on the roster as being anything special. Teams that don't have top end talent need to be mean and ornery like a junkyard dog. Very difficult to play against. We just do not have that mentality, that we might lose, but we will definitely beat you up along the way. Look at our defense. Does anyone play like they really want to hurt someone? Noone does. Our d line is the most passive in the league. When do you ever see Dareus, Carrington, Edwards, Johnson, Heard or any of the linebackers just slam someone to the ground, get in someone's face, or just plain reek havoc on the other team? It NEVER happens. That is the coaching staffs mentality put on the players. Football is a violent game. The Bills do not play with any aggresion. Until the attitude of this team changes, we will be bottom feeders. Even though the Dolphins are 4-8, watch the attitude that they play with. It starts with the coaches and filters down to the players. Does anyone else agree?

 

It is very obvious that the defense doesn't buy into George Edwards at all. This defense isn't very good but it isn't as bad as George Edwards has made them look either.

 

The past couple of seasons it's gotten much easier to play offense in this league and that has caused the gap between the top DC's in the league and the average ones to increase. The greatest (realistic) single move that this team can make next year is getting a great DC. Somebody that the team can buy into.

[BADOLBILZ]

Across the past few GM's, one constant displays itself: using the draft to replace departed players. If maintenance was the objective, the Bills would be the experts in continuing to be mediocre. They've won at least 4 but no more than 9 games for 10 seasons in a row.

 

Everything level of an organization must be coordinated to have a consistently good team. Ownership supporting (and hiring) the front office with a competitive budget, front office using that and the draft to stock the roster, and coaches to teach and improve the players. Instead, Buffalo gets absent ownership that pulls the rug out from under their front office, said front office desperately trying to stock a roster with late round picks, street FA's, and UDFA's while hiring a college coaching staff. Not surprisingly the results have never been good enough and the rebuilding treadmill continues unimpeded.

 

I actually believe what Bill Belichick says that it is hard to be bad in the NFL. You have to make a lot of bad moves to be consistently bad and the Bills have been that way for most of the past 12 years. The record of Dick Jauron never reflected the talent the team had, they were AWFUL. They essentially never beat any teams with winning records.

 

As for the draft process, they have TRIED to replace players with those early picks. But they haven't maintained the status quo. McGahee to Lynch to Spiller has been diminishing returns. McKelvin to replace Clements? McKelvin can't even lock up a starting job on this team. Poz was never as good as Fletcher when he WAS healthy, but he got IR'd twice and that made it even worse. McCargo to fill Pat Williams shoes? Using a #8 overall pick to replace Lawyer Milloy with Donte Whitner? These steps back have denied the Bills their rightful place in the parity party.

[Billshank Redemption]

yea straight up we keep doing this crap get a permanent solution this is bull **** I'm sick of them saying we are constantly rebuilding and I'm sick of everyone giving them second chances they blew it and honestly there no better than they were when jauron left for the most part.

[Simon]

If Barkley or RG3 are there, it's time to pull that trigger on a QB with the teams first selection for the first time in 51 years. No more RB's or CB's or other reaching for small players who promise to be able to step right in and play......but who will not be worth signing to a big second contract.

 

If the stud QB prospect is not there, take a big player at a key position who will likely be with the team for 8-10 years. That could be Matt Kalil from USC. He is not going to excite fans, but he has the potential to be a top performing LT for a long, long time.

 

 

I agree if the QB is there in the top half of the first round, you grab him and don't look back. And don't think they won't do it just because they gave Fitz a nice extension. They like him well enough, but the truth of the matter is that the Bills #1 target last offseason was Tarvaris Jackson; they went after him hard when free agency finally opened, but he was not interested in coming here.

And I'm surprised at the tone of this board, seeming to be complacent with what we're carrying at Tackle. I'd also agree that a quality LT should be a viable option with their first pick.

 

One thing to watch out for though, is them going after a bigger wideout at the top of the draft. They're not happy with what they have and in both of Buddy's first two drafts they've been very close to using a first round pick on a WR. They tried to trade back into the first for Demaryius Thomas two years ago; and last year, if Denver grabs Marcel, then AJ Green would have been wearing a Bills uni. Typically I don't like spending high picks on wideouts, but the cupboard is so bare right now that I might not mind it if they grabbed a big receiver they really liked early.

