It's all about the draft

[KD in CA]

We have devoted the last two drafts to defense. Name the one very good defensive player we have taken?

And don't give me Dareus. He has not yet justified his draft position. I know Buddy revamped our scouting dep't this offseason. He gets one more year to start drafting better.

That is just about as stupid as a statement can get. A guy who is half way through his rookie season and is on the field almost every play trying to anchor a horrible defense has not "justified his draft position"??

 

 

 

I could not agree more. Spiller was a terrible choice, not because he can't play (that was the Maybin pick), but because he doesn't fit a role this team needed. The old "best player available" vs. "draft for need" wages on. The problem is that Spiller was neither the "best player available" nor "needed". Terrible, terrible choice. This is a disturbing pattern. I still cringe in the fact that we could have had Nick mangold, but we took John McCargo. Geesh

Spot on Mike. Once again, the Bills brain trust acted like dumb fans and fell in love with highlight reels instead of making an intelligent evaluation of a player's capabilities at the NFL level. And they ignored numerous glaring needs.

[Bill from NYC]

I could not agree more. Spiller was a terrible choice, not because he can't play (that was the Maybin pick), but because he doesn't fit a role this team needed. The old "best player available" vs. "draft for need" wages on. The problem is that Spiller was neither the "best player available" nor "needed". Terrible, terrible choice. This is a disturbing pattern. I still cringe in the fact that we could have had Nick mangold, but we took John McCargo. Geesh

 

The 2006 draft was as bad as I have ever seen, but what would one expect from Levy/Jauron? They also spurned a probable hall of fame Ngata for Donte Whitner. And in the process of doing all of this, it cost them an early 3rd round pick to trade up.

 

The Spiller pick would have been awful even if he was good, and he is not. I'll say it.....he sucks. There ya go. To add salt to the wound, Gronkowski, a kid who grew up In Williamsville, was picked 1 freaking spot after Torrell Troup. He looks like Dave Casper with speed, and nobody could identify local talent such as this? And we desperately needed a tight end!!!

 

The 2012 draft reminds me a bit of 2006. We need pass rushers and OTs. There seems to be a lot of them out there. Now, do we go after a defensive back, a ticket seller (Spiller), or a player who can step right in and make this a better football team?

 

History is not on our side, but there is always hope to cling to.

[KOKBILLS]

 

To add salt to the wound, Gronkowski, a kid who grew up In Williamsville, was picked 1 freaking spot after Torrell Troup. He looks like Dave Casper with speed, and nobody could identify local talent such as this? And we desperately needed a tight end!!!

 

That's the crushing part about the Gronkowski miss...The Bills needed a TE in the worst way...And here is this Kid from WNY who is beyond talented at a HUGE Need Position...I'm not saying the Bills did not need a NT...But Troup was a head-scratcher from the get-go...Even Draft pundits who liked Troup though he was a 3rd Round Pick at best...And here we go again...Smarter and more smug than anyone, The Buffalo Bills reach and miss a guy that, if he keeps this up, is on his way to a HOF Career at a Position where we have not had a significant player since Pete Metzelaars...And that was a LONG, long time ago Folks...And that Pick came AFTER we chose a water-bug RB when we already had Jackson and Lynch on the roster and DESPERATELY needed O-Line help...Starting O-Linemen like Anthony Davis, Mike Iupati, and Brian Bulaga were all available...No they would not have been glamour Picks...But they all start for Teams with a combined 1 loss right now...I think maybe they could have made an impact more than CJ "I'm still looking to break my 1st NFL tackle" Spiller...OK, I do know he has broke at least one...But you get my drift...

 

Nix is smarter than everyone I guess...

[CBD]

Jeez Dez and Gronk, that hurts. I never understood the passing on Gronk especially since he was a local boy rated no.1 at his position.

Tough argument to make now, but back injury that forced him out of the entire season prior to the draft & rumors of nerve damage scared alot of teams away. Also, Gresham was the #1 rated TE pretty much everywhere that year.

Edited November 22, 2011 by Carey Bender

[DDD]

VALID POINT YES BUT WE CAN STILL GET SOME THING OUT OF 2 OF OUR PLAYERS . MCKELVIN WE SHOULD USE AS A KICK RETURNER & CJ WE JUST NEED TO USE HIM SO HE CAN GET UP TO NFL SPEED . HE WILL NEVER BE OR LEARN ANY THING BY SITTING ON THE BENCH !!!!

