Hangartner and Evans

[Koufax]

These last two weeks have made it obvious that all these 'trust me, we know football' decisions since the beginning have caught up with the team. Here are decisions which were justified for one reason or the other at the time and are now looking to be a series of miscues:

- Hiring George Edwards: At the time of the hire, there was no indication of why he would have been good

- Picking Spiller with the #9 pick: Was supposed to be a playmaker. ANd yet in 1.5 seasons has done no more than we expect out of a 5th or 6th rounder. BPA he was not

- Letting Poz, Whitner go: Not saying these were great but created holes where we did not have to. I can excuse Poz as we replaced with a better LB in Barnett. However, we seem to just create holes and patch up instead of re-building

- Trading Evans: I reconciled at the time saying he wasnt getting open and we wouldnt be able to use him as we dont have the OL to sustain blocks. However, seeing Stevies' underwhelming numbers this year, it is becoming obvious that Evans' presence was helping Stevie (and the Bills) a lot. The fact that he is injured now does not excuse the decision to let him go as it was not known he would get injured at that time

- Letting Hang go: Sure he looked 'weak' but he would be a good swing backup as G and C.

 

Nix has blown smoke for a while now. 'Build through the draft and keep your own' ? Really ?

 

I'm with you on George Edwards. Two seasons of being pretty terrible and performing worse than the talent on the field

 

I am still thinking that Spiller at #9 was the right choice (not the revisionist history choice, because there are other players I would want, and Tom Brady would be a first rounder). I don't see anybody in the 10-20 range that I say "That is the guy we should have known to pick on draft day". Referring to the Ngata over Whitner and Orakpo over Maybin. I think Bulaga was by reasonable estimations less talented at what he did, and Spiller was the most talented guy out there with the hope of getting a CJ2K type player. Also remember we had Freddie and Lynch splitting time, and neither looking like the answer that Freddie is proving to be this season.

 

Not sure on Poz or Whitner. I'm pretty happy with Barnett and Wilson (and Sheppard), and I think Poz got too many dollars, but I always liked him, and wouldn't mind him on our roster if it weren't a financial decision.

 

I don't agree on Evans. I definitely liked him, but he is not an impact guy, over the next few years a 4th rounder and that cash will be worth more.

 

I don't agree on Hang. If it weren't a financial decision, maybe, but talent wise I thought he was pretty weak. You need to have a #2 center on the roster, but I don't think Hang was the right fit for that.

 

We need to keep doing whatever we can to improving the talent at all 53 places, and get our D coached a lot better.

[Fan in Chicago]

 

We need to keep doing whatever we can to improving the talent at all 53 places, and get our D coached a lot better.

 

Ofcourse I agree with you. But my point is that proactively getting rid of players without knowing that their replacements are better, is stupid. At the time they traded Evans, cut Hang etc , what evidence was there that their replacements were better (even for Hang at the backup center/guard position). As an example - I could see the logic of trading Lynch - he was a time bomb with his off-field transgessions and FJax was doing well. Trent failed terribly and there was enough evidence on Fitz to say that he would be the better choice going forward.

[deep2evans]

even dareus is questionable considering how ****ty our WRs and CBs are. Pat Peterson or AJ Green would look good right about now. Dareus is no where near as effective at end - so what do we do next year when Williams is healthy?

 

Nix has struck out on nearly every move so far.

 

Evans was done already. Less than a 1000 yards in his previous two seasons COMBINED. He has gone on to do even less.

 

YES, we need a better #1 WR - like a Lee Evans IN HIS PRIME maybe, not the real Lee Evans of 2011.

 

Getting a 4th for him was a steal - you have to be trying really hard to hate on Nix to convince yourself of anything else.

 

lol good god, do you actually believe what you're writing?

 

have you seen how ineffective stevie has been this year? there's a reason for that. almost every other WR on our roster should'nt be in the NFL.

[PromoTheRobot]

Oh if only! Evans and Hang were our saviors. It's not like Evans gets injured. And Hang was freakin' awesome as a Bill. So awesome people couldn't wait to replace him with Wood. Short memories around here.

