Luxury Pick, Bust, Average at best

[papazoid]

Spiller is NOT a "bust". He can play in this league. would i have picked him 9th overall...NO !!....but that was a weak draft and that low life marshawn lynch forced their hand.

 

maybin and mccargo are "busts".....and Troup will be joining them soon.

 

McKelvin and Whitner will play in this league for a long time, just at a mediocre level, but they are not busts.

 

getting back to spiller, he should have had two very nice "long" TD runs. one was called back for a cheap holding penalty. but the game breaking skill is there. his biggest problem is that Fred Jackson is deservedly in front of him on the depth chart. his second biggest problem is that this O-line rarely opens up a hole for him to run through.

[Homey D. Clown]

We already had two stud running back on our team in Lynch and Freddy. We took a third one at 9 overall despite critical position needs elsewhere.

 

That's exactly the definition of a luxury pick.

 

I don't care if he runs for 200 yards a game, we still can't stop anybody on defense and we should've used his pick for someone like Pierre-Paul or even a stud center like Pouncey. Those guys were sitting there and we take another RB.

 

If CJ could only rush the passer.....

 

 

You are exactly the type of TSW poster I am referencing, and I even made the comment that at a 3.7 YPC average, Marshawn Lynch was HARDLY a stud running back, and Freddie was not proven to be what we saw this year at the time of the draft. CJ would have been a luxury pick if the Bills had Adrian Peterson and Matt Forte, but we didn't, we had 2 running backs that could barely cross 1000 yards, so in no way were the Bills deep at RB in any way. The team needs players everywhere, absolutely no pick could be considered a luxury when you're perennially 6-10 or 7-9. Sorry, you really didn't make any ground in the weak argument that the Bills didn't need him.

[Dopey]

So...in your opinion, Spiller's talents merit a 9th overall pick? On his best day, he's a Reggie Bush clone and most agree, he was a bust...what makes Spiller any better? He went a little later in the first round? Guys of his ilk/talent are more 2nd-4th rounders, not top 10 picks. In the right circumstances, the guy is a third down back and need-a-break fill in....

So, cuz most of you "experts" agree he's a bust makes him one? I'm an expert too, and I think he's worth the pick. Nobody knew Fred would blow up like he did and most of us "experts" wanted Lynch and his antics gone. Hindsight makes you an expert,huh?!

[CodeMonkey]

Spiller was absolutely, 100% a luxury pick. He had his best game running so far in my opinion, against a team not a lot better than the Bills D. And even then he managed to fumble and get the ball back for a TD only on a questionable overturn, and drop a couple important passes late. I didn't notice his pass blocking, but I don't remember them keeping him in to block either.

 

He definitely deserves the rest of the season to show what he's got. But even in his best game so far he didn't set the world on fire yesterday.

 

I don't think a situational back (which he will end up being at best in my opinion) is deserving of a #9 overall. But that's on Chanix, not Spiller.

[Homey D. Clown]

After the first decent game of his career, this thread was inevitable. The OP has obviously been waiting for this day.

 

Saying Spiller is the most talented guy on the offense is clearly an opinion (obvious bias to support the OP's crusade) not backed up by anything this kid has done on the field to date.

 

Others have pointed out the luxury nature of this pick.

 

 

You got me, you're so smart. I've been just sitting by my computer with the shades drawn, chain smoking cigarettes, sifting through every post on TSW just WAITING to post this. It's funny though how it took only his 2nd game as a starter to look pretty solid as a starter, whew!!! I really had to wait long for that. This post is funny.

