Lv-Bills Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) Actually that's in-house attendance, not percentage sold. All four Bills home games so far have been sellouts. That will obviously change after this week. They have been sellouts because you are allowed to declare games soldout if you sell all of your non-premium seats. The Bills have not "completely" soldout a game this year. There have been many club seats available for each home game as well as suite tickets in the endzone clubs. The Bills have had a couple of thousand non-premium seats available and unsold for each home game this year. The same thing is happening in Washington with the Skins. Edited November 30, 2011 by Lv-Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaineMoxie Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Sorry, but it's all about the TV market, thats were the money is. Like I said: branding and merchandising. It's not even about football anymore. The column you want to sort by using that chart is the first PCT. column... That will tell you what percentage of the seats are sold. While the Bills are ahead of NE on average attendance, NE's attendance is 100%, while the Bills' is 94.5 Bills sell more seats because of ticket price and the fact that RWS capacity is bigger than Gillette Stadium. -Bill Makes you wonder just how accurate some of these numbers are. We know Jacksonville "fiddled" with their numbers by covering up seats. But, as numerous people have pointed out, it's no longer about how many fans are actually in the stands. It's about the brand (I mean, look at the Yankees - they got admonished by MLB because the seats behind homeplate - which are the ones everyone on TV sees - were empty most of the time because they cost $2000 apiece). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Sorry, but it's all about the TV market, thats were the money is. No, national TV revenue is shared equally. Like I said: branding and merchandising. It's not even about football anymore. Again, no. The NFL licensing fee on all merchandise is also shared equally. It's amazing how many people are misinformed when it comes to NFL revenue sharing. Local TV markets and jersey sales are a pittance in terms of a team's overall revenue. The biggest disparity between franchise revenue over the past 15 years has been from luxury box seating, which is exempt from the 60-40 gate split. Did you know gate revenue was split 60-40? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDD Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Last winning season - 2004 Last playoff appearance - 1999 Last home playoff appearance - 1996 Last playoff win - 1995 Last AFC East Title - 1995 (Good Lord!) Last Super Bowl appearance - 1993 Last Super Bowl victory - never Last League Championship - 1965 (AFL) 377-427-8 record 19 winning seasons out of 51 (52 after this season) Owner gives 5 home games away to another city for $$$ And yet, the fans are ridiculously loyal to this team and for the most part, fill the building year after year after year. I can't think of another fan base enduring what Bills' fans have endured and remaining this rabid and this loyal to the team with the possible exception of the Cubs (and Cubs' fans seem to have bought into a "lovable loser" persona for their team - don't think Bills' fans have ever done that with this team). Ownership and senior management, infinitely more committed to squeezing money out of the franchis than bringing it a championship, need to pay some tribute to their fanbase. They deserve it. Sweet Jesus. 16 year old teenagers were not even born when the Bills last won a playoff game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTW2012 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 They have been sellouts because you are allowed to declare games soldout if you sell all of your non-premium seats. The Bills have not "completely" soldout a game this year. There have been many club seats available for each home game as well as suite tickets in the endzone clubs. The Bills have had a couple of thousand non-premium seats available and unsold for each home game this year. The same thing is happening in Washington with the Skins. The attendance figures in question are based on the number of fans at the games, and the percentage is based on the stadiums' seating capacity. When the Bills were setting attendance records in the early 90s it was based on the number of fans at the games. The teams with over 100 percent are counting standing room fans in addition to the fans in the seats. Interestingly, the Bills are the lowest attended road team in the league, no doubt in part because 2 of their road games were at Cincy and Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) When you consider that Rich Stadium held 80,020 when it opened and Ralph somehow shoehorned another 400 seats into the place (I believe sellout capacity was around 80,400 during the Superbowl run), it's amazing that a city like Buffalo consistently used to have sell outs. At one point, back in the late '80s/early '90sm RW was even ruminating about taking capacity up to 100,000 by filling in the corners! Bills fans are as loyal as they come - start winning consistently, give us a playoff-caliber product, and the place will be filled every week. GO BILLSSS!!!! 14 and 6 baby!!!!! "I expect to win." - Chan Gailey Edited November 30, 2011 by The Senator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) We will be rewarded soon by the incredibly stupid marketing "Genius" Russ Brandon, as they are secretly planning on playing 2....YES... 2 actual "home" games in Toronto after the current steaming piece of crap series is up. The team will essentially be reduced to 6 home games a season, and even more so I feel this whole thing is an embarrassment to the fans and city who have blindly supported one of the most colossally unsuccessful NFL franchises in history over it's entire lifespan. This is what they want, to make it so bad that the fans actually want the team gone, rather than suffer through the misery, or so it seems.... what other excuse is there? Small market teams can't succeed? GIVE ME A F-ING BREAK. There isn't anyone on the planet outside of WNY that believes that BS. I am very passionate about the toronto embarrassment, and I can't fathom how this could benefit anyone in either city. Large corporate sponsors could get the same exposure on national TV if they: .... follow me here, this is where it gets ridiculously tricky for "geniuses" like Russ Brandon and company.... SELL SOME ADVERTISING IN Ralph Wilson Stadium... Whew... that was hard to come up with.... In case anyone was unaware, RWS doesn't have corporate sponsorship, IE "Rich Products"...etc because Ralph Wilson doesn't want it, and this is actual inside information here, he has consistently refused to allow sponsorship naming rights since it has been available the last 10 years. Why would a man crying poverty in WNY do this? You tell me. I know in good faith that a few sponsors have even come from the Toronto area as well, but still it hasn't materialized. If you need some writing on the wall here you go. your welcome loyal WNY Bills fans, and some like me 40+ years of support, it's tough to compete in the NFL Whoe is me. It's no wonder bigger market owners like Jerry Jones wants to choke RW, they have to share their profits with the guy when the same marketing efforts aren't even pursued in his own back yard. For the life of me I can't figure this one out, and maybe I would be able to rationalize it if