Future of the Bills roster

[BADOLBILZ]

IMO, the goal of this organization should be to have the most talented roster in the NFL in 3 years.

 

I bring this up because the process will run contrary to what many of you want.

 

It means drafting to build an organization that can compete for 10-12 years, not drafting to fill a few holes and hopefully create short term success.

 

I haven't been thrilled with lack of urgency of Buddy Nix but I have seen enough good things that he has done that indicates that he might see the big picture.

 

Drafting and roster building is a process. Specifically, the Bills have treated the draft like an event......a turning point.....where they have burned up high picks on flashy but limited impact prospects Willis, Roscoe, Lil' Donte, Leodis, Marshawn and Spiller.

 

Inarguably, sustained success starts at QB. Fitzpatrick is a decent QB, but not an elite one. He lacks the arm strength to command his deep throws and subsequently teams have been squatting on those short throws for two months now. He has been unable to stretch those defenses and keep them honest and the tight coverage has exposed his average receiving corps. Can he chuck the ball with velocity? Yes. But he has to hurl himself into it, and when he does that he loses control of his mechanics and subsequently is very wild on throws of 20 yards or more. Far too wild to keep a defense honest. I like him and I am comfortable with him short term, but that limitation will be hard to build long term success around.

 

If Barkley or RG3 are there, it's time to pull that trigger on a QB with the teams first selection for the first time in 51 years. No more RB's or CB's or other reaching for small players who promise to be able to step right in and play......but who will not be worth signing to a big second contract.

 

If the stud QB prospect is not there, take a big player at a key position who will likely be with the team for 8-10 years. That could be Matt Kalil from USC. He is not going to excite fans, but he has the potential to be a top performing LT for a long, long time.

 

If they go defense, go big. Look at the success of the Ravens defense. They have drafted players like Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs and Haloti Ngata in round 1 and they have been the backbone of that defense. They've successfully spent high picks on DB's like Chris McAlister and Ed Reed, but the truth is the Ravens D is always good whether they have those DB's or not. It's great when the DB's are playing well, but that's what the secondary is....icing on the cake. Big fast guys are in much lesser supply than small fast ones, and if you just build your roster around that concept you won't end up with a shell of a team like the Bills have had for the past dozen years.

 

In subsequent rounds, draft players for value while keeping in mind that notion about big/fast versus small/fast. That doesn't mean reaching up a round or two to draft Torrel Troup or Alex Carrington because you need a couple lineman but keep in mind what has happened to a team like the Eagles. They used to value their line play and big players but were criticized for their DB's and WR's. The past few offseasons they have gotten stud CB's Asomugha, Asante Samuel and drafted tiny wideouts Jackson and Macklin early and the team is in a downward spiral in great part because of their abandoning the roster building approach that kept them in sustained contention.

 

But first and foremost remember that the draft is a process. Keep working to assemble the most talented players at key positions for three years, fill some needs in free agency and I think you have a team that can compete then and is poised to compete for a long time if the team sticks to the plan. That doesn't mean sacrificing next year, use free agency to patch some holes where you can. But don't lose track of the plan.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Dick Drawn

[GeorgeEdwardsTeeth]

IMO, the goal of this organization should be to have the most talented roster in the NFL in 3 years.

 

I bring this up because the process will run contrary to what many of you want.

 

It means drafting to build an organization that can compete for 10-12 years, not drafting to fill a few holes and hopefully create short term success.

 

I haven't been thrilled with lack of urgency of Buddy Nix but I have seen enough good things that he has done that indicates that he might see the big picture.

 

Drafting and roster building is a process. Specifically, the Bills have treated the draft like an event......a turning point.....where they have burned up high picks on flashy but limited impact prospects Willis, Roscoe, Lil' Donte, Leodis, Marshawn and Spiller.

 

Inarguably, sustained success starts at QB. Fitzpatrick is a decent QB, but not an elite one. He lacks the arm strength to command his deep throws and subsequently teams have been squatting on those short throws for two months now. He has been unable to stretch those defenses and keep them honest and the tight coverage has exposed his average receiving corps. Can he chuck the ball with velocity? Yes. But he has to hurl himself into it, and when he does that he loses control of his mechanics and subsequently is very wild on throws of 20 yards or more. Far too wild to keep a defense honest. I like him and I am comfortable with him short term, but that limitation will be hard to build long term success around.

 

If Barkley or RG3 are there, it's time to pull that trigger on a QB with the teams first selection for the first time in 51 years. No more RB's or CB's or other reaching for small players who promise to be able to step right in and play......but who will not be worth signing to a big second contract.