 

the team has 0 play makers on offense aside from Freddie on a regular basis, and at the time the Bills picked him, there were no running backs on the team doing it game in and game out. when you're 6-10 every year, there isn't a pick on the board you can make that could be considered a luxury pick, but hey, it's been said around here, so it HAS to be carved into LAW. I find it hilarious how an idiotic notion that a 6-10 team could even have a luxury pick on the board. Did the team have needs elsewhere, absolutely, but this team has holes to fill everywhere, and in no way can you prioritize when you simply don't have any play makers. They didn't at the time, I don't care how many times people try to rationalize it with the roster at the time. Was Freddie a game changer at the time NO. Was Marshawn 3.7 YPC Lynch a game changer? NO. Spiller was billed as exactly that, and since Lee Evan was a ghost at that time as well, how does anyone even try to rationalize the pick as a luxury? Seriously, try to rationalize it with stats, because you can't, period. All people have around here is simple-minded sarcasm, and that is it. After the 2009 season, who went to the pro bowl on offense? NOBODY. oops, I just made a valid point, yikes!! Good thing we had 2 pro bowl 1000+ yard running backs on offense, and both happy to be in Buffalo.... oops, we didn't have that either. Yep, Spiller was a luxury pick. This is probably the dumbest thing every said on here i have read in 10 years, and there is a lot to pick from.

 

What it really boils down to around here is that no matter what happens in games, on draft day, in practice, whatever, people just aren't happy being Bills fans unless they have something to question, 2nd guess or criticize. Have fun with your luxury pick band-wagoners.

Edited December 5, 2011 by McKinleys Curse

[Dopey]

You are exactly the type of TSW poster I am referencing, and I even made the comment that at a 3.7 YPC average, Marshawn Lynch was HARDLY a stud running back, and Freddie was not proven to be what we saw this year at the time of the draft. CJ would have been a luxury pick if the Bills had Adrian Peterson and Matt Forte, but we didn't, we had 2 running backs that could barely cross 1000 yards, so in no way were the Bills deep at RB in any way. The team needs players everywhere, absolutely no pick could be considered a luxury when you're perennially 6-10 or 7-9. Sorry, you really didn't make any ground in the weak argument that the Bills didn't need him.

I'm with you, but you're wasting your time. These "experts" know better. We needed talent everywhere on this team and Lynch was as good as gone.

[CodeMonkey]

I find it hilarious how an idiotic notion that a 6-10 team could even have a luxury pick on the board. Did the team have needs elsewhere, absolutely, but this team has holes to fill everywhere, and in no way can you prioritize when you simply don't have any play makers.

As you stated, there were many many holes to fill. At the time, the Bills had FredEX and Lynch. Both serviceable backs at least. The definition of a luxury pick, at least in my mind, is picking a player at a position where you have serviceable players already when many other positions on the team do not. This is clearly the case in my mind, and is why I called Spiller a luxury pick then, and now.

Edited December 5, 2011 by CodeMonkey

[Dorkington]

Not a bust.

 

Not worth a #9 pick.

 

Is there no grey area between the extremes of opinions?

[billsfreak]

To all the boneheads who think a guy who hadn't carried the ball more than 10 times a game was a bust, or not tough enough to play every down, or couldn't hit a hole, blah, blah, blah...

 

Why aren't you posting all that garbage now? It's still early in his career, and he's clearly shown he's got some real talent, so how about questioning the pick now?

 

Spiller is clearly the most talented guy on offense right now with Freddie out, and people around here STILL can't admit it was way off base to say we didn't need him. I'll even admit it's still a bit early to seek out all the Spiller bashers on this board, but you have to be short a few beans in your burrito to think the guy was a wasted pick.

 

The luxury pick comment still kills me, like this team was EVER deep enough to even warrant that notion, and don't try to rationalize it with the actual fact that marshawn(Least Mode, I want out of buffalo, I have stepped sideways more than I have forwards in my career) Lynch on the team at the time, we all know the guy wasn't going to be around long, and even if he was, he really wasn't that good anyway.

 

How about giving a guy the chance to play a few games before crucifying him around here, if you look back at even my posts, I wanted the team to give Aaron Maybin the chance to at least play a full game(I'm still not sayig what he is doing in NJ is all that amazing), I am just Sayin' to coin a phrase.

