Beerball Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buff_bills4ever Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Wouldn't be there if the Germans hadn't started the war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Wouldn't be there if the Germans hadn't started the war Really. Only thing I feel bad about is we had so many duds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) Wouldn't be there if the Germans hadn't started the war Sorry, but as a German American, I would hope it would be clarified that Nazis, not Germans, were the perpetrators of WWII. Just like in this country, it's not appropriate to say "Americans" ruined it...it's more politically correct to say the "Democrats" ruined it. Edited December 4, 2011 by ajzepp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buff_bills4ever Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Sorry, but as a German American, I would hope it would be clarified that Nazis, not Germans, were the perpetrators of WWII. Just like in this country, it's not appropriate to say "Americans" ruined it...it's more politically correct to say the "Democrats" ruined it. That's such a cop out."We didn't do it, the NAZIs did." The fact of the matter is that most Germans bought into the NAZI nationalist propaganda, and turned a blind eye to their atrocities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 That's such a cop out."We didn't do it, the NAZIs did." The fact of the matter is that most Germans bought into the NAZI nationalist propaganda, and turned a blind eye to their atrocities. Most of them did? How many exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Most of them did? How many exactly? Enough to put them in power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Enough to put them in power. I actually asked this question once to someone who was affiliated with the Museum of Tolerance. They explained to me that the Nazis went to great lengths to keep secret their plans. There was a lot of political pressure to comply with laws passed in and around Germany that pertained to discrimination against Jews, and yes, this is inexcusable. But I'm sorry, most Germans were not aware of nor on board with plans for the genocide that took place there. Nazis can burn in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I actually asked this question once to someone who was affiliated with the Museum of Tolerance. They explained to me that the Nazis went to great lengths to keep secret their plans. There was a lot of political pressure to comply with laws passed in and around Germany that pertained to discrimination against Jews, and yes, this is inexcusable. But I'm sorry, most Germans were not aware of nor on board with plans for the genocide that took place there. Nazis can burn in hell. Never said they where. But, no question the Nazis had popular support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Never said they where. But, no question the Nazis had popular support. Yes, but the reason they had popular support had to do with nationalism and the desire for a stronger Germany, not because Nazis were evil F'ers who wanted to murder a group of people. We are not that far removed in this country from the manner in which we treated African Americans. There were a lot of people here who were in favor of segregation and "acceptable forms of discrimination", as well. It may have been more on the state level than a federal level, but the example is pertinent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 This is a bit of an aside, but I thought I'd share with you guys a story from my experience as an RN (and as a human). Back in 2003 I was working a senior psych floor at a local Atlanta hospital. I took report on the patients I was responsible for that shift, and I went off to do my rounds and check some vitals. I went into one room and there was little man, thick white hair, approx 92 y.o.. He was very polite, and I noticed that he had an accent that was not one I immediately placed. Anyway, I went do to his blood pressure, and I saw a tattooed number on his arm...it looked pretty old and worn, and it was maybe like 8 or 9 digits long, IIRC. I noticed him looking at my name tag as I was taking the blood pressure. He couldn't see very well, so he sort of grabbed/patted my arm and said, "I can't quite see your name...what is your last name?" I told him it was Zeppenfeld, and it was pretty much at that moment that I realized exactly who was sitting in front of me. Now my family came to American in the late 1800s, and I have about as much connection (in practice) with Germany as I do Zimbabwe. But that is my heritage, and I often identify with it (this thread is an example of such). I was so emotionally upset at the thought of this man having to go through what is my understanding of a Nazi concentration camp that I had to step away an take a longer break than usual to get composed. I will never become desensitized to the atrocities committed on German soil; being German-American ensures that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Yes, but the reason they had popular support had to do with nationalism and the desire for a stronger Germany, not because Nazis were evil F'ers who wanted to murder a group of people. We are not that far removed in this country from the manner in which we treated African Americans. There were a lot of people here who were in favor of segregation and "acceptable forms of discrimination", as well. It may have been more on the state level than a federal level, but the example is pertinent. I understand your point. But "separate but equal" is a long ways from a death camp fed by cattle cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I understand your point. But "separate but equal" is a long ways from a death camp fed by cattle cars. Yes, exactly. That's what I'm saying. The "separate but equal" part was the sort of thing Germans were on board with and accepting of with regard to the Jewish people. That IS a long way from the death camp thing, and that's why I make this distinction to begin with. Can you today say that "all Americans are racists who support the murder and extinction of all AFrican Americans"? Of course not. Even though back in the middle part of last century you had people in the south (and in the north, Im sure) who WERE taking part in lynchings and murders, you can't just take the leap and say that all Southern Americans were on board with this, even if they happened to hear about that sort of behavior and knew it was going on. I don't know if I'm articulating myself properly here, as it's 4am, but I know the point I'm TRYING to make here lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Yes, exactly. That's what I'm saying. The "separate but equal" part was the sort of thing Germans were on board with and accepting of with regard to the Jewish people. That IS a long way from the death camp thing, and that's why I make this distinction to begin with. Can you today say that "all Americans are racists who support the murder and extinction of all AFrican Americans"? Of course not. Even though back in the middle part of last century you had people in the south (and in the north, Im sure) who WERE taking part in lynchings and murders, you can't just take the leap and say that all Southern Americans were on board with this, even if they happened to hear about that sort of behavior and knew it was going on. I don't know if I'm articulating myself properly here, as it's 4am, but I know the point I'm TRYING to make here lol. Up early or all night? Difference is the lynchings where the acts of individuals not a planed policy by the government. I am not claiming the average German approved of or even knew of the death camps. If they did know they would be powerless to to stop it. Really this was not about treatment of Jews anyway, it was more about the militarist lets take back whats ours and then some more policy the Germans KNEW the Nazis would implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 That's such a cop out."We didn't do it, the NAZIs did." The fact of the matter is that most Germans bought into the NAZI nationalist propaganda, and turned a blind eye to their atrocities. That's not true. I always used to watch the half-hour documentary about POW camps that was shown every week on CBS in the late 1960's. That documentary showed that the Nazis were a bunch of bungling boobs who couldn't get out of their own way. And TV never lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 That's not true. I always used to watch the half-hour documentary about POW camps that was shown every week on CBS in the late 1960's. That documentary showed that the Nazis were a bunch of bungling boobs who couldn't get out of their own way. And TV never lies. Not exactly. Schulz knew every thing,but saw nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) Up early or all night? Difference is the lynchings where the acts of individuals not a planed policy by the government. I am not claiming the average German approved of or even knew of the death camps. If they did know they would be powerless to to stop it. Really this was not about treatment of Jews anyway, it was more about the militarist lets take back whats ours and then some more policy the Germans KNEW the Nazis would implement. Definitely not up early...not my style Just about bed time for bonzo. Thanks for the discussion Edited December 4, 2011 by ajzepp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Definitely not up early...not my style Just about bed time for bonzo. Thanks for the discussion Sure. I aways like your posts. Sleepy time here to[2.42 AM] and I am full of beer and need to get up for the 9am Bills game. Life can be hard sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 That's not true. I always used to watch the half-hour documentary about POW camps that was shown every week on CBS in the late 1960's. That documentary showed that the Nazis were a bunch of bungling boobs who couldn't get out of their own way. And TV never lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Yes, exactly. That's what I'm saying. The "separate but equal" part was the sort of thing Germans were on board with and accepting of with regard to the Jewish people. That IS a long way from the death camp thing, and that's why I make this distinction to begin with. Can you today say that "all Americans are racists who support the murder and extinction of all AFrican Americans"? Of course not. Even though back in the middle part of last century you had people in the south (and in the north, Im sure) who WERE taking part in lynchings and murders, you can't just take the leap and say that all Southern Americans were on board with this, even if they happened to hear about that sort of behavior and knew it was going on. I don't know if I'm articulating myself properly here, as it's 4am, but I know the point I'm TRYING to make here lol. The seed that grows is the one where some subgroup is seen as less than. It starts out in small ways and for a sick few turns into less than human or even more extreme less than animals. The Germans hardly own the concept of genocide. They are only the most recent white people to carry it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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