KOKBILLS Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 Just wondering, but you know Tyler Thigpen is the "backup" QB, right? Good point...And based on the 1st 7 Games I think you've got to put Fitz right behind Freddie... But based on the last 3 Games?...
marauderswr80 Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 Merriman in top ten? you gotta be kidding me! That statement alone tells you how bad our team is! Guy has barely seen the field last 2 years....his best game was in preseason....guys....wake the hell up!!!!!!!
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 you can not gut a team and have it totally restocked in two years. It is very hard to get veteran depth players to come and play for a team that is precieved to have to shot at winning . If anything it should be a little easier to recruit that type of player this offseason. Not so sure about your claim of "gutting the team". You realize that most of the key players on the list are actually hold-overs from the last regime, right? In fact, many of the key contributors now were the depth (read backups) that the previous regime developed and which have been pressed into front line service now. Fitz, Fred, Stevie, and George were all backups.
marauderswr80 Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 Its simple....team need....OLB, DE, BIG CORNERS, OL DEPTH, A BIG PHYSICAL WR
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 Good point...And based on the 1st 7 Games I think you've got to put Fitz right behind Freddie... But based on the last 3 Games?... The reason this team is out of the Suck for Luck Sweepstakes at this point is named Ryan Fitzpatrick. If he had broken his neck like and instead of Peyton Manning, the Bills, not the Colts, would very likely IMHO be in the driver's seat of that race. I'm not saying he's been playing like a franchise QB in the last 3 games, but if he were to go down with an injury, the Bills offense would be in even worse shape. Much worse shape. Thigpen has looked nothing better than awful.
XXL Franchize Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 in order of "impact" #1- fitz #2- freddy #3- kyle williams #4- wood #5- bell #6- dareus #7- lindell #8- levitre #9- stevie #10- chandler First list I agreed with. Although I probably wouldn't have lindell on there.
1B4IDie Posted November 24, 2011 Author Posted November 24, 2011 Not so sure about your claim of "gutting the team". You realize that most of the key players on the list are actually hold-overs from the last regime, right? In fact, many of the key contributors now were the depth (read backups) that the previous regime developed and which have been pressed into front line service now. Fitz, Fred, Stevie, and George were all backups. There are 8 players on the roster from before Buddy Nix joined the Bills. It's hard to argue its not a complete gutting of the roster.
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 There are 8 players on the roster from before Buddy Nix joined the Bills. It's hard to argue its not a complete gutting of the roster. Maybe I wasn't clear. Holdovers from the last regime are the "stars" on this team. So, while we are starting over in bold new directions the right way, the dominant contributions are coming from leftovers from Jauron. Ironic, no? The point wasn't really about the volume of turnover, it was about the quality. Any fool can do the former and stay on the treadmill to nowhere. Let's see, some fact checking: Fitz, Fred, Stevie, George, Wood, Levitre, Kelsay, Moorman, McGee, Parrish, Kyle Williams, Lindell, Bell, Byrd, Corner, Spencer Johnson, McIntyre, McKelvin, Sanborn. Did I miss anyone? These guys were all brought in under Jauron (some even earlier). So you must be saying Buddy Nix actually began gutting the team when he was National Scout Emeritus. A year before he became GM of Football. While that's clearly a bunk myth, I don't know if it really helps your case because Aaron Megabust Maybin was drafted that year, which wouldn't be good if Buddy was calling the shots.
1B4IDie Posted November 24, 2011 Author Posted November 24, 2011 Maybe I wasn't clear. Holdovers from the last regime are the "stars" on this team. So, while we are starting over in bold new directions the right way, the dominant contributions are coming from leftovers from Jauron. Ironic, no? The point wasn't really about the volume of turnover, it was about the quality. Any fool can do the former and stay on the treadmill to nowhere. Let's see, some fact checking: Fitz, Fred, Stevie, George, Wood, Levitre, Kelsay, Moorman, McGee, Parrish, Kyle Williams, Lindell, Bell, Byrd, Corner, Spencer Johnson, McIntyre, McKelvin, Sanborn. Did I miss anyone? These guys were all brought in under Jauron (some even earlier). So you must be saying Buddy Nix actually began gutting the team when he was National Scout Emeritus. A year before he became GM of Football. While that's clearly a bunk myth, I don't know if it really helps your case because Aaron Megabust Maybin was drafted that year, which wouldn't be good if Buddy was calling the shots. So let me get this straight Nix is incompetent for keeping the best players from the previous regime? Nix was responsible for the Maybin pick as much any other Bill executive if not more. What is your point?