Dude, take a deep breath. One decent quarter of football doesn't all at once make him worthy of #9 pick overall. Almost two full seasons as a top ten pick, still no 100 yard games. He has talent, but as a full time #1, doubt it. One decent quarter or half doesn't wipe out 25 or so games of cluelessness. Nobody with common sense can argue that picking him wasn't a luxury pick, if you do you just sound dumb.

[KD in CA]

Not a bust.

 

Not worth a #9 pick.

 

Is there no grey area between the extremes of opinions?

 

 

You stop that crazy talk right now. This here is the internet.

[CSBill]

We already had two stud running back on our team in Lynch and Freddy. We took a third one at 9 overall despite critical position needs elsewhere.

 

That's exactly the definition of a luxury pick.

 

I don't care if he runs for 200 yards a game, we still can't stop anybody on defense and we should've used his pick for someone like Pierre-Paul or even a stud center like Pouncey. Those guys were sitting there and we take another RB.

 

If CJ could only rush the passer.....

 

ditto

 

As you stated, there were many many holes to fill. At the time, the Bills had FredEX and Lynch. Both serviceable backs at least. The definition of a luxury pick, at least in my mind, is picking a player at a position where you have serviceable players already when many other positions on the team do not. This is clearly the case in my mind, and is why I called Spiller a luxury pick then, and now.

 

except we're trying to experience the "luxury" part of it

Edited December 7, 2011 by CSBill

[PDaDdy]

To all the boneheads who think a guy who hadn't carried the ball more than 10 times a game was a bust, or not tough enough to play every down, or couldn't hit a hole, blah, blah, blah...

 

Why aren't you posting all that garbage now? It's still early in his career, and he's clearly shown he's got some real talent, so how about questioning the pick now?

 

Spiller is clearly the most talented guy on offense right now with Freddie out, and people around here STILL can't admit it was way off base to say we didn't need him. I'll even admit it's still a bit early to seek out all the Spiller bashers on this board, but you have to be short a few beans in your burrito to think the guy was a wasted pick.

 

The luxury pick comment still kills me, like this team was EVER deep enough to even warrant that notion, and don't try to rationalize it with the actual fact that marshawn(Least Mode, I want out of buffalo, I have stepped sideways more than I have forwards in my career) Lynch on the team at the time, we all know the guy wasn't going to be around long, and even if he was, he really wasn't that good anyway.

 

How about giving a guy the chance to play a few games before crucifying him around here, if you look back at even my posts, I wanted the team to give Aaron Maybin the chance to at least play a full game(I'm still not sayig what he is doing in NJ is all that amazing), I am just Sayin' to coin a phrase.

 

I have been waiting for this for almost 2 years. FINALLY only due to injury does Spiller get significant playing time and the kid is coming along JUST fine. He was averaging almost a yard better per rush than Freddie before Freddie went down. How do you only give that guy 2 a carries a game? Idiots! Now Freddie is on IR. Maybe he would have ended on IR if he had one carry or 200. Who knows? Take away the joke of a Jets game with Levitre at Center and somebody else manning his spot and CJ would still have over 6yds/carry. I hope the kid finishes out the year and continues to improve with game time so that he and Freddie can form the formidable 1 - 2 punch that they should have been.

 

For a team that wants to rebuild in the draft we don't seem to use the guys we draft too much. Seems kind of dumb to me. This organization has veteranitis. CJ couldn't get playing time behind Freddie. SJ couldn't get playing time along side Lee Evans in front of the bums that we had opposite him. Maybin couldn't get playing time behind...I don't know....NOBODY. Take away the Washington game and Maybin might have more sacks that our entire team at this point. Are you telling me nobody on our coaching staff could figure out how to get that kind of production out of him while he was here? WTF?