 

After seeing CJ Spiller get blown up by a cornerback at the goal line, CJ NEEDS to be SITTING on the bench.

[DrDawkinstein]

That's the crushing part about the Gronkowski miss...The Bills needed a TE in the worst way...And here is this Kid from WNY who is beyond talented at a HUGE Need Position...I'm not saying the Bills did not need a NT...But Troup was a head-scratcher from the get-go...Even Draft pundits who liked Troup though he was a 3rd Round Pick at best...And here we go again...Smarter and more smug than anyone, The Buffalo Bills reach and miss a guy that, if he keeps this up, is on his way to a HOF Career at a Position where we have not had a significant player since Pete Metzelaars...And that was a LONG, long time ago Folks...And that Pick came AFTER we chose a water-bug RB when we already had Jackson and Lynch on the roster and DESPERATELY needed O-Line help...Starting O-Linemen like Anthony Davis, Mike Iupati, and Brian Bulaga were all available...No they would not have been glamour Picks...But they all start for Teams with a combined 1 loss right now...I think maybe they could have made an impact more than CJ "I'm still looking to break my 1st NFL tackle" Spiller...OK, I do know he has broke at least one...But you get my drift...

 

Nix is smarter than everyone I guess...

 

 

as Skip Bayless just pointed out on First Take, Gronkowski fell because he had just undergone spinal fusion surgery to treat his Spinal Stenosis. He missed the entire 2009 season for that. It's the same condition that ended Michael Irvin's and countless other careers. He's one wrong hit away from being paralyzed. It wasnt like Gronk was a no-risk. Hindsight is 20/20...

 

Take any mediocre NFL team, a team likely to have a top ten or thereabouts draft pick. Then I tell you that team has to forfeit their first round pick for the next 3 years. The chances of that team consistently competing for a playoff spot is virtually nil.

 

And that's the Buffalo Bills. McKelvin (benched), Maybin (cut) and Spiller (limbo) are just about the equivalent of three forfeited high draft picks. Cannot compete with those kind of drafts.

 

The defense in particular could be good but lacks just two players - a pass rusher (maybin) and a shut down corner (McKelvin)

 

And that's how important the draft is for an NFL team.

 

As far as this OP goes, I cant disagree. Especially with your last point. We had the position of need filled, but with the wrong guy. Hopefully that changes as Buddy/Whaley's plan continues to play out.

Edited November 22, 2011 by DrDareustein

[Mr. WEO]

I guess you are a billionaire because you knew what all the lotto numbers were going to be.

 

Freddy is an unreal RB. Let me say that again. Unreal.

 

The 95% probability expectation would be that an ageing, small college RB would be running out of steam in 2011 and need a replacement to keep the Bills going. That Freddy has been unreal and is still healthy and looking like an all-pro is not what the best guess from 2-3 years ago would have happening now.

 

The RB gets the ball on a third to a half of the plays. It is a position to keep superior players in place at. I have no problem with Freddy still performing.

Lynch was the number one RB when they drafted Spiller. He was superior to Spiller.

 

Exchange Spiller and Troup for Dez Bryant and Gronkowski that's how important the draft is.

 

ouch.

[KOKBILLS]

as Skip Bayless just pointed out on First Take, Gronkowski fell because he had just undergone spinal fusion surgery to treat his Spinal Stenosis. He missed the entire 2009 season for that. It's the same condition that ended Michael Irvin's and countless other careers. He's one wrong hit away from being paralyzed. It wasnt like Gronk was a no-risk. Hindsight is 20/20...

 

 

 

As far as this OP goes, I cant disagree. Especially with your last point. We had the position of need filled, but with the wrong guy. Hopefully that changes as Buddy/Whaley's plan continues to play out.

 

Skip Bayless huh?

 

For the record Gronkowsi and his Agent have aggressively denied any such thing...Rosenhaus said this before the Draft..."Every team I have talked to says there are no concerns about his back,”

Rosenhaus told Jamison Hensley of the Baltimore Sun. “He passed his physical at the combine. There are no red flags on him. He is ready to go. The back is not a

factor. There’s no issue."