 

If the stud QB prospect is not there, take a big player at a key position who will likely be with the team for 8-10 years. That could be Matt Kalil from USC. He is not going to excite fans, but he has the potential to be a top performing LT for a long, long time.

 

If they go defense, go big. Look at the success of the Ravens defense. They have drafted players like Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs and Haloti Ngata in round 1 and they have been the backbone of that defense. They've successfully spent high picks on DB's like Chris McAlister and Ed Reed, but the truth is the Ravens D is always good whether they have those DB's or not. It's great when the DB's are playing well, but that's what the secondary is....icing on the cake. Big fast guys are in much lesser supply that small fast ones, and if you just build your roster around that concept you won't end up with a shell of a team like the Bills have had for the past dozen years.

 

In subsequent rounds, draft players for value while keeping in mind that notion about big/fast versus small/fast. That doesn't mean reaching up a round or two to draft Torrel Troup or Alex Carrington because you need a couple lineman but keep in mind what has happened to a team like the Eagles. They used to value their line play and big players but were criticized for their DB's and WR's. The past few offseasons they have gotten a Asomugha, Asante Samuel at WR and drafted tiny wideouts Jackson and Macklin early and the team is in a downward spiral in great part because of their abandoning what the roster building approach that kept them in sustained contention.

 

But first and foremost remember that the draft is a process. Keep working to assemble the most talented players at key positions for three years, fill some needs in free agency and I think you have a team that can compete then and is poised to compete for a long time if the team sticks to the plan. That doesn't mean sacrificing next year, use free agency to patch some holes where you can. But don't lose track of the plan.

 

In 3 years?????? Come on man. Talent is a part of the problem - but I'm not sure if Chan Gailey and George Edwards are the right people to get the most out of this "talent." You thinking is very optimistic, but a tad unreasonable.

[BADOLBILZ]

In 3 years?????? Come on man. Talent is a part of the problem - but I'm not sure if Chan Gailey and George Edwards are the right people to get the most out of this "talent." You thinking is very optimistic, but a tad unreasonable.

 

I think writing about George Edwards as if he is going to be here is ridiculous. There is no way he is retained. And I don't think Chan is great by any means, but he is capable of winning with excellent talent......and if he doesn't do it, then you move on to the next guy. Except this time, the new coach doesn't inherit a roster full of scheme specific smurfs or lumbering Spencer Johnson's.

[SDS]

bump.

[Smears]

Cut Merriman, Troup, Bell, McKelvin, Donald Jones, Carrington, hell trade Stevie Johnson. They cant catch, are crippled, afraid, or too slow.

Just off the top of my head.

[Meathead]

sure. then cut fitz, spiller, wood, moats, sheppard, searcy, and byrd. cuz theyre not probowlers. just off the top of my bramaged dain

[benderbender]

bump.

Insightful

[fansince88]

In 3 years?????? Come on man. Talent is a part of the problem - but I'm not sure if Chan Gailey and George Edwards are the right people to get the most out of this "talent." You thinking is very optimistic, but a tad unreasonable.

Gailey has proven he can win with talent. They are on the IR now remember. Edwards will be gone.

[BADOLBILZ]

Gailey has proven he can win with talent. They are on the IR now remember. Edwards will be gone.

 

I don't think they were going to continue winning even if the injuries weren't happening. The defense was giving up 450+ yards every week even when they were winning. Running a 3-4, the quality of the starting LB's was not good enough to sustain the turnover pace they had going.

 

It's kind of appropriate that the Bills hire an offensive minded HC who can coach up an offense in any era....and right at that time the league starts making it easier for EVERYONE to play offense....thus partially negating his impact.

 

For decades great DC's out numbered great OC's by a wide margin. It was harder to find a decent special teams coach than a good DC. Nowadays it's a have and have-not league when it comes to defensive coaching.

[bisonbrigade]

Offensive keepers are Fitz, Jackson, Johnson, Wood, Leveitre, Hairston, and Chandler.

Defensive keepers are Kyle Williams, Dareus, Barnet, Byrd, and maybe A. Williams, Sheppard and Searcy.

 

Everybody else sucks !!

[DanInUticaTampa]

I don't think they were going to continue winning even if the injuries weren't happening. The defense was giving up 450+ yards every week even when they were winning. Running a 3-4, the quality of the starting LB's was not good enough to sustain the turnover pace they had going.

 

It's kind of appropriate that the Bills hire an offensive minded HC who can coach up an offense in any era....and right at that time the league starts making it easier for EVERYONE to play offense....thus partially negating his impact.