 

That all being said. I STILL feel that

 

Marshawn Lynch + (#12 pick 2007 contract) + (2010 #9 overall pick)

 

is so far greater than

 

CJ SPiller + (#9 pick 2010 contract) + (2012 3rd rounder)

 

 

Depending on a persons definition of a luxury pick it is hard to agree or a disagree. If you wanted Marshawn who was an effective RB run out of town, CJ was a necessity. If you wanted to keep Marshawn CJ was a luxury.

[Homey D. Clown]

I have been waiting for this for almost 2 years. FINALLY only due to injury does Spiller get significant playing time and the kid is coming along JUST fine. He was averaging almost a yard better per rush than Freddie before Freddie went down. How do you only give that guy 2 a carries a game? Idiots! Now Freddie is on IR. Maybe he would have ended on IR if he had one carry or 200. Who knows? Take away the joke of a Jets game with Levitre at Center and somebody else manning his spot and CJ would still have over 6yds/carry. I hope the kid finishes out the year and continues to improve with game time so that he and Freddie can form the formidable 1 - 2 punch that they should have been.

 

For a team that wants to rebuild in the draft we don't seem to use the guys we draft too much. Seems kind of dumb to me. This organization has veteranitis. CJ couldn't get playing time behind Freddie. SJ couldn't get playing time along side Lee Evans in front of the bums that we had opposite him. Maybin couldn't get playing time behind...I don't know....NOBODY. Take away the Washington game and Maybin might have more sacks that our entire team at this point. Are you telling me nobody on our coaching staff could figure out how to get that kind of production out of him while he was here? WTF?

 

That all being said. I STILL feel that

 

Marshawn Lynch + (#12 pick 2007 contract) + (2010 #9 overall pick)

 

is so far greater than

 

CJ SPiller + (#9 pick 2010 contract) + (2012 3rd rounder)

 

 

Depending on a persons definition of a luxury pick it is hard to agree or a disagree. If you wanted Marshawn who was an effective RB run out of town, CJ was a necessity. If you wanted to keep Marshawn CJ was a luxury.

 

 

Well put, and most of the reason I feel the need to post this as soon as I did was to prove a point. I am not calling the guy a bust, but I am not exulting him to pro bowl status either. I just want the guy to play some games before he gets a TSW label.

 

I hope others reading this "get it" that I posted this so soon after he had a decent game, and see in my original post that I called him nothing more than talented, not the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.

[Dopey]

As you stated, there were many many holes to fill. At the time, the Bills had FredEX and Lynch. Both serviceable backs at least. The definition of a luxury pick, at least in my mind, is picking a player at a position where you have serviceable players already when many other positions on the team do not. This is clearly the case in my mind, and is why I called Spiller a luxury pick then, and now.

The key word is "serviceable". I liked the pick. We needed talent everywhere on the team. Lynch was as good as gone and Fred was a mystery(no one here knew he would be this good)and close to 30 yrs.old. So we drafted a RB we thought would be better than serviceable. He would have started if not for fred playing at an MVP level. Pretty hard for Chan to play him when Fred was tearing up the league. It wasn't a luxury pick unless you were fine with "serviceable" backs, one on his way out and one almost 30 yrs old that was a mystery. Now we get to play him for the last few weeks and he'll be that much more prepared for next season.IMO.

[Trader]

To all the boneheads who think a guy who hadn't carried the ball more than 10 times a game was a bust, or not tough enough to play every down, or couldn't hit a hole, blah, blah, blah...

 

Why aren't you posting all that garbage now? It's still early in his career, and he's clearly shown he's got some real talent, so how about questioning the pick now?

 

Spiller is clearly the most talented guy on offense right now with Freddie out, and people around here STILL can't admit it was way off base to say we didn't need him. I'll even admit it's still a bit early to seek out all the Spiller bashers on this board, but you have to be short a few beans in your burrito to think the guy was a wasted pick.

 

The luxury pick comment still kills me, like this team was EVER deep enough to even warrant that notion, and don't try to rationalize it with the actual fact that marshawn(Least Mode, I want out of buffalo, I have stepped sideways more than I have forwards in my career) Lynch on the team at the time, we all know the guy wasn't going to be around long, and even if he was, he really wasn't that good anyway.