I didn't know as much about this as I do. Ralph Wilson lovers bash away, and be ever so thankful he hasn't moved the team away from Erie county...yet. Edited November 30, 2011 by McKinleys Curse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Makes you wonder how teams like Cincinnati stay in business. Oh, wait, it's all about merchandise and branding these days. I forgot. They clearly have terrible fans. They are on a resurgance this year with a rookie QB and WR who are fantastic. Imagine if we had that combo in Buffalo. Oh, and they have a good defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaineMoxie Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) No, national TV revenue is shared equally. Again, no. The NFL licensing fee on all merchandise is also shared equally. It's amazing how many people are misinformed when it comes to NFL revenue sharing. Local TV markets and jersey sales are a pittance in terms of a team's overall revenue. The biggest disparity between franchise revenue over the past 15 years has been from luxury box seating, which is exempt from the 60-40 gate split. Did you know gate revenue was split 60-40? I never meant that this obsession with branding had anything to do with actual revenue. No offense to any of you out there who are excellent marketing people, but my personal experience (repeatedly) has been that there is sometimes a tendency to focus too much on marketing, especially when the marketing folks are given too much say in the actual product itself. In normal business, focusing too heavily on marketing to the detriment of the product itself usually ends in abject failure. In the NFL, the revenue sharing deals that are in place seem to actually reward teams like the Bills who focus more on the overall NFL experience "package" since they're partly propped up by the league. I'm starting to think that revenue sharing has its drawbacks (though it also clearly has its advantages as well). Edited December 1, 2011 by MaineMoxie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Small market teams can't succeed? GIVE ME A F-ING BREAK. There isn't anyone on the planet outside of WNY that believes that BS. Actually, the only people who do believe small market teams can survive are the fans living in small markets. Outside of Green Bay, what small market teams are thriving financially right now and succeeding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Actually, the only people who do believe small market teams can survive are the fans living in small markets. Outside of Green Bay, what small market teams are thriving financially right now and succeeding? Successful small market teams besides Green Bay? Pittsburgh is the 59th most populous city in the US. New Orleans is 52nd. Of the top 50 US cities in population, 25 of them have NFL teams. Of small market teams, Tampa won a Super Bowl in 2002 and they're 55th. St Louis won a Super Bowl and they're 58th. Cincinnati is 62nd. Buffalo is 70th. Of course city populations are not always representative of true market size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTW2012 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Successful small market teams besides Green Bay? Pittsburgh is the 59th most populous city in the US. New Orleans is 52nd. Of the top 50 US cities in population, 25 of them have NFL teams. Of small market teams, Tampa won a Super Bowl in 2002 and they're 55th. St Louis won a Super Bowl and they're 58th. Cincinnati is 62nd. Buffalo is 70th. Of course city populations are not always representative of true market size. Metropolitan areas- Tampa is 19, Pittsburgh is 22, St. Louis 18, Buffalo 47, New Orleans 46. Using city populations alone is plain ridiculous. link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Using city populations alone is plain ridiculous. link Yes I know. That's why I said this: Of course city populations are not always representative of true market size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaz Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 WTF! This nonsense again? This team was 5-2 at one point and still couldn't sell out its games. Drop the "greatest fans" BS. We're not. Great fans don't stop going to playoff games because they lost two Super Bowls. We are essentially front runners now...and even then! PTR I hate to agree, but I agree. Though, the proper word (at least in the context of the early-to-mid 90s) was "complacency" amongst the fan base, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I hope no one takes this the wrong way but it needs to be mentioned. Patriots have the 2nd highest average ticket price at $226. The Bills average ticket price is 30th at $79. http://seatgeek.com/blog/nfl/average-nfl-ticket-prices-after-week-1-2011 I have been a Bills fan for way over 40 years, but I have to admit, at least over the past decade plus, even though the Pats tickets are 3 times the amount of the Bills' tickets, they have gotten much more for their dollar, and it isn't even close. Makes you wonder how teams like Cincinnati stay in business. Oh, wait, it's all about merchandise and branding these days. I forgot. You can't lose money in the NFL if you are an owner, with the TV packages and revenue sharing. I do find it funny on here how so many people pick on Cincinnati like they are this terrible franchise, so far below us Buffalo Bills fans. The truth is, the Bungals have been division winners a couple times since we came close to sniffing the playoffs. They are clearly on the upswing now as far as a team, and we seem to be going in the opposite direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOKIE Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I'm with ya. Here's an honest suggestion for the Bills front office: If we have another losing season, give out game tickets or Bills gear to the 1,000 most active posters on TBD. Any team, in fact, that doesn't make the playoffs in a decade and then caps the 11th year with a losing season should be rewarding their most loyal fans, IMO. Except that the 967 out of the top 1000 posters do nothing but complain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Except that the 967 out of the top 1000 posters do nothing but complain... And it is the other 33 that are so dilusional they don't see the terrible product on the field year after year, and are even more dilusional in thinking that Ralph is going to give anything away free because they post on a website that the Bills don't even own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbash Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 At the very least, Ralph could reward all of us with a succession plan. I'd settle for that, instead of this seemingly petulant, childish cloak of mystery. At his age, he has probably reverted to an emotional five year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOKIE Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) And it is the other 33 that are so dilusional they don't see the terrible product on the field year after year, and are even more dilusional in thinking that Ralph is going to give anything away free because they post on a website that the Bills don't even own. Why so serious? Obviously, the Bills make your life miserable. Does it somehow make you feel better to be critical toward anyone and everything positive that is muttered on this board. Get a grip man. Edited December 1, 2011 by Stranger in a Strange Land Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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