 

If they go defense, go big. Look at the success of the Ravens defense. They have drafted players like Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs and Haloti Ngata in round 1 and they have been the backbone of that defense. They've successfully spent high picks on DB's like Chris McAlister and Ed Reed, but the truth is the Ravens D is always good whether they have those DB's or not. It's great when the DB's are playing well, but that's what the secondary is....icing on the cake. Big fast guys are in much lesser supply than small fast ones, and if you just build your roster around that concept you won't end up with a shell of a team like the Bills have had for the past dozen years.

 

 

This is where I'm not sure we agree. No, I absolutely do not want another high pick spent on a DB anytime soon. But I'm pretty pleased with what we're carrying on the DLine right now. If they want to complete this transition to a 3-4 (and I hope they do) then I think we're OK with Dareus, Williams, Edwards, Carrington and then either Heard or Troupe. Using another top end pick on a big DLineman could be overkill at this point. And that is coming from a guy who wants to draft DLine in the first round every year.

If they do want to run a 3-4, they have got to load up on LB's and they have to do it immediately or they won't be worth a damn; right now Barnett is the only guy on the roster that even belongs in this league. I'm not sure whether you consider that going big, because guys like Lamar Woodley and James Harrison aren't necessarily "big", but they play with great power and leverage. And that is what I think the Bills should be looking for right now. Maybe I'm picking nits here, but when we draft defense I'm looking for power more than I'm looking for actual size.

 

Outstanding post, btw.

 

It is very obvious that the defense doesn't buy into George Edwards at all. This defense isn't very good but it isn't as bad as George Edwards has made them look either.

 

The past couple of seasons it's gotten much easier to play offense in this league and that has caused the gap between the top DC's in the league and the average ones to increase. The greatest (realistic) single move that this team can make next year is getting a great DC. Somebody that the team can buy into.

 

I'd love to see us make a run at Keith Butler and see if we can't pry him loose from Pittsburgh

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Great constructive discussion in this thread.

 

Nice to get away from the criticism for criticism's sake.

[Cash]

I'm not sure whether you consider that going big, because guys like Lamar Woodley and James Harrison aren't necessarily "big", but they play with great power and leverage. And that is what I think the Bills should be looking for right now.

Lack of size is NOT the Bills problem on D anymore. If anything, they need to get smaller, especially at Spencer Johnson's position. There's a reason most teams don't line up a 300+ lb. DE/DT hybrid at OLB. The way I see it, the Bills' defensive problems stem from:

 

1.) Scheme - playing D-linemen at LB is killing our run D. And when was the last time we ran a blitz or stunt that got a free rusher? I can't remember one.

2.) Lack of talent at OLB

3.) Kyle Williams' injury

[Bill from NYC]

Great constructive discussion in this thread.

 

Nice to get away from the criticism for criticism's sake.

 

This might be the best thread in the history of this board. Not everyone (if anybody at all) is able to articulate the problems wrt the Bills as is DD.

The Bills have foresaken their foundation to draft running backs, gadget players and defensive backs. This is why we are losing. It will be impossible for them to win until they change this idiotic philosophy.

In addition to the qb position, they need to draft players who can block and sack the opposing quarterback. This should be the focus instead of plugging holes and selling tickets. And wrt qbs, I am all about a "franchise QB." Who isn't? But you (and others) please tell me...how many franchise qbs out there in this entire league?

The Jets tried to draft one and failed, but they had built up such a strong foundation that they can still win games, this while we were drafting McKelvin, Whitner, Spiller, etc.

Thanks DD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BADOLBILZ]

I agree if the QB is there in the top half of the first round, you grab him and don't look back. And don't think they won't do it just because they gave Fitz a nice extension. They like him well enough, but the truth of the matter is that the Bills #1 target last offseason was Tarvaris Jackson; they went after him hard when free agency finally opened, but he was not interested in coming here.

And I'm surprised at the tone of this board, seeming to be complacent with what we're carrying at Tackle. I'd also agree that a quality LT should be a viable option with their first pick.

 

One thing to watch out for though, is them going after a bigger wideout at the top of the draft. They're not happy with what they have and in both of Buddy's first two drafts they've been very close to using a first round pick on a WR. They tried to trade back into the first for Demaryius Thomas two years ago; and last year, if Denver grabs Marcel, then AJ Green would have been wearing a Bills uni. Typically I don't like spending high picks on wideouts, but the cupboard is so bare right now that I might not mind it if they grabbed a big receiver they really liked early.