 

How about giving a guy the chance to play a few games before crucifying him around here, if you look back at even my posts, I wanted the team to give Aaron Maybin the chance to at least play a full game(I'm still not sayig what he is doing in NJ is all that amazing), I am just Sayin' to coin a phrase.

I will question it they could have had a better running back later in the draft. Spiller has some talent but he fumbles and he drops passes. Spiller should not have been drafted by the Bills. There were greater needs elsewhere. We had Jackson and Lynch we gave a high first for Spiller and traded Lynch for a mid round pick. I would rather have Jackson, Lynch and a stud OL, DL or LB.

[JimBob2232]

Here's my problem.

 

YOU DONT DRAFT A RUNNING BACK IN THE FIRST ROUND! (And if you do, you damn well better hit a home run).

 

Look through the league. Any number of teams have good RBs who they have picked up later in the draft. A quick sampling:

 

Fred Jackson - undrafted

Turner - 5th Round

Murray - 3rd ROund

Gore - 3rd Round

Foster - Undrafted

Greene - 3rd Round

Hillis - 7th Round

Bradshaw - 7th Round

...I am sure there are others (and I'll spare you the Terrell Davis's)

 

Point is, RB is THE ONE POSITION where you can almost literally plug someone in and have them be successful. Maybe CJ isnt the guy, but guarentee you plug CJ in, White, and a couple other guy and eventually you will find you next Fred Jackson or Arian Foster. And it DIDNT cost you much money or any draft picks.`

 

Because of that, it was asinine to draft Willis McGahee when you had Travis Henry. But it was no more ridiculous than drafting Marshawn Lynch when you had Willis McGahee. Nor was it any more insane when they drafted Spiller when Lynch was on the roster. Those are 3 wasted picks to me (and they were at the time as well). Lets stop this. We can never draft another RB in the first round for as long as I am alive and I will be happy.

 

We waste enough first rounders when we actually pick a position that is difficult to fill. STOP WITH THE RBs.

[Gray Beard]

I wonder if Spiller will follow the pattern set by Whitner and Poz. Good but not great players, drafted too high, expecting big money on their second contract. In a couple of years will people be saying that Spiller isn't worth the money to re-sign, thus creating another hole in the never ending cycle? Too soon to say, but I will be curious to see how this unfolds.

[Orton's Arm]

Here's my problem.

 

YOU DONT DRAFT A RUNNING BACK IN THE FIRST ROUND! (And if you do, you damn well better hit a home run).

 

Look through the league. Any number of teams have good RBs who they have picked up later in the draft. A quick sampling:

 

Fred Jackson - undrafted

Turner - 5th Round

Murray - 3rd ROund

Gore - 3rd Round

Foster - Undrafted

Greene - 3rd Round

Hillis - 7th Round

Bradshaw - 7th Round

...I am sure there are others (and I'll spare you the Terrell Davis's)

 

Point is, RB is THE ONE POSITION where you can almost literally plug someone in and have them be successful. Maybe CJ isnt the guy, but guarentee you plug CJ in, White, and a couple other guy and eventually you will find you next Fred Jackson or Arian Foster. And it DIDNT cost you much money or any draft picks.`

 

Because of that, it was asinine to draft Willis McGahee when you had Travis Henry. But it was no more ridiculous than drafting Marshawn Lynch when you had Willis McGahee. Nor was it any more insane when they drafted Spiller when Lynch was on the roster. Those are 3 wasted picks to me (and they were at the time as well). Lets stop this. We can never draft another RB in the first round for as long as I am alive and I will be happy.

 

We waste enough first rounders when we actually pick a position that is difficult to fill. STOP WITH THE RBs.

 

This.

[Homey D. Clown]

Here's my problem.

