thewildrabbit Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Injuries are not an excuse. I do not disagree with that. Apparently some of you missed the point of this thread. The lack of depth is the issue. The reason we lack depth is the point at which we are in our construction project. The defense does not lack talent, it lacks competent coaching from the defensive coordinator position(which is why I said the DC needs to go. Not once did I claim that the injuries are the reason we are where. I stated from the beginning that we are not yet in a place where we can contend because we are only partially into the rebuilding project. The Bills are vastly improved from just a season ago, but to think they had what it took to be a serious contender is delusional. Injuries do happen, and the elite teams are equipped to deal with them, the mediocre teams are not. The Bills are a mediocre team, but with another offseason to continue filling out the lower half of the roster, we will be in a much better position to absorb the personnel losses. I just don't see "vastly" improved, this regime might be more exciting to watch because at times Fitz looks like a capable QB. What is the bottom line in the NFL...its WINNING! This HC doesn't know how to pull out wins. Chan Gailey did the exact same thing as OC while he was with the Chiefs, calls for throws throws throws all the while having an "exciting offense" with a QB that throws for a bunch of yards, that team went 2-14. This man has yet to beat the moron Dick Jauron's record of 9-7! Actually this man is kinda like Jauron in the respect that he knows only the passing offense. At times the running game starts to look good and he abandons it to keep throwing out of the shotgun...kinda like Turk Schonert used to do! Gailey has absolutely no freaking clue on how to build a defense, much the same way Jauron was clueless about the offense. The GB Packers had a ton of starters on IR last year and still won the SB, so yea injuries are no excuse. This Bills team lacks decent starters and has very little depth to begin with. When Gailey took over he hired 3 new trainers that were supposed to help with all the injuries this franchise endures year after year. Whatever they are doing, it clearly isn't working!
8-8 Forever? Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 We didn't lose our "#3WR" if you mean Roscoe. He hasn't played in a year and we didn't win one game he played in. Nelson is our #2 WR, not Jones, who's not very good anyway. The Bills were in a free fall before FJ went out. They were going down before Woods was hurt also. The NFL is a war of attrition. Every team has to deal with many injuries throughout the season. That's what the draft is for. The teams with the most injuries suffer the most, usually, so this has been another tough year. If they can find four more starters in the coming draft they may start to turn it around. Only through the draft can the team improve. No top tier coaches or players will be coming to this franchise until long term ownership and direction is in place. The Bills unfortunately are still a place you either start your career or end it.
ThurmasThoman Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Thoughts? i believe they brought in a new strength and conditioning coach after jauron left, HOWEVER, there was a lockout this past offseason. a lot of teams have significant injuries this year, hardly surprising. detroit is losing players to injury too - they are also free falling. pats have edelman playing offense, defense, and special teams. the lockout/lack of offseason conditioning is why you have the same teams (new england, baltimore, pittsburgh, new orleans, green bay) that are good every year, being SO DECISIVELY at the top of the standings this year, and everyone else looking like complete also rans. next year figures to be a very different NFL season - but that is why the AFC has looked like such a mess thus far. houston on it's 3rd starting QB!
thurst44 Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Injuries are a BS excuse. The 1990 NY Giants lost their starting QB at the end of the season, how'd that turn out for them? We aren't the 1990 Giants. A rebuilding team, by its very definition, is not a perennially winning team that is SB-ready but for a player. And we didn't lose one player: we lost 5-6 high level players and a lot of role players. This team was not set for a playoff run healthy (any team can get lucky, but...), so the point is that the fact that they lost games with over half their team (and their best players on both sides of the ball) injured does not mean they are not on the right track.