 

Every Team knew about Gronkowski's condition...As did I...If he was one hit away from being paralyzed there's no way he would be in the NFL...period...He had Back Surgery...That's ALWAYS serious, but he was quite obviously cleared, and he's quite obviously capable of taking an NFL pounding...

 

And as far as hindsight is concerned, good or bad, it's how every NFL GM is judged, every time, ever...

 

Hopefully that changes as Buddy/Whaley's plan continues to play out.

 

I'd sure as heck like to know what that plan is...I'm sure there's another TD machine water-bug HB coming out they can take to replace Spiller...

[DrDawkinstein]

Skip Bayless huh?

 

For the record Gronkowsi and his Agent have aggressively denied any such thing...Rosenhaus said this before the Draft..."Every team I have talked to says there are no concerns about his back,”

Rosenhaus told Jamison Hensley of the Baltimore Sun. “He passed his physical at the combine. There are no red flags on him. He is ready to go. The back is not a

factor. There’s no issue."

 

Every Team knew about Gronkowski's condition...As did I...If he was one hit away from being paralyzed there's no way he would be in the NFL...period...He had Back Surgery...That's ALWAYS serious, but he was quite obviously cleared, and he's quite obviously capable of taking an NFL pounding...

 

And as far as hindsight is concerned, good or bad, it's how every NFL GM is judged, every time, ever...

 

 

Drew Rosenhaus huh?

 

Id take Skip's report over anything Rosenhaus says. And Skip likes Gronk, he was merely pointing out why Gronk landing on his neck last night made him cringe.

[KOKBILLS]

Drew Rosenhaus huh?

 

Id take Skip's report over anything Rosenhaus says. And Skip likes Gronk, he was merely pointing out why Gronk landing on his neck last night made him cringe.

 

Well I personally can't stand either one...But Rosenhaus' statement can easily be refuted if incorrect...It's a serious claim...I doubt it's something Rosenhaus is going to lie about...

[CBD]

Every Team knew about Gronkowski's condition...As did I...If he was one hit away from being paralyzed there's no way he would be in the NFL...period...He had Back Surgery...That's ALWAYS serious, but he was quite obviously cleared, and he's quite obviously capable of taking an NFL pounding...

I'm not sure regarding "one hit from paralysis" but he failed to play at all in the 2009 season, so he was being drafted based on his season a full year prior. He was also not cleared for any type of activities until January before the draft due to the surgery. And just because he has been cleared does not mean he is unlikely to suffer the injury again. Also his agents word, especially Rosenhaus, means squat.

 

With the benefit of hindsight I agree, but with that benefit alot of things would change. Drafting a player with a serious back issue is a major risk, something the Patriots could afford & something I would not have been happy about had the Bills taken him.

Edited November 22, 2011 by Carey Bender

[BillsfaninFl]

Three years??? It has been more than a decade of failures spanning multiple GM's. The only constant is RW and Modrak. RW has failed in every way to attract and retain high quality GM's. It is not just the NFL. Any business that can't do that will fail. The Bills succeed only because of shared TV revenue and a fan base that has nothing else.

 

True. And there is really nothing the fans can do about it. Failing to support the team financially only hastens their departure. Continuing to support the team (as the Cleveland fans did) doesn't accomplish anything.

 

When there was an impass between the Cleveland football team and local politicians over building a new stadium, the team moved to Baltimore, which had lost its team to Indianapolis. The outcome in Buffalo will be a little different because Wilson will not spend the money to move the team, but the odds are that whomever buys the Bills will take them to some other city. We fans can only hope for a semi-miracle: local ownership who wants the team in Buffalo.

[KOKBILLS]

Drafting a player with a serious back issue is a major risk, something the Patriots could afford & something I would not have been happy about had the Bills taken him.

 

Fair enough...but would you be happy now if they took him?...Cause right or wrong, hindsight or not, that's how it works in the NFL...

 

To be perfectly honest I think if you take Gronkowski out of the equation you still have to ask why Troup over Terrence Cody?...And sure I know about all the Cody questions coming out...But...Here the Bills are and anyone who knows anything about Football knows The Bills did not want to play Kyle Williams at NT in a 3-4...Could he play there? Sure, he's an excellent Football Player...Did they want him there long term? No way...That's why Troup was Drafted where he was...But Cody was SO clearly the better College Player vs. FAR better competition...Despite his weight issues he did not get his nickname, "Mt. Cody," for nothing...Sometimes GM's like Nix, who likes to come across like a country bumpkin but realistically thinks he's smarter than anyone else, over-think things and burn themselves...Then there are Football guys like Wade Phillips who just knew Ted Washington, despite an injury plagued and disappointing first few years of his career, would make the perfect Nose Tackle for his 3-4 Defense after seeing him one year in Denver...I wanted the Bills to Draft Cody...But I'm basically just a Fan...My feeling is it's a risk regardless, why not take the guy with the biggest upside?...Some Players react totally differently when they actually grow up and it's their Job, their livelihood...Now Cody is about 340...Seems like he grew up in a short time...And I know some will say Cody went to the situation that was picture-perfect made for him...And that's true...But does it not bother the living crap out of some of you that The Bills are never considered the picture-perfect place for anyone outside of Undrafted FA's and 7th round Picks?

 

Anyway...

[Fan in San Diego]

Exchange Spiller and Troup for Dez Bryant and Gronkowski that's how important the draft is.

 

Exchange Maybin for Arakpo

 

and who did we pick instead of Ngata?

[Bill from NYC]

Fair enough...but would you be happy now if they took him?...Cause right or wrong, hindsight or not, that's how it works in the NFL...

 

To be perfectly honest I think if you take Gronkowski out of the equation you still have to ask why Troup over Terrence Cody?...And sure I know about all the Cody questions coming out...But...Here the Bills are and anyone who knows anything about Football knows The Bills did not want to play Kyle Williams at NT in a 3-4...Could he play there? Sure, he's an excellent Football Player...Did they want him there long term? No way...That's why Troup was Drafted where he was...But Cody was SO clearly the better College Player vs. FAR better competition...Despite his weight issues he did not get his nickname, "Mt. Cody," for nothing...Sometimes GM's like Nix, who likes to come across like a country bumpkin but realistically thinks he's smarter than anyone else, over-think things and burn themselves...Then there are Football guys like Wade Phillips who just knew Ted Washington, despite an injury plagued and disappointing first few years of his career, would make the perfect Nose Tackle for his 3-4 Defense after seeing him one year in Denver...I wanted the Bills to Draft Cody...But I'm basically just a Fan...My feeling is it's a risk regardless, why not take the guy with the biggest upside?...Some Players react totally differently when they actually grow up and it's their Job, their livelihood...Now Cody is about 340...Seems like he grew up in a short time...And I know some will say Cody went to the situation that was picture-perfect made for him...And that's true...But does it not bother the living crap out of some of you that The Bills are never considered the picture-perfect place for anyone outside of Undrafted FA's and 7th round Picks?

 

Anyway...

 

Yet another great post from KOK!

 

The bolded part is what is so amazing. I have been on this board for more than a decade, and have watched many posters come up with better drafts than our paid professionals. Badolbilz (Dick Drawn) and R.Rich stand out, and Astrobot and others do research that is better than that of our front office. Did Marv Levy once say that he wouldn't have drafted Patrick Willis under any conditions (or something like this)? Could one make this up?

 

This draft would appear to be a snap, especially with our record sinking like rock in a pond. As bad as we are, I still think that a solid draft, OK, maybe a great draft, would push us right back into respectability. I am in my fifties, and would rather not wait to see what a small, frail D. Bell can do at LT. I am tired of watching Kelsay and OMG S. Johnson at OLB.

 

All we can do is hope that or management is able to see what is killing this team and causing ulcers to it's fanbase.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KOKBILLS]

Yet another great post from KOK!

 

The bolded part is what is so amazing. I have been on this board for more than a decade, and have watched many posters come up with better drafts than our paid professionals. Badolbilz (Dick Drawn) and R.Rich stand out, and Astrobot and others do research that is better than that of our front office. Did Marv Levy once say that he wouldn't have drafted Patrick Willis under any conditions (or something like this)? Could one make this up?

 

This draft would appear to be a snap, especially with our record sinking like rock in a pond. As bad as we are, I still think that a solid draft, OK, maybe a great draft, would push us right back into respectability. I am in my fifties, and would rather not wait to see what a small, frail D. Bell can do at LT. I am tired of watching Kelsay and OMG S. Johnson at OLB.

 

All we can do is hope that or management is able to see what is killing this team and causing ulcers to it's fanbase.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Thanks Bill!

 

Some of the old-timers around here may remember when I did my own Draft Reports and stuff before I got old and bitter...lol...But I love the NFL Draft!!!I also really appreciate what Astro and Rich do here all year...And I almost always agree with Badol...I certainly understand how difficult it is for Teams to do well in the Draft...That being said it's all but impossible, even if you're trying to do poorly, to reach the level of ineptitude the Bills have Drafting over the past decade or so...

 

On Draft Day I like to Pick as if I'm The Bills GM...Then I can look back over the years and see how good, or terrible a Drafting GM I would be...In 2010 I took Bulaga in the 1st and Cody in the 2nd...I was definitely afraid of Dez Bryant...But that just shows you never know 100% when it comes to the off-the-field stuff...In 2009 I had Orakpo in the 1st (I REALLY liked Robert Ayers too but I could not bring myself to take him at #11)...I should also note that mostly due to what Mike Mayock said I would never have taken Maybin before the 2nd Round, and certainly not at #11...To me that Pick was Orakpo, Ayers, or Brian Cushing...I liked Matthews but I was worried about his "late bloomer" status and felt like he went right where he should have....I LOVED the Wood Pick...Anyway...

 

Going back a bit I can say with pride that I was screaming at the TV when the Bills took Whitner...I wanted Ngata so bad, and I was SO convinced they were going to take him I went from chanting "Ngata! Ngata! Ngata!!!" to literally shouting "NOOOOOO!!!!!!" In 2008 I took Branden Albert at #11...And just to show I can suck at times too, I LOVED the Hardy Pick and was hoping the Bills would Draft him midway through the 2007 College Season...I was really thrilled when we got him in the 2nd...So...

 

This past Draft I would have taken Dareus obviously...I was shocked the few days leading up to the Draft when it came out Denver was leaning towards Miller...I took Brooks Reed in the 2nd...I was bound and determined not to take a CB early...lol...But then in the 3rd I took Mallett...I was SO pissed The Bills did not Draft Ryan Mallett...Especially when they could have had him for a 3rd round Pick...I was really high on Mallett since he came to Michigan, my favorite College Team, as a Freshman...I know the Jury is still way, way, out on Mallett...But for a 3rd Round Pick I'm taking that gamble 100% of the time...

 

So sure some of The Bills Fans around here could have done as well, or better than, the Folks actually being paid to do it...I think that's actually more due to how poorly The Bills have Drafted over these past few years...Because I'm definitely no Draft Guru...Regardless, I'm no where near convinced Nix is ready to break that terrible trend...Not yet anyway...We'll see this time next year...

[spartacus]

I'm not sure regarding "one hit from paralysis" but he failed to play at all in the 2009 season, so he was being drafted based on his season a full year prior. He was also not cleared for any type of activities until January before the draft due to the surgery. And just because he has been cleared does not mean he is unlikely to suffer the injury again. Also his agents word, especially Rosenhaus, means squat.

 

With the benefit of hindsight I agree, but with that benefit alot of things would change. Drafting a player with a serious back issue is a major risk, something the Patriots could afford & something I would not have been happy about had the Bills taken him.

 

if Gronkowski was too risky for you in the 2nd, Hernandez should have been a no brainer in the 4th

 

 

Bellicek actually has a relationship with college coaches so he can get the inside scoop on players.

 

Buddy looks at outdated Kiper mags from his home in Tennessee,

 

 

[st. pete gogolak]

2010 was, in hindsight, the Golden Year for finding a tight end. We passed on Gronkowski for Troup in the second, Jimmy Graham for Carrington in the third, Hernandez for Easley in the fourth. You would have thought that we would have been scouting tight ends, given that it was a black hole for us and has been for 20 years. I find it humorous that Belicheck wasn't worried about the Bills taking the home town kid and didn't feel the need to waste a draft pick to jump ahead of us to take Gronkowski.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Thanks Bill!