 

YOU DONT DRAFT A RUNNING BACK IN THE FIRST ROUND! (And if you do, you damn well better hit a home run).

 

Look through the league. Any number of teams have good RBs who they have picked up later in the draft. A quick sampling:

 

Fred Jackson - undrafted

Turner - 5th Round

Murray - 3rd ROund

Gore - 3rd Round

Foster - Undrafted

Greene - 3rd Round

Hillis - 7th Round

Bradshaw - 7th Round

...I am sure there are others (and I'll spare you the Terrell Davis's)

 

Point is, RB is THE ONE POSITION where you can almost literally plug someone in and have them be successful. Maybe CJ isnt the guy, but guarentee you plug CJ in, White, and a couple other guy and eventually you will find you next Fred Jackson or Arian Foster. And it DIDNT cost you much money or any draft picks.`

 

Because of that, it was asinine to draft Willis McGahee when you had Travis Henry. But it was no more ridiculous than drafting Marshawn Lynch when you had Willis McGahee. Nor was it any more insane when they drafted Spiller when Lynch was on the roster. Those are 3 wasted picks to me (and they were at the time as well). Lets stop this. We can never draft another RB in the first round for as long as I am alive and I will be happy.

 

We waste enough first rounders when we actually pick a position that is difficult to fill. STOP WITH THE RBs.

 

 

CJ would have gone in the first round guaranteed, and probably would have started on the team that picked him, making his career further along than it is now, and everyone around here would have pissed and moaned on how we passed on the guy. He was the highest rated player on the board at #9, so you pick him since you had one running back with a career 3.7 YPC average who wants out, and the other at age 29 who hasn't been a starter in the league at that point.

 

So yes, your facts actually prove the RB position was a position of need, so it's completely senseless to pass on the highest rated RB in the draft at the time. This thread is not about any other RB picked by other GMs in the past, so lets leave that dead horse alone. As far as finding top tier RBs deeper in the draft, yes, it's possible.

 

I'd love to have a rebuttal that doesn't point to a useless Marshawn lynch, or an unproven Freddie(at the time), neither player was a game changer, or elite talent, so enough with that argument already, it's lame, weak, and just proves why you would take the highest rated RB in the draft at the time.

 

Again, I'd like to point out that I posted this after Spiller finally got a couple games under his belt, and I also will go so far as to say he will be a better back than the likes of Reggie Bush. I have no doubt this kid won't have any trouble starting where Reggie struggled. In one full game he already has more highlight runs than the guy we sent to seattle. I still can't for the life of me understand how people simply want to ignore the fact that a team with 0 pro bowlers at the RB position can see it as a luxury pick... just blindingly hard to understand.

Edited December 6, 2011 by McKinleys Curse

[Bill from NYC]

I'd love to have a rebuttal that doesn't point to a useless Marshawn lynch, or an unproven Freddie(at the time), neither player was a game changer, or elite talent, so enough with that argument already, it's lame, weak, and just proves why you would take the highest rated RB in the draft at the time.

 

I will try, although you will probably dislike, or perhaps even get angry at my reponse.

If you live in a beat up bungalo that needs a roof, bathroom, kitchen, and has a basement that leaks, would you put Anderson windows on it? Andersons are "good" windows, but the house itself won't be any good until the major needs are addressed.

Now, CJ, while he might be good some day, would appear to be a luxury that the Bills couldn't afford. After 28 games, are we really sure that he is an every down back? To add insult to (imo) injury, they RAN to the podium to make this selection. They didn't wait for last minute trade offers, which do happen. Then, Mr. Wilson was loving the pick, stating that the team needed "more excitement." This while we had no pass rush, no OTs, weak lbs, and was Trent still the qb?

So, as you requested, I left out Lynch and Jackson. And if you like the pick to this day, what's the problem? We can't agree on everything.

 

One question if I may: Trent Richardson may or may not be picked in the top 10. Who would you prefer, Richardson or Spiller?