simpleman Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) I keep reading on the board about our bad drafting. And then I see players leaving us and finding reasonable success elsewhere. Is it really all just bad drafting, or should we be looking at the coaching and conditioning training as well? Raw talent often needs polishing. Do we spend too much time blaming just the drafting and not ask ourselves if Buffalo spends enough time finding the strengths of their players, finding ways of adapting those strengths to our overall game plans, and trying harder to develop the required skills the players are weak in? Yes, we may draft players too high, but shouldn't we try to get the most out of our bad choices, forgetting the draft position, and concentrating on getting the best we can out of the players we have. Edited November 28, 2011 by simpleman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I keep reading on the board about our bad drafting. And then I see players leaving us and finding reasonable success elsewhere. Is it really all just bad drafting, or should we be looking at the coaching and conditioning training as well? Raw talent often needs polishing. Do we spend too much time blaming just the drafting and not ask ourselves if Buffalo spends enough time finding the strengths of their players, finding ways of adapting those strengths to our overall game plans, and trying harder to develop the required skills the players are weak in? Yes, we may draft players too high, but shouldn't we try to get the most out of our bad choices, forgetting the draft position, and concentrating on getting the best we can out of the players we have. It's three things: 1) bad drafting 2) bad coaching 3) failure to retain quality players, forcing us to draft at that position again instead of at other positions of need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirginiaMike Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 It's three things: 1) bad drafting 2) bad coaching 3) failure to retain quality players, forcing us to draft at that position again instead of at other positions of need I have to agree with this assessment, especially the 3rd one. There are examples around the league of players that, for a little money, would still be very productive Bills. Do you think we could use J. Greer as cornerback? Jim Leonard at safety? London Fletcher at LB? Jason Peters at L Tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Both... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Bad owner, everything else rolls downhill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Bad owner, everything else rolls downhill. Too true... I was wondering yesterday while watching Maybin cause so much havoc on Passing Downs that The Bills finally started to double-team him late in the Game...What was the REAL reason The Bills cut Maybin?...OK, we know the Kid is completely one-dimensional...Chan spoke about that often...But it's a dimension this Team has zero, notta, nothing at...And I wonder if the reason Maybin was cut outright had more to do with what he was going to be paid for that one dimension? I mean...From all accounts Maybin was a hard working, dedicated Kid who's teammates liked him...The move now has "Ralph" written all over it...Whether it was Ralph, or one of his cronies, the business model he set up...whatever...After seeing Maybin get 5 sacks and 3 forced fumbles in 8 games, is there really any question The Bills pushed him out the door prematurely? Especially considering this Teams inability to rush the freaking passer? Maybin is no different a player with The Jets...He's the same guy he was here...He's one-dimensional, skinny, whatever...But he CAN rush the passer...He's proving it...So maybe, just maybe, Ralph's business model disallowed paying #11 overall cash to a one-dimensional player? Maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) Too true... I was wondering yesterday while watching Maybin cause so much havoc on Passing Downs that The Bills finally started to double-team him late in the Game...What was the REAL reason The Bills cut Maybin?...OK, we know the Kid is completely one-dimensional... If Pears could do anything other than Ole him, Maybin would have been a non-factor. Maybin has one thing - speed. He has no moves to get to the passer other than to run around the tackle on the outside. This is the easiest thing for a tackle to defend. You simply push him wide and way out of the play. Yet time and time again, inexplicably, Maybin ran around Pears. So....infuriating... I didn't find myself wishing Maybin had done this for the Bills, I found myself wishing that Pears would do what he does for another team as well. Edited November 28, 2011 by MDH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 If Pears could do anything other than Ole him, Maybin would have been a non-factor. Maybin has one thing - speed. He has no moves to get to the passer other than to run around the tackle on the outside. This is the easiest thing for a tackle to defend. You simply push him wide and way out of the play. Yet time and time again, inexplicably, Maybin ran around Pears. So....infuriating... I didn't find myself wishing Maybin had done this for the Bills, I found myself wishing that Pears would do what he does for another team as well. Seriously? The Bills have ZERO Pass Rush...NOTHING!!! I