 

Some of the old-timers around here may remember when I did my own Draft Reports and stuff before I got old and bitter...lol...But I love the NFL Draft!!!I also really appreciate what Astro and Rich do here all year...And I almost always agree with Badol...I certainly understand how difficult it is for Teams to do well in the Draft...That being said it's all but impossible, even if you're trying to do poorly, to reach the level of ineptitude the Bills have Drafting over the past decade or so...

 

On Draft Day I like to Pick as if I'm The Bills GM...Then I can look back over the years and see how good, or terrible a Drafting GM I would be...In 2010 I took Bulaga in the 1st and Cody in the 2nd...I was definitely afraid of Dez Bryant...But that just shows you never know 100% when it comes to the off-the-field stuff...In 2009 I had Orakpo in the 1st (I REALLY liked Robert Ayers too but I could not bring myself to take him at #11)...I should also note that mostly due to what Mike Mayock said I would never have taken Maybin before the 2nd Round, and certainly not at #11...To me that Pick was Orakpo, Ayers, or Brian Cushing...I liked Matthews but I was worried about his "late bloomer" status and felt like he went right where he should have....I LOVED the Wood Pick...Anyway...

 

Going back a bit I can say with pride that I was screaming at the TV when the Bills took Whitner...I wanted Ngata so bad, and I was SO convinced they were going to take him I went from chanting "Ngata! Ngata! Ngata!!!" to literally shouting "NOOOOOO!!!!!!" In 2008 I took Branden Albert at #11...And just to show I can suck at times too, I LOVED the Hardy Pick and was hoping the Bills would Draft him midway through the 2007 College Season...I was really thrilled when we got him in the 2nd...So...

 

This past Draft I would have taken Dareus obviously...I was shocked the few days leading up to the Draft when it came out Denver was leaning towards Miller...I took Brooks Reed in the 2nd...I was bound and determined not to take a CB early...lol...But then in the 3rd I took Mallett...I was SO pissed The Bills did not Draft Ryan Mallett...Especially when they could have had him for a 3rd round Pick...I was really high on Mallett since he came to Michigan, my favorite College Team, as a Freshman...I know the Jury is still way, way, out on Mallett...But for a 3rd Round Pick I'm taking that gamble 100% of the time...

 

So sure some of The Bills Fans around here could have done as well, or better than, the Folks actually being paid to do it...I think that's actually more due to how poorly The Bills have Drafted over these past few years...Because I'm definitely no Draft Guru...Regardless, I'm no where near convinced Nix is ready to break that terrible trend...Not yet anyway...We'll see this time next year...

I remember.

 

The only ray of hope on this front is that they finally got rid of Tom "He works hard putting those magnets up there" Modrak. One could be a little hard pressed to convince a jury that his efforts at draft boards were not active sabotage. Look at the record: Williams, McGahee, Evans, Losman, Whitner, McCargo, Lynch, McKelvin, Maybin, Wood, and Spiller. (I'm not going to put Dareus on the list because it seems that Modrak was left out in the cold in the last draft, only a few hours from his termination coming down.) Several notorious busts, several middling journeyman, and maybe one guy, if he can stay healthy, that could be better than a JAG. Maybe. But, he did draft Donovan McNabb back in the days when they looked at drawings on cave walls instead of college film...

[Orton's Arm]

I remember.

 

The only ray of hope on this front is that they finally got rid of Tom "He works hard putting those magnets up there" Modrak. One could be a little hard pressed to convince a jury that his efforts at draft boards were not active sabotage. Look at the record: Williams, McGahee, Evans, Losman, Whitner, McCargo, Lynch, McKelvin, Maybin, Wood, and Spiller. (I'm not going to put Dareus on the list because it seems that Modrak was left out in the cold in the last draft, only a few hours from his termination coming down.) Several notorious busts, several middling journeyman, and maybe one guy, if he can stay healthy, that could be better than a JAG. Maybe. But, he did draft Donovan McNabb back in the days when they looked at drawings on cave walls instead of college film...

Other than Donovan McNabb, Modrak had no success stories at all in his drafts with the Eagles.

 

McNabb was a good player--or at least he became a good player after his first several years in the league. But was he really good enough to justify Modrak's decision not to take the trade Mike Ditka had offered? (That was the Ricky Williams year.) I don't claim to have a firm answer to that question, but I figured I'd throw it out there for discussion.