Luxury Pick, Bust, Average at best

[aristocrat]

CJ would have gone in the first round guaranteed, and probably would have started on the team that picked him, making his career further along than it is now, and everyone around here would have pissed and moaned on how we passed on the guy. He was the highest rated player on the board at #9, so you pick him since you had one running back with a career 3.7 YPC average who wants out, and the other at age 29 who hasn't been a starter in the league at that point.

 

So yes, your facts actually prove the RB position was a position of need, so it's completely senseless to pass on the highest rated RB in the draft at the time. This thread is not about any other RB picked by other GMs in the past, so lets leave that dead horse alone. As far as finding top tier RBs deeper in the draft, yes, it's possible.

 

I'd love to have a rebuttal that doesn't point to a useless Marshawn lynch, or an unproven Freddie(at the time), neither player was a game changer, or elite talent, so enough with that argument already, it's lame, weak, and just proves why you would take the highest rated RB in the draft at the time.

 

Again, I'd like to point out that I posted this after Spiller finally got a couple games under his belt, and I also will go so far as to say he will be a better back than the likes of Reggie Bush. I have no doubt this kid won't have any trouble starting where Reggie struggled. In one full game he already has more highlight runs than the guy we sent to seattle. I still can't for the life of me understand how people simply want to ignore the fact that a team with 0 pro bowlers at the RB position can see it as a luxury pick... just blindingly hard to understand.

 

lynch had two 1000 yard seasons to start his career before 2009(the year before spiller) when freddy took over the starter position and ran for 1100. So we had two backs that could go over 1000 yards on the roster with one of them running himself outta town cause of his bs. Pouncey was on the board who is an all pro center and we could have had him to make our interior o line legit. Oh and see the titans and how well they have done with a pro bowl rb.

[Homey D. Clown]

lynch had two 1000 yard seasons to start his career before 2009(the year before spiller) when freddy took over the starter position and ran for 1100. So we had two backs that could go over 1000 yards on the roster with one of them running himself outta town cause of his bs. Pouncey was on the board who is an all pro center and we could have had him to make our interior o line legit. Oh and see the titans and how well they have done with a pro bowl rb.

 

 

So your point is that we weren't very deep at RB, since neither were considered elite talent at the time of the draft... glad you see it my way.

[Homey D. Clown]

I will try, although you will probably dislike, or perhaps even get angry at my reponse.

If you live in a beat up bungalo that needs a roof, bathroom, kitchen, and has a basement that leaks, would you put Anderson windows on it? Andersons are "good" windows, but the house itself won't be any good until the major needs are addressed.

Now, CJ, while he might be good some day, would appear to be a luxury that the Bills couldn't afford. After 28 games, are we really sure that he is an every down back? To add insult to (imo) injury, they RAN to the podium to make this selection. They didn't wait for last minute trade offers, which do happen. Then, Mr. Wilson was loving the pick, stating that the team needed "more excitement." This while we had no pass rush, no OTs, weak lbs, and was Trent still the qb?

So, as you requested, I left out Lynch and Jackson. And if you like the pick to this day, what's the problem? We can't agree on everything.

 

One question if I may: Trent Richardson may or may not be picked in the top 10. Who would you prefer, Richardson or Spiller?

 

 

I simply disagree any team not having any depth or game changers on their team at a position can even have any pick be classified as a luxury, and I also can't understand how any player can be deemed a bust without getting the chance to play. I'm not arguing your strategy isn't more sound than what the GM decided that day, I can't control that, but the point of this thread was that I did agree with the pick, still do, even though other players have had more opportunities to play, hindsight is 20/20, and i didn't want to go there, I want to stay on task that it's not always doom and gloom when we pick in the 1st round, but Buffalo fans love to poke holes in paper houses when it comes to draft picks. It seems like the satisfaction they get from saying "I told you so", or "look how bad our GM is" is all that keeps them around. It's obvious the problem is much deeper than one draft pick, but CJ has been an easy target since the Maybin pick gets worse by the minute, damned if you do(picking him), damned if you don't(cutting him).

 

It gets old reading the constant bashing and brow beating these guys take, and I am starting to wonder if players, coaches, and even front office staff actually lose their jobs over what is said in the public open media, we have a meddling owner who just might have the sense, or lack there of, to act on such nonsense.

 

And now with Freddie injured, how on earth can anyone sit around and think the top RB in the draft is a luxury? What frickin luxury? Nobody really though Lynch was getting any better in 2009, nobody, INCLUDING the rest of the NFL. Who else has the potential to break runs on this team, or possibly score on offense? I stand my ground that they saw that potential in Spiller, I saw flashes of it Sunday, there's no doubt he will be good, so the arguments against him get thinner by the moment. The depth at that position simply was not, and still is not there past Freddie. It seems they have had a plan on offensive line, and it actually seems to be working, and defensively it looks like a DE or DT again since other picks have not panned out.

Edited December 6, 2011 by McKinleys Curse

[Bill from NYC]

I simply disagree any team not having any depth or game changers on their team at a position can even have any pick be classified as a luxury, and I also can't understand how any player can be deemed a bust without getting the chance to play. I'm not arguing your strategy isn't more sound than what the GM decided that day, I can't control that, but the point of this thread was that I did agree with the pick, still do, even though other players have had more opportunities to play, hindsight is 20/20, and i didn't want to go there, I want to stay on task that it's not always doom and gloom when we pick in the 1st round, but Buffalo fans love to poke holes in paper houses when it comes to draft picks.