could care less if it was Pears or Maybin...He's got 5 Sacks and 3 FF in 8 Games...This Team is so desperate for Pass Rush...It's not even funny...Maybin's speed is going to beat mismatches throughout the NFL...By no means am I saying Maybin is all that...He is what he is...But what he is, as limited as it may be...The Bills could use that in the worst way right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markgbe Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) I think the Defensive problems are mostly bad coaching but we could also use a couple pass rushers. i think the Offense is decent. Maybe 2 or 3 guys away from a solid offense(including o-line) Great defenses can win games alone. Great offenses rarely win games alone. All i want for Xmas are new defensive schemes and Dave Wannstedt as DC. Edited November 28, 2011 by markgbe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 The Bills are 9-18 under Chan's offense. He needs to hire an offensive coordinator. Being a head coach is time consuming enough for a 60 year old man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Dareus, Williams, Sheppard, Searcy and Hairston all started yesterday as rookies, and all played fairly well (especially for rookies). I'm hoping this "bad drafting" argument starts to go away. Im ok with the way our Offense is being handled. Which brings us to Defensive Coaching... Not sure anything even needs to be said anymore other than "You're Fired" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Bad Owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny33 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I think the Defensive problems are mostly bad coaching but we could also use a couple pass rushers. i think the Offense is decent. Maybe 2 or 3 guys away from a solid offense(including o-line) Great defenses can win games alone. Great offenses rarely win games alone. All i want for Xmas are new defensive schemes and Dave Wannstedt as DC. I don't think that's the case anymore with all the changes favoring QBs' protection and WRs from being touched. Look at the Patriots, Saints, and Cowboys, all of whom have terrible defenses and quality offenses. Even the Packers have a mediocre defense that has a few top-5 players that make key stops or cause turnovers. Jacksonville and Cleveland have top-10 defenses and are bottom-10 teams this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Too true... I was wondering yesterday while watching Maybin cause so much havoc on Passing Downs that The Bills finally started to double-team him late in the Game...What was the REAL reason The Bills cut Maybin?...OK, we know the Kid is completely one-dimensional...Chan spoke about that often...But it's a dimension this Team has zero, notta, nothing at...And I wonder if the reason Maybin was cut outright had more to do with what he was going to be paid for that one dimension? I mean...From all accounts Maybin was a hard working, dedicated Kid who's teammates liked him...The move now has "Ralph" written all over it...Whether it was Ralph, or one of his cronies, the business model he set up...whatever...After seeing Maybin get 5 sacks and 3 forced fumbles in 8 games, is there really any question The Bills pushed him out the door prematurely? Especially considering this Teams inability to rush the freaking passer? Maybin is no different a player with The Jets...He's the same guy he was here...He's one-dimensional, skinny, whatever...But he CAN rush the passer...He's proving it...So maybe, just maybe, Ralph's business model disallowed paying #11 overall cash to a one-dimensional player? Maybe? You get it. It starts at the top. Someone in the leadership must have decided that if Maybin was going to get the cash he had to play every down. Maybin can't do that but he can rush the passer on third and long. Of course the Bills D seldom creates third and longs but that is another issue. The Bills organization is INEPT and that is far worse than cheap. The Steelers and Packers are also cheap but they are not inept. It starts at the top ... the top .. the top. Was it Edwards call to cut Maybin? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Dareus, Williams, Sheppard, Searcy and Hairston all started yesterday as rookies, and all played fairly well (especially for rookies). I'm hoping this "bad drafting" argument starts to go away. All of those players are from the 2011 class. Where is the 2010 draft class? Buddy set this team back a full year with that draft and has made some brutal FA acquisitions. Counting on guys like Merriman with no back up plan has forced the coaches into playing DT's at OLB. Nix is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 All of those players are from the 2011 class. Where is the 2010 draft class? Buddy set this team back a full year with that draft and has made some brutal FA acquisitions. Counting on guys like Merriman with no back up plan has forced the coaches into playing DT's at OLB. Nix is a joke. He was barely on the job for 120 days for that first draft. They had no idea what they really had. Heck, even Trent looked like he might actually become a player (until the real season started). Going into the 2010 draft, we needed Talent and D-Line first and foremost (on top of every other position), and that's what Buddy tried to get. Plus, Modrak and Guy were still around. So take 