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 So let me get this straight Nix is incompetent for keeping the best players from the previous regime? It's not that hard to understand. Nix gets credit for what actually happens under his watch. While some give him credit for the Bills drafts under Bill Polian and John Butler, the Chargers drafts, etc., I find such claims to be flights of fantasy. (It's like saying the guy driving the city bus is puppet master of the mayor of the city.) What has Nix actually brought in to Buffalo that is a clear improvement? That's not the same question as: what was already here that Chan has found a use for? Seriously. What has Nix brought in in your estimation? Dareus and Barnett were upgrades. Pears was an upgrade over his first attempt to address RT. Is Jones an upgrade over Evans? Spiller an upgrade to Lynch? You are correct that there has been a lot of bodies coming and going. Players played out their rookie contracts and left. So, you want to give Nix credit for "taking out the garbage". OK. Some players brought in have been improvements and others ... not so much. The guy that is responsible for stocking the roster -- all 53 -- is the GM, and it's not logical to credit a GM for "finding" talent that he inherited and did nothing to obtain. Nix was responsible for the Maybin pick as much any other Bill executive if not more. Are you saying Nix made the Maybin pick? What is your point? What is yours?
fansince88 Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 (edited) Its simple....team need....OLB, DE, BIG CORNERS, OL DEPTH, A BIG PHYSICAL WR X2 We are in the pain we are in because our team was only one player deep in most spots with good fillins. We need really really good players starting with really good players backing up. Not just people that can fill holes if need be. Thus Nix going to the IR early in the year to bring in more talent. It is a math issue. The seconds that we have don't match up. When a Jackson or a Wood step out a play or two the backup needs to be at or near the same level. IE, Greenbay Edited November 24, 2011 by fansince88
jcbillsfan Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Not so sure about your claim of "gutting the team". You realize that most of the key players on the list are actually hold-overs from the last regime, right? In fact, many of the key contributors now were the depth (read backups) that the previous regime developed and which have been pressed into front line service now. Fitz, Fred, Stevie, and George were all backups. They replaced 3/5th of the offensive line, almost all of the front 7 on d. All new wide recievers and tight ends . There were a few holdovers but most didn't play so either dickie j was stupid or the group coached these guys up and made them better . but all in all they replaced a lot of players in two short years , and the first year has a very small gree agent class X2 We are in the pain we are in because our team was only one player deep in most spots with good fillins. We need really really good players starting with really good players backing up. Not just people that can fill holes if need be. Thus Nix going to the IR early in the year to bring in more talent. It is a math issue. The seconds that we have don't match up. When a Jackson or a Wood step out a play or two the backup needs to be at or near the same level. IE, Greenbay
fansince88 Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 They replaced 3/5th of the offensive line, almost all of the front 7 on d. All new wide recievers and tight ends . There were a few holdovers but most didn't play so either dickie j was stupid or the group coached these guys up and made them better . but all in all they replaced a lot of players in two short years , and the first year has a very small gree agent class I think we are making the same point. Big changes but now they need the second stringers upgraded.
1B4IDie Posted November 25, 2011 Author Posted November 25, 2011 What is yours? My point is the roster was completely gutted since Nix has been in Buffalo which you yourself fact checked. Whatever rant about who is to blame/congratulate for the turnover is your own one sided argument with yourself. I could care less about assigning blame I just want to win.
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 My point is the roster was completely gutted since Nix has been in Buffalo which you yourself fact checked. Whatever rant about who is to blame/congratulate for the turnover is your own one sided argument with yourself. I could care less about assigning blame I just want to win. So you agree that 19 players (not 8) are left over from Jauron (and before) and that many of the better players on today's team are also hold overs. So, when you say the team has been "gutted" you are talking primarily about the second and third stringers (i.e. the depth) and a few other players that range from upgrades to downgrades in the starting lineup. This depth that was gutted and replaced is the same depth that Nix himself critiqued as being sub-par and really thin, and which now is being criticized on this board. You count the year Nix was just National Scout as not part of the previous regime even though they were still making the decisions, in order to fit the data to make an argument seem even stronger than it is. OK, glad we got that straight. And, yet you can't understand that I know the roster has had turnover, but I also know that the better players, those that were largely responsible for the team starting off 5-2, were the backups and hold overs from the Jauron era: Fitz, Fred, Stevie, etc. You apparently don't see that was the point of departure, when I said "I'm not sure about" the characterization of completely gutting the team because... Again: I'm not sure I'd claim the team was "completely gutted" when the team is still relying on players from the last regime in key positions in order to be competitive at all. When I hear "completely gutted", I'd expect (virtually) no starters at all from the previous regime. That is, there would be a new QB, new RB, new defensive leadership, etc. New playmakers on both sides of the ball. A whole new cast of players to cheer for. Yet, the Bills have Fitz, Fred, Stevie, and Kelsay as their leaders. (3 of those 4 were, in fact, depth on Jauron's team.) Yes, I know. I know. We're building through the draft and the far end of the scrap heap. It'll take years, etc. Of course, drafting a backup RB who rarely touches the ball at #9 overall doesn't speed things up much, but maybe we'll finally see what he can do this weekend. I'm also interested in winning. I'm far more interested in winning on the field than in crafting special-purpose timelines and arguments therefrom to defend the Buffalo Bills organization from perceived criticism. That is the point. If one looks around, she can find examples of teams that have gone out and turned it around rather quickly and got to winning ways. There is no magic formula and many ways to do it. But, it is ironic that the Bills have replaced all of their depth with Buddy Nix players and yet the first complaint off most keyboards in this recent tailspin is that the team has no depth. You can call it "assigning blame" but then that is a conclusion that you drew from the facts I presented. Happy Thanksgiving. Glad that we are in complete agreement.