 

For decades great DC's out numbered great OC's by a wide margin. It was harder to find a decent special teams coach than a good DC. Nowadays it's a have and have-not league when it comes to defensive coaching.

 

 

Like you, I am not sure about winning. But that offense took a real nosedive once Wood got injured. They couldn't run the ball at all and fitz had a lot less time. the past couple weeks the oline got better, but once wood went down, that offense tanked.

 

I am not sure how many games they could have won, if any, but that injury is what killed the offense. The jackson's injury was just the final nail in the coffin.

 

IMO, they need to make the playoffs next year, otherwise gailey/nix are going to have no excuse. year 3 there should be more progress.

 

Offensive keepers are Fitz, Jackson, Johnson, Wood, Leveitre, Hairston, and Chandler.

Defensive keepers are Kyle Williams, Dareus, Barnet, Byrd, and maybe A. Williams, Sheppard and Searcy.

 

Everybody else sucks !!

 

 

Gotta add nelson in there. guy is usually pretty good. also mcintyre.

[BADOLBILZ]

Insightful

 

Thank you. It basically comes down to realizing that when you draft to patch holes you never get ahead. The Bills have cornered the market on drafting players in round one that should be able to step right in and play at a high level........but don't. Why draft a QB who might have to sit on the bench for a season? Why draft a LT who could struggle as a rookie? Running backs and DB's are needs......and they can make an immediate impact......even if it's just returning kicks.......right?

 

I have a good friend who is an Eagles fan living near Philly and he has basically been enjoying an era of winning that is very similar to the run the Bills had from late 80's thru 1999. The Eagles are following the Bills plan for failure. Get small, get your QB killed and get your coach fired so you can switch offenses and defenses and basically eliminate the culture of winning that you built over the course of a decade.

[3rdand12]

Offensive keepers are Fitz, Jackson, Johnson, Wood, Leveitre, Hairston, and Chandler.

Defensive keepers are Kyle Williams, Dareus, Barnet, Byrd, and maybe A. Williams, Sheppard and Searcy.

 

Everybody else sucks !!

That does not leave us with enough players to even practice with!

I must insist on keeping George Wilson though.

[BADOLBILZ]

Like you, I am not sure about winning. But that offense took a real nosedive once Wood got injured. They couldn't run the ball at all and fitz had a lot less time. the past couple weeks the oline got better, but once wood went down, that offense tanked.

 

I am not sure how many games they could have won, if any, but that injury is what killed the offense. The jackson's injury was just the final nail in the coffin.

 

IMO, they need to make the playoffs next year, otherwise gailey/nix are going to have no excuse. year 3 there should be more progress.

 

Yes if they don't make legitimate progress next year then Chan can't get it done. You can be good with the X's and O's but that's just part of it. The Bills of the mid-2000's were not bereft of talent, but they were not mentally tough. When things went bad, they got worse. The past two seasons that has been the case with Chan. People tend to forget that the last few games of last year were horrendous showings by the Bills.

[n3wyork13]

been waiting for the 3-5 year talent turn around for the las 3 gms/coaches havent we?

[RevWarRifleman]

sure. then cut fitz, spiller, wood, moats, sheppard, searcy, and byrd. cuz theyre not probowlers. just off the top of my bramaged dain

 

+1

[BADOLBILZ]

been waiting for the 3-5 year talent turn around for the las 3 gms/coaches havent we?

 

Yeah, and just look at the positions they used their first picks on.

 

RB's(3), DB's(3) and small WR's(2).

 

Not exactly foundation quality work on draft day. It's been 51 years since the Bills have selected a QB with their first pick in any draft. That is uttlerly ridiculous. By contrast they have drafted more than a dozen RB's with that first selection.

 

Let me be clear because it appears some people aren't actually reading the post thru......I am not saying that losing should be tolerated for three more years. I am saying the goal of the personnel dept should be to build the best roster possible not to try to add players who play positions like RB and CB that promise to be able to contribute earlier than other positons.

 

It's a bad idea that often does not work out and provides diminishing returns in a few years. If you have a great overall roster, then fine, ice that cake. But Don't tell me you need a CB when you have average to below average starters on your lines, at QB, etc...