2010 with a grain of salt and look at the rebuild process as a whole. Interested in what Nix/Whaley do in the 2012 draft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 All of those players are from the 2011 class. Where is the 2010 draft class? Buddy set this team back a full year with that draft and has made some brutal FA acquisitions. Counting on guys like Merriman with no back up plan has forced the coaches into playing DT's at OLB. Nix is a joke. I am willing to give Nix a slight pass on that 2010 draft, as I am not sure how much he was actually involved in the process that early on. There was a certain someone who was a major influence on that draft and was let go after the 2011 draft (of which he complained about having little influence). It will be interesting to see how well the team drafts going forward. As for the original question about weak drafts versus coaching/player development, I think there are other factors equally at play here. 1. The Bills front-line players are actually pretty good (with the exception of quality DEs and OLBs). That helps to explain the 3-0 start (when they were mostly healthy) and recent woes as injuries have started to mount. Dealing with injuries is a problem for all 32 teams; the Bills lack the depth to overcome this. 2. There has certainly been problems from a scouting perspective -- and in improperly assessing the existing state of affairs. For example, the team placed WAY to much faith in Merriman's ability to return to being the force he once was in San Diego. Clearly, they went into the draft believing that OLB was not a position that needed upgrading. Now they have 0 decent OLBs and are trying to play guys out of position. 3. Lack of continuity has been a major problem. The transition from Jauron's variation of the Tampa-2 toward a 3-4 model is about as extreme as could be. Chan is one of those guy who as an OC understands the importance of shifting his schemes to best accommodate his players. It's a shame that he didn't hire an equally adept DC. I understand that a coach can only do so much with the players that he has to work with... but any scheme devised by a coach who would place Spencer Johnson in a situation in which he must contain speedy rushers from getting to the outside is just BAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 He was barely on the job for 120 days for that first draft. They had no idea what they really had. Heck, even Trent looked like he might actually become a player (until the real season started). Going into the 2010 draft, we needed Talent and D-Line first and foremost (on top of every other position), and that's what Buddy tried to get. Plus, Modrak and Guy were still around. So take 2010 with a grain of salt and look at the rebuild process as a whole. Interested in what Nix/Whaley do in the 2012 draft! Dr.D, you are a good guy no doubt but you make waaayyyyyy too many excuses. Are you going to tell me that in 120 days that he couldn't see that the Bills had no edge rush or OLBs? Or that Freddy and Marshawn were pretty good? How about the fact that the Oline sucked? You wouldn't have to be on the job for 1 minute to figure those facts out. But you're saying Buddy needed more time? This was Nix's draft and he blew it. I've said it from the very beginning that I didn't like the Nix hiring. If he was such a scary talent he would've been hired long before his 70th birthday. He's proving all the teams who routinely passes on him right. He's clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Maybin is no different a player with The Jets...He's the same guy he was here...He's one-dimensional, skinny, whatever...But he CAN rush the passer...He's proving it...So maybe, just maybe, Ralph's business model disallowed paying #11 overall cash to a one-dimensional player? Maybe? Aint it the truth - at 11, you dont take a guy who can do only one thing good. It's like taking an OT who can't run block there....That's why these guys go in the 3rd, 4th, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) Dr.D, you are a good guy no doubt but you make waaayyyyyy too many excuses. Are you going to tell me that in 120 days that he couldn't see that the Bills had no edge rush or OLBs? Or that Freddy and Marshawn were pretty good? How about the fact that the Oline sucked? You wouldn't have to be on the job for 1 minute to figure those facts out. But you're saying Buddy needed more time? This was Nix's draft and he blew it. I've said it from the very beginning that I didn't like the Nix hiring. If he was such a scary talent he would've been hired long before his 70th birthday. He's proving all the teams who routinely passes on him right. He's clueless. How do you replace almost an entire 52 man roster with 7 picks? YES, there were holes that weren't addressed. But no matter what they did, there were going to be holes left unaddressed. You also forget that we still had our leading sack master (Schobel) in the mix when evaluating that team. So yes, we had an outside rush at that time. You can ask Aaron why he sandbagged us, Im simply moving on. Im not making excuses, Im simply patient. NO ONE turns a team around in one offseason. Especially a franchise that was in as bad of shape as the Bills. Not the Dolphins, not the Falcons. NO ONE. Get a grip. Edited November 28, 2011 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts