SageAgainstTheMachine Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/06/sports/hockey/derek-boogaard-a-brain-going-bad.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all?src=tp Fascinating stuff. I think I'm reaching a point where I can't morally justify watching football or hockey. Not a judgment on anybody else...just on a personal level, whenever I see a big hit I think... 1) WOW! and then 2) I wonder how many years that knocked off his life? It disturbs the heck out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 And now, the fourth hockey player, of four examined, was found to have had it, too. I agree with your concerns (after watching the Joe Frazier thing on HBO a few weeks ago, you can see his speech was slurred, etc. and that it wasn't just Ali that got his brain scrambled in their fights). But, my one concern with this place that is doing all these studies is that I haven't heard of one yet that doesn't have this CTE. I mean Rick Martin had it, too. Now, they're saying again that soccer players are getting it from heading the ball. It seems that anybody who has ever hit their head supposedly has this CTE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 This all likely starts from when people first start playing sports. There are violent collisions, age/size-wise, throughout ones sport-playing life. So do you ban all sports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) This all likely starts from when people first start playing sports. There are violent collisions, age/size-wise, throughout ones sport-playing life. So do you ban all sports? That's a valid point. I'll say this - when I have kids, I'll probably try to gear them toward lower risk sports like baseball. Of course, kids can hit their noggins in a variety of situations but with contact sports you're just asking for it. To bbb's point, I'm no C.T.E expert but I'd bet my bottom dollar that the average soccer player's life is a solid 15 years longer than the average football player's. EDIT: And I hope it goes without saying that I'd never advocate to BAN any sports. People make their own decisions, after all. But I'm debating whether or not to offer my tacit support as a fan. Edited December 6, 2011 by SageAgainstTheMachine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 That's a valid point. I'll say this - when I have kids, I'll probably try to gear them toward lower risk sports like baseball. Of course, kids can hit their noggins in a variety of situations but with contact sports you're just asking for it. To bbb's point, I'm no C.T.E expert but I'd bet my bottom dollar that the average soccer player's life is a solid 15 years longer than the average football player's. No doubt. My concern is their screening process. Everybody seems to have it. From boxers down to wimpy soccer players! J/K you soccer lovers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 No doubt. My concern is their screening process. Everybody seems to have it. From boxers down to wimpy soccer players! J/K you soccer lovers! Considering most peoples' brains don't exhibit the signs of CTE, you can pretty much contribute it to contact sports since that would be the common denominator. Unless something else is found, like it's due to steroids and all these guys with it were taking them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Considering most peoples' brains don't exhibit the signs of CTE, you can pretty much contribute it to contact sports since that would be the common denominator. Unless something else is found, like it's due to steroids and all these guys with it were taking them. Is this place that all these athlete's brains are going to using a control group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Is this place that all these athlete's brains are going to using a control group? There are plenty of examples of normal human brains from all ages of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 There are plenty of examples of normal human brains from all ages of life. I'm sure there are, but it seems to me that this place needs to have a control group. I would think they would have some bias to find this thing, and so far that's all I've heard. No negative results yet that I know of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 Hopefully the big leagues don't act like the tobacco industry and deny, deny, deny until the science is 100% incontrovertible. The best thing for the NFL and NHL to do is to operate under the assumption of a fatally injurious link between game action and head injuries. Then, adapt. Fans will hate it, but that's where the moral responsibility lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Hopefully the big leagues don't act like the tobacco industry and deny, deny, deny until the science is 100% incontrovertible. The best thing for the NFL and NHL to do is to operate under the assumption of a fatally injurious link between game action and head injuries. Then, adapt. Fans will hate it, but that's where the moral responsibility lies. Although I'm questioning a little bit this place this does these studies, in the big picture I'm agreeing with you. And, you know the thing that gets me - is that you see these big hits cause concussions and guys are out cold on the field, etc.......And, then guys like Ray Lewis and James Harrison and many others say the game is getting ruined by the fines, etc. being levied on hits to the head. "When I came in the league...." and other BS. WTF is my response - the game isn't violent enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted December 6, 2011 Author Share Posted December 6, 2011 Although I'm questioning a little bit this place this does these studies, in the big picture I'm agreeing with you. And, you know the thing that gets me - is that you see these big hits cause concussions and guys are out cold on the field, etc.......And, then guys like Ray Lewis and James Harrison and many others say the game is getting ruined by the fines, etc. being levied on hits to the head. "When I came in the league...." and other BS. WTF is my response - the game isn't violent enough? It's a head scratcher. This issue has had a hard enough time being taken seriously...doesn't help that some of the players don't want their own interests protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 It's a head scratcher. This issue has had a hard enough time being taken seriously...doesn't help that some of the players don't want their own interests protected. And, right on cue, Harrison come through with this hit, which it looks like the NFL will suspend him for and I'm sure that he'll say cry about not letting them play the game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDvi5vGsY90 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 And, right on cue, Harrison come through with this hit, which it looks like the NFL will suspend him for and I'm sure that he'll say cry about not letting them play the game: youtube.com/watch?v=YDvi5vGsY90 Should definitely be a suspension. It's not like McCoy was going down or that Harrison ever had a chance to get a shoulder into him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Hopefully the big leagues don't act like the tobacco industry and deny, deny, deny until the science is 100% incontrovertible. The best thing for the NFL and NHL to do is to operate under the assumption of a fatally injurious link between game action and head injuries. Then, adapt. Fans will hate it, but that's where the moral responsibility lies. Very true statements. There are simple actions that can be taken now with #1 on the list being banning fighting in the NHL. I know it is tradition in the sport and may be what draws some fans but in the face of the available evidence how can they allow it to continue? Also you fall short in calling out only the NFL and NHL - all sports programs need to take a serious look at the issue - boxing for sure. After all that sport exists only if there are shots to the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Very true statements. There are simple actions that can be taken now with #1 on the list being banning fighting in the NHL. I know it is tradition in the sport and may be what draws some fans but in the face of the available evidence how can they allow it to continue? Also you fall short in calling out only the NFL and NHL - all sports programs need to take a serious look at the issue - boxing for sure. After all that sport exists only if there are shots to the head. Why doesn't the NFL require all players to wear 'better helmets'? Why doesn't the NFL lead the way and spend whatever it takes to put the best possible helmet on the noggin of every player in the NFL? How much $$$ does the NFL give to R&D of various companies who are trying to put a better product out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 The NHL. is not convinced that there is a link between hockey and C.T.E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 The NHL. is not convinced that there is a link between hockey and C.T.E. I can understand their stance if it is driven by a desire to allow for more research as the link is not absolutely proven. However, their bias should be towards player safety and elimination of factors that do not truly add to the game but clearly contribute to concussions (or significant head blows). Fighting being the prime example of low hanging fruit. What is most interesting in all of this is that all of sport is likely to be significantly changed by what appears to be growing evidence that head blows and concussions are not to be taken lightly. I'm not suggesting that ultimately the NFL will turn ito flag football but there will be pressure to somehow reduce the hits in a game that is built on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I can understand their stance if it is driven by a desire to allow for more research as the link is not absolutely proven. . Their "desire" is more likely to avoid the inevitable lawsuits and keep the cash flowing as long as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) I can understand their stance if it is driven by a desire to allow for more research as the link is not absolutely proven. However, their bias should be towards player safety and elimination of factors that do not truly add to the game but clearly contribute to concussions (or significant head blows). Fighting being the prime example of low hanging fruit. What is most interesting in all of this is that all of sport is likely to be significantly changed by what appears to be growing evidence that head blows and concussions are not to be taken lightly. I'm not suggesting that ultimately the NFL will turn ito flag football but there will be pressure to somehow reduce the hits in a game that is built on them. One issue is that the average fan seems to have a major problem with the game becoming less violent. The NFL's best interest obviously involves a reduction in injuries, but they (understandably) fear a harsh reaction from fans for any rule changes. While I understand the innate desire to resist change, the game has been evolving since its inception. Back in the day, I'm sure some people thought the forward pass would ruin the game. My first change? Do away with the 3-point stance. This would work wonders with the sub-concussive impact problem. Edited December 12, 2011 by SageAgainstTheMachine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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