opfball91 Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Not sure why they are paying him so much money. I hope it's not guaranteed. Way too much money for a backup. I'd say cut him after this season, and draft a project guy in the 3rd to sit behind Fitz for a few years. If Fitz works out then great, if the kid works out then great. If neither work out then cut em both and draft a QB in the first round like we SHOULD do to get a franchise guy.
DanInUticaTampa Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 So let me get this straight Nix is incompetent for keeping the best players from the previous regime? Nix was responsible for the Maybin pick as much any other Bill executive if not more. What is your point? keeping the best players is one of the few things nix has obviously done right. But bringing in more talent through the draft and FA has been below par, imo. I can probably think of 4 players that look well worth it what he brought in: dareus, barnett, harriston, and you can probably argue dwan edwards. There are a couple players like sheppard and a williams that show promise, but they aren't there yet. But you would think that there would be at least one decent starter from last years draft on the team by now. And the best from that lot is carrington and moats, both who just show flashes but arent exactly legit starters. 2 years later, nix's ability to handle the GM position is still questionable. I think the jury is still out, but it don't look good.
1B4IDie Posted November 26, 2011 Author Posted November 26, 2011 So you agree that 19 players (not 8) are left over from Jauron (and before) and that many of the better players on today's team are also hold overs. So, when you say the team has been "gutted" you are talking primarily about the second and third stringers (i.e. the depth) and a few other players that range from upgrades to downgrades in the starting lineup. This depth that was gutted and replaced is the same depth that Nix himself critiqued as being sub-par and really thin, and which now is being criticized on this board. You count the year Nix was just National Scout as not part of the previous regime even though they were still making the decisions, in order to fit the data to make an argument seem even stronger than it is. OK, glad we got that straight. And, yet you can't understand that I know the roster has had turnover, but I also know that the better players, those that were largely responsible for the team starting off 5-2, were the backups and hold overs from the Jauron era: Fitz, Fred, Stevie, etc. You apparently don't see that was the point of departure, when I said "I'm not sure about" the characterization of completely gutting the team because... Again: I'm not sure I'd claim the team was "completely gutted" when the team is still relying on players from the last regime in key positions in order to be competitive at all. When I hear "completely gutted", I'd expect (virtually) no starters at all from the previous regime. That is, there would be a new QB, new RB, new defensive leadership, etc. New playmakers on both sides of the ball. A whole new cast of players to cheer for. Yet, the Bills have Fitz, Fred, Stevie, and Kelsay as their leaders. (3 of those 4 were, in fact, depth on Jauron's team.) Yes, I know. I know. We're building through the draft and the far end of the scrap heap. It'll take years, etc. Of course, drafting a backup RB who rarely touches the ball at #9 overall doesn't speed things up much, but maybe we'll finally see what he can do this weekend. I'm also interested in winning. I'm far more interested in winning on the field than in crafting special-purpose timelines and arguments therefrom to defend the Buffalo Bills organization from perceived criticism. That is the point. If one looks around, she can find examples of teams that have gone out and turned it around rather quickly and got to winning ways. There is no magic formula and many ways to do it. But, it is ironic that the Bills have replaced all of their depth with Buddy Nix players and yet the first complaint off most keyboards in this recent tailspin is that the team has no depth. You can call it "assigning blame" but then that is a conclusion that you drew from the facts I presented. Happy Thanksgiving. Glad that we are in complete agreement. No one is protecting the Buffalo Bills organization but I'm glad you're on watch just in case soemone might have the urge. It is really simple by your own count. 35/53 players are new and yes a few starters were hold overs. You're making a less than compelling argument that the roster wasn't completely overhauled even though there are less than 20 players on the team.
PDaDdy Posted November 29, 2011 Posted November 29, 2011 I'd say cut him after this season, and draft a project guy in the 3rd to sit behind Fitz for a few years. If Fitz works out then great, if the kid works out then great. If neither work out then cut em both and draft a QB in the first round like we SHOULD do to get a franchise guy. Maybe we SHOULD get some offensive line players. They line single-handedly attempted to scuttle every drive in the first quarter it's amazing we were able to score at all.
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