 

OK, and I appreciate the dialogue. However, the above is where our fundamental disagreement lies. The Bills have a history of strange and horrible first round picks, dating WAY back. But for the purpose of this conversation, let me only cite a few.

In 2006, the first 5 picks were devoted to Whitner, McCargo, Youboty and Ko Simpson. That's right, they traded away a very early 3rd to draft this complete mess. In 2003, they took Magahee in the first, and waited at least 20 games for him to even take the field. I could easily go on, but I won't.

They made these (and other) asinine selections while having NO foundation. QB problems, no blocking, and no pass rush. There is a reason why we are a losing team. This is it, and many Bills fans are really fed up with this kind of neglect, and even idiocy.

John C. is a great poster imo. He blames all of this mess on Mr. Wilson, and I can see his point. But in the interest of being fair, it must be hard for a financial success like Ralph to believe how stupid the people he hired have been. And for what it's worth, I do not consider Gailey to be stupid at all. But in essence, Ralph makes his cash even though the people he hires make idiotic decisions year after year. It ain't his problem.

We will see what happens wrt Spiller. You have more faith in him than I do and it goes without saying that this is beyond OK. But, imo a selection such as this is symptomatic as to why we suck. And if Ralph was involved in this pick (which I will always think that he was, despite being blasted for saying so), then John C. would be correct.

All of this is simply my opinion, and thanks once again for the fun dialogue.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Bill from NYC

[JohnC]

I will try, although you will probably dislike, or perhaps even get angry at my reponse.

If you live in a beat up bungalo that needs a roof, bathroom, kitchen, and has a basement that leaks, would you put Anderson windows on it? Andersons are "good" windows, but the house itself won't be any good until the major needs are addressed.

Now, CJ, while he might be good some day, would appear to be a luxury that the Bills couldn't afford. After 28 games, are we really sure that he is an every down back? To add insult to (imo) injury, they RAN to the podium to make this selection. They didn't wait for last minute trade offers, which do happen. Then, Mr. Wilson was loving the pick, stating that the team needed "more excitement." This while we had no pass rush, no OTs, weak lbs, and was Trent still the qb?

So, as you requested, I left out Lynch and Jackson. And if you like the pick to this day, what's the problem? We can't agree on everything.

 

One question if I may: Trent Richardson may or may not be picked in the top 10. Who would you prefer, Richardson or Spiller?

 

It isn't fair to compare a "potential" future pick with a prior pick made at a different time and different situation. I'll be more than satisfied with a backfield composed of Jackson and Spiller and then using an upcoming pick on a stud LB or OT. You have on many occasions made a sound case that it is absurd and self-defeating to constantly redraft the same positions we have already drafted at, especially the running back position. It's almost at the point that this franchise has a neurosis about drafting backs, releasing/trading and then redrafting. It's not surprising that Lynch and McGahee are still producing.

 

The Bills had a good LT in Peters. He was our best lineman and was one of our lowest paid lineman. He was shipped out for financial reasons. Wouldn't our OL be more credible with Peters at LT and Hairston at RT, probably his more natural position? If you add Bell as a swing tackle then you also add some depth on the line. The point I'm addressing here is that the owner through his finance people, Littman and Oberdorf, have established a business model in which good players entering their contract years are often moved due to money reasons not having anything to do with football considerations. Is there any doubt that London Fletcher, one of the most productive defensive players in the league, was released because of financial considerations?

 

My central point is that the flaw in our franchise has little to do with any particular player. It has everything to do with the way the owner has structured the organization. He has established a business model that makes him a ton of money but relegates this team to being stuck in the muck of eternal mediocrity. The owner is 93 yrs old and is fading from the scene. Yet through his financial confederates this team is still being managed in the same self-defeating way.

[Homey D. Clown]

It isn't fair to compare a "potential" future pick with a prior pick made at a different time and different situation. I'll be more than satisfied with a backfield composed of Jackson and Spiller and then using an upcoming pick on a stud LB or OT. You have on many occasions made a sound case that it is absurd and self-defeating to constantly redraft the same positions we have already drafted at, especially the running back position. It's almost at the point that this franchise has a neurosis about drafting backs, releasing/trading and then redrafting. It's not surprising that Lynch and McGahee are still producing.

 

The Bills had a good LT in Peters. He was our best lineman and was one of our lowest paid lineman. He was shipped out for financial reasons. Wouldn't our OL be more credible with Peters at LT and Hairston at RT, probably his more natural position? If you add Bell as a swing tackle then you also add some depth on the line. The point I'm addressing here is that the owner through his finance people, Littman and Oberdorf, have established a business model in which good players entering their contract years are often moved due to money reasons not having anything to do with football considerations. Is there any doubt that London Fletcher, one of the most productive defensive players in the league, was released because of financial considerations?

 

My central point is that the flaw in our franchise has little to do with any particular player. It has everything to do with the way the owner has structured the organization. He has established a business model that makes him a ton of money but relegates this team to being stuck in the muck of eternal mediocrity. The owner is 93 yrs old and is fading from the scene. Yet through his financial confederates this team is still being managed in the same self-defeating way.

 

I couldn't have said it any better myself with regards to Ralph Wilson, he has always run the team strictly from a profit point of view, and has always put very little, if any focus on winning championships. The only man hard headed enough to punch a hole in Ralph's wallet for almost a decade got fired, which had very little to do with losing superbowls.