3rdand12 Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 The lockout exposed our very young team. We have very good backups and depth. We are short of Exp starters right now! Lets hope that the youngsters out there will gain enough field smarts and position discipline to excel by next season. Remember when Chan started first practices as our new coach, he had the O line wearing knee braces? He also knew we are injury prone back then. Lock out,conditioning, youth and size (lack of) are all valid issues. That being said we need some very REAL pass rush threats to turn it around. That should be the priority off season
RyanC883 Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 I see all the negativity on this board about this season, but let's take a rational look at the status of this team vs. the Bills of 2010... The Bills of 2010 had little talent in the starting lineup and no depth. The Bills of 2011 have talent and ability in the starting lineup, but lack depth. This is in all reality the first year of the Nix/Gailey construction project as last year was a "let's see what we have and what we can do with it" season. Logically, when rebuilding, the first priority is to get talented and capable starters on the field. Secondly, you build the depth to back those starters up. Look at this season from the beginning. When healthy, with the Majority of the starting lineup in place, the Bills were a good, nearly dominant team. Then the injuries started... Offense: #1 LT(Bell) goes down #2 LT(Hairston) goes down #1 LG(Levitre) moves to LT, #2 LG(Rinehart) comes in. #3 Receiver(Parrish) goes down(IR) #2 Receiver(Jones) goes down, comes back weeks later, goes down again(IR) #1 Center(Wood) goes down(IR), #1 LG moves from LT to center, sucks. #1 RG(Urbik) moves to center, #2 LG moves to RG #1 RB and league leader in rushing and yards from scrimmage(Jackson) goes down(IR) Defense #1 CB(McGee) goes down, comes back weeks later, goes down again(IR) #1 WLB(Merriman) goes down(IR) #1 SLB(Kelsay) goes down for several weeks #1 NT(Williams) goes down #3 CB(Williams) goes down, comes back weeks later, goes down again #1 SS(Wilson) goes down(IR) Let me know if there is anyone I have missed. The Bills are basically in year two of their build, and have filled much of the starting lineup with quality NFL starters on both sides of the ball(the DC needs to go, but that is for another thread). Job#2 starts this offseason, backfilling the roster with quality depth players. Had the Bills stayed healthy this season, we and the national media would be singing a completely different tune. Unfortunately, at this point in the renovation, we simply do not have the depth to carry on after sustaining the number of injuries(especially at key positions) we have suffered. The Bills are a good team, and with the addition of decent backups and a new DC, they will be a team that is a serious contender to go on long post-season runs. So, in closing, remember where we are in our rebuild and what our limitations are. I think many on the board saw those first few games(with our quality starters on the field) and started to believe we were one of the elite teams in the AFC, when in fact, we are not yet there(but not too terribly far away). This team is a far cry from the piles of excrement we have watched for so many years. We are almost there, just be happy with the improvement and keep looking to the future, to a time when the Bills will reclaim their rightful place atop the AFC East. That is an impressive argument you make. But it is severly flawed. You assume that Steve Johnson and Fred Jackson will be back next year. You also miss the point that the "lack of depth" results from Ralph being cheap and cutting decent backup O-lineman. This team will NEVER rebuild. They shed decent backups to "save money." There will never be depth. Injuries are not an excuse in the NFL. They happen and you have to be ready for them. Good teams overcome them (Green Bay loosing it's #1 RB, #1 Pro Bowl caliber TE last season and winning a Super Bowl). We aren't the 1990 Giants. A rebuilding team, by its very definition, is not a perennially winning team that is SB-ready but for a player. And we didn't lose one player: we lost 5-6 high level players and a lot of role players. This team was not set for a playoff run healthy (any team can get lucky, but...), so the point is that the fact that they lost games with over half their team (and their best players on both sides of the ball) injured does not mean they are not on the right track. This is the same excuse every year. Oh we had injuries. Well, no sh*t. EVERY TEAM in the NFL has injuries. The Saints lost their top WR (Colston) for a few weeks this year. Green Bay won last year w/o key players. The reason: depth. How do you get depth. Draft well and pay your backups. Neither of which the Bills do. i believe they brought in a new strength and conditioning coach after jauron left, HOWEVER, there was a lockout this past offseason. a lot of teams have significant injuries this year, hardly surprising. detroit is losing players to injury too - they are also free falling. (they are free falling due to stupid mistakes by Shu et. al costing their team 15 yard penalities at innopprotune times. Their backup RB's look pretty good) pats have edelman playing offense, defense, and special teams. (Yet, the Pats are still doing well) the lockout/lack of offseason conditioning is why you have the same teams (new england, baltimore, pittsburgh, new orleans, green bay) [you just mentioned the Pats were injured, now you use them in the "same team" argument. YOu can't have it both ways. Balt is playing w/o Ray Lewis. Pittsburgh is using two young receives who have stepped up (Brown and Saunders) and even found a way to work in a rookie TE (who the Bills should have drafted) (Saunders from Univ South Carolina)] that are good every year, being SO DECISIVELY at the top of the standings this year, and everyone else looking like complete also rans. next year figures to be a very different NFL season - but that is why the AFC has looked like such a mess thus far. houston on it's 3rd starting QB! [Yet they will still make the Playoffs. And they are without their top WR.]
Dopey Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Uh huh. So that explains why Wood, Kyle Williams, and Fred Jackson were lost for the year? Yeah, "simple as that". Whatever. There's an awful lot of complainers here who want to find new excuses to whine about the front office. If that's your entertainment, go for it, but can anyone bring some actual facts that line up with reality? And yet more depth comments, but still no answer to my question about all the other teams and their 3rd string OLTs. Btw - I was watching some of the Ravens today - guess what one of the main themes was: They have been lucky this year to have very few injuries. Only 3. Guess maybe that's why they're 9-3, huh? Injuries are "no excuse" - except that they have a lot to do with who wins and loses in the NFL - and it's often just bad luck. It is often bad luck, but not when it's year after year. My father said in 1980 - our first division championship of my fandom - that he can tell this is a good team, because good teams don't get injured as much as they injure the other team. That year we lost Jeff Nixon and got Bill Simpson out of retirement to take his place. And, that was it. One major loss. You think it's a coincidence that a tough, physical team like the Ravens have had few injuries? That's just like when the Sabres lost all the defensemen in 07. Was it a coincidence that we were the speedy, finesse team? Yes, it is a coincidence. In 07 the Ravens were 5-11. They lost 3-4 OL that season and you could see the difference. Our offense was clicking when the OL was healthy, and thats without a deap threat. By next season we'll have better depth on the OL. Thats where it starts.
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