 

 

 

This is where I'm not sure we agree. No, I absolutely do not want another high pick spent on a DB anytime soon. But I'm pretty pleased with what we're carrying on the DLine right now. If they want to complete this transition to a 3-4 (and I hope they do) then I think we're OK with Dareus, Williams, Edwards, Carrington and then either Heard or Troupe. Using another top end pick on a big DLineman could be overkill at this point. And that is coming from a guy who wants to draft DLine in the first round every year.

If they do want to run a 3-4, they have got to load up on LB's and they have to do it immediately or they won't be worth a damn; right now Barnett is the only guy on the roster that even belongs in this league. I'm not sure whether you consider that going big, because guys like Lamar Woodley and James Harrison aren't necessarily "big", but they play with great power and leverage. And that is what I think the Bills should be looking for right now. Maybe I'm picking nits here, but when we draft defense I'm looking for power more than I'm looking for actual size.

 

Outstanding post, btw.

 

 

 

I'd love to see us make a run at Keith Butler and see if we can't pry him loose from Pittsburgh

 

Thanks. Yes they need a lot of linebackers and I am talking about them with regard to big players. They need some tough, powerful, violent players. I'd like to see Butler as well. The issue is whether they could make it worthwhile for him to leave. My understanding is that he is highly paid for a LB coach and his age makes it unlikely that he will ever become a HC, so the urgency hasn't seemed to be there.......knowing that he will almost certainly succeed LeBeau as DC anyway.

[BADOLBILZ]

Lack of size is NOT the Bills problem on D anymore. If anything, they need to get smaller, especially at Spencer Johnson's position. There's a reason most teams don't line up a 300+ lb. DE/DT hybrid at OLB. The way I see it, the Bills' defensive problems stem from:

 

1.) Scheme - playing D-linemen at LB is killing our run D. And when was the last time we ran a blitz or stunt that got a free rusher? I can't remember one.

2.) Lack of talent at OLB

3.) Kyle Williams' injury

 

It's about getting athletic big players versus athletic small players. Nobody can argue that the Bills aren't big. It's just that the big players they have aren't very impactful.

 

Johnson and Kelsay at OLB do not have the athleticism to play the position. Spencer Johnson may be the most out-of-position player in Bills history. He is a marginal NFL reserve 4-3 DT......let alone a starting OLB in a 3-4.

 

Barnett has been good, but he's not a long term solution. I hope I am proven wrong but I think Shepard was a reach like Troup and Carrington. He may make it, but when you don't get value for your picks it is hard to get players who make big plays at big moments.

 

They need a lot of LB's but reaching for them in the draft won't get the team into contention with teams like the Pats/Steelers/Ravens.

[BADOLBILZ]

This might be the best thread in the history of this board. Not everyone (if anybody at all) is able to articulate the problems wrt the Bills as is DD.

The Bills have foresaken their foundation to draft running backs, gadget players and defensive backs. This is why we are losing. It will be impossible for them to win until they change this idiotic philosophy.

In addition to the qb position, they need to draft players who can block and sack the opposing quarterback. This should be the focus instead of plugging holes and selling tickets. And wrt qbs, I am all about a "franchise QB." Who isn't? But you (and others) please tell me...how many franchise qbs out there in this entire league?

The Jets tried to draft one and failed, but they had built up such a strong foundation that they can still win games, this while we were drafting McKelvin, Whitner, Spiller, etc.

Thanks DD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Thanks man. IMO, the prospects of teams searching for franchise QB's have never been better.

 

It is so much easier to play QB in the league now. The crackdown on hits to the QB and "defenseless" receivers has opened up the league to a lot of QB's who probably wouldn't make it 10 years ago. And a guy like Aaron Rodgers, who has a glass chin.........he was literally getting concussed out of the league when the NFL started to seriously crack down on the violence. If he had continued to take that abuse we would not be seeing the unreal passing performances he is producing.

 

I don't think it would be possible for Jim Everett to be Chris Everett in this league. I am not saying it is easy to play QB in the NFL now, but they have all but removed the requisite toughness from the equation. And that has made it easier for young QB's to step right in and play well. Never been a better time to be a QB in the NFL than now.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Dick Drawn

[3rdand12]

As DD mentioned we need linebackers that bring some violence to the position. What an excellent descriptor! Exactly correct imho. Would it be swell or what if we installed fear in Receivers on crossing routes or underneaths? we are might have some hitters in A. Williams, Shepp and Searcy so lets take it up a notch or 3 with or next aquisitions. Go Bills!