[thewildrabbit]

Inarguably, sustained success starts at QB. Fitzpatrick is a decent QB, but not an elite one. He lacks the arm strength to command his deep throws and subsequently teams have been squatting on those short throws for two months now. He has been unable to stretch those defenses and keep them honest and the tight coverage has exposed his average receiving corps. Can he chuck the ball with velocity? Yes. But he has to hurl himself into it, and when he does that he loses control of his mechanics and subsequently is very wild on throws of 20 yards or more. Far too wild to keep a defense honest. I like him and I am comfortable with him short term, but that limitation will be hard to build long term success around.

Teams have been squatting on those short throws because that's all Chan Gailey has in his game plan. He setup a makeshift O line for the specific purpose to primarily utilize the short quick passes that Fitz excels at, with the understanding that he didn't need a great O line if the QB can get the ball out in 3 seconds or under and before any pass rush can get to his QB.

 

The problem is like DD pointed out is that teams are playing up on the line and bumping the WR's out of their routes to disrupt the timing and this causes Fitz to hold the ball longer then he should. Which also causes Fitz to start hurrying his passes and can't get into a rhythm. What also doesn't help is that the O line was patchwork to begin with, partially made up from a few guys off the waiver wire. Not to mention the fact that the best player on that line and starting center is on IR, the starting LT has been out for months and a rookie 4th is now the starting LT. Starting WR's on IR, the starting RB on IR

 

This current O line wasn't build with the intention of calling 5-7 deep drop passes, simply because the O linemen lack the talent to protect for a 5-7 step drop on a consistent basis.

 

 

If you look at the 49ers and their stout running game, along with a top defense... they have shown you don't need an elite QB to win and make the playoffs. Same thing with Denver, Tebow is about as far away from Brees-Manning-Brady- Big Ben as you can get, yet he is winning!

 

This regime blew it by not building that O line the first year, I highly doubt the Bills will ever make the playoffs with Nix & Gailey

[BADOLBILZ]

Teams have been squatting on those short throws because that's all Chan Gailey has in his game plan. He setup a makeshift O line for the specific purpose to primarily utilize the short quick passes that Fitz excels at, with the understanding that he didn't need a great O line if the QB can get the ball out in 3 seconds or under and before any pass rush can get to his QB.

 

The problem is like DD pointed out is that teams are playing up on the line and bumping the WR's out of their routes to disrupt the timing and this causes Fitz to hold the ball longer then he should. Which also causes Fitz to start hurrying his passes and can't get into a rhythm. What also doesn't help is that the O line was patchwork to begin with, partially made up from a few guys off the waiver wire. Not to mention the fact that the best player on that line and starting center is on IR, the starting LT has been out for months and a rookie 4th is now the starting LT. Starting WR's on IR, the starting RB on IR

 

This current O line wasn't build with the intention of calling 5-7 deep drop passes, simply because the O linemen lack the talent to protect for a 5-7 step drop on a consistent basis.

 

 

If you look at the 49ers and their stout running game, along with a top defense... they have shown you don't need an elite QB to win and make the playoffs. Same thing with Denver, Tebow is about as far away from Brees-Manning-Brady- Big Ben as you can get, yet he is winning!

 

This regime blew it by not building that O line the first year, I highly doubt the Bills will ever make the playoffs with Nix & Gailey

 

Yeah, their draft selections have not proven very good to this point and I would argue it was because they were reaching for need. They reached for Troup and Carrington in a draft that was not very deep at those positions. The following year the draft was deep at DL and they instead reached for a CB at the top of round 2........in a draft that was weak at CB. In some recent DB-rich drafts, Williams might have been a 4th or even 5th round pick. He was a nickel back at Texas for chrissake. He has early round talent but not super talent and he was enigmatic. Guys like that fall in DB rich drafts.

 

That's the kind of stuff that keeps your roster weak, but it's the type of thing that coaches and GM's who are under pressure to win in a short time frame do. It's bad business and needs to stop, even if that means fans (and "Running Back" Ralph Wilson) aren't thrilled with a first round big guy or a QB who might not beat Fitzpatrick out as a rookie.

 

As for Fitz, no matter how you look at it, he is never going to be able to stretch the field. He might hit a deep ball every once in a while, but it's those 20-30 yard passes that the better QB's can routinely convert that are a challenge for Fitz. A better OL will help, but a better OL will help a better QB too. I like Fitz but it's like asking a guy with fifteen foot range to shoot 3's. He can get it to the rim, but that's not the objective.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

How many times have we all heard the line "In three years" or "In five years"?

 

I am so sick of that BS as well as that stupid word "rebuilding"

 

We havent gotten better in over 10 years so obviously we need a new architect because our "rebuilding" sucks.

 

We need to think about now and not plan ahead 3-5 years.