 

PTR

[Dopey]

Yesterday we got embarrassed on offense because we have no backup center and no receivers getting open. We have a great RB, TE, FB and a decent QB. Hangartner would've stepped in an done a fine job with the QB he's snapped to a thousand times. Levitre would've played guard where he belongs and you would have seen a different game.

 

So we let Evans go for the same amount of money we signed Brad Smith for (about $7 mil for the next two years). If you could switch the two right now, would you? I know I would, I know Fitz would too. All you Evans detractors that say he was washed up can babble all you want, the guy got open and had great hands.

 

Speaking of Brad Smith, if you think you're disappointed in his production now, wait until he fumbles a kickoff return which I guarantee he will if he continues to swing the ball around when he runs like that. I am benching Smith and Spiller immediately and putting Mckelvin back there to return kicks. CJ for punts.

 

I'm not going to say Ralph is cheap because I honestly don't think he's with it enough to care anymore, but depth isn't just about draft picks and free agency pickups, it's about keeping your veterans who shine when you need leadership and experience. You can't play a full season without key injuries, and if your only plan is hope nobody gets hurt, you're bound to end up where we are right now-- lost.

 

Does anybody think the 4th round pick we got for Evans is going to help us? How many 4th round picks do we have out there now helping us?

 

I'm not usually a negative poster but I can't sit here and listen to our management say depth is a problem and then watch them funnel our experienced guys out the back door to save money. Depth is a problem because of your shortsightedness and failure to value the continuity and contributions of our veteran players.

 

You made this bed Nix.

I watched the Balt. game and I'm glad Lee is gone. He was thrown to once that I saw. Guess what?He ran straight upfield(not really any cuts or semblence of a route) and didin't fight for position or the ball. He wouldn't help us right now.Glad he's gone. Hangman is a different story, but if we all could live off of hindsight any of us could do that job.

[deep2evans]

Oh if only! Evans and Hang were our saviors. It's not like Evans gets injured. And Hang was freakin' awesome as a Bill. So awesome people couldn't wait to replace him with Wood. Short memories around here.

 

PTR

 

what? it's called depth. the front office is complaining about lack of depth, but fail to realize it's because they shipped it all out the door for nothing. it's ridiculous.

[PromoTheRobot]

what? it's called depth. the front office is complaining about lack of depth, but fail to realize it's because they shipped it all out the door for nothing. it's ridiculous.

You assume Evans would not be injured as a Bill. He went down after one game with the Ravens. Why would that not happen with the Bills. If anything Nix got some value for garbage.

 

PTR

Edited November 21, 2011 by PromoTheRobot

[CosmicBills]

 

I am still thinking that Spiller at #9 was the right choice (not the revisionist history choice, because there are other players I would want, and Tom Brady would be a first rounder). I don't see anybody in the 10-20 range that I say "That is the guy we should have known to pick on draft day". Referring to the Ngata over Whitner and Orakpo over Maybin. I think Bulaga was by reasonable estimations less talented at what he did, and Spiller was the most talented guy out there with the hope of getting a CJ2K type player. Also remember we had Freddie and Lynch splitting time, and neither looking like the answer that Freddie is proving to be this season.

 

You said you weren't going to use revisionist history ... Saying neither Jackson or Lynch hadn't done anything to look like the answer before the Spiller pick is revisionist history. They both had already shown a ton (some of course expected more or disliked them personally) ... There is never a reason to take a RB in the top ten in today's NFL. Certainly not when you already have two 1000k yard rushers on the roster.

 

It's an old school mentality. And it's flat out wrong.

[deep2evans]

You assume Evans would not be injured as a Bill. He went down after one game with the Ravens. Why would that not happen with the Bills. If anything Nix got some value for garbage.

 

PTR

 

since when is evans garbage? that's revisionist history at its finest.

[PromoTheRobot]

since when is evans garbage? that's revisionist history at its finest.

As is the belief Evans would not still be injured as a Bill. So he'd be an inactive like everyone else and we'd still be in the same boat.

 

PTR

Edited November 21, 2011 by PromoTheRobot

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Yesterday we got embarrassed on offense because we have no backup center and no receivers getting open. We have a great RB, TE, FB and a decent QB. Hangartner would've stepped in an done a fine job with the QB he's snapped to a thousand times. Levitre would've played guard where he belongs and you would have seen a different game.

 

So we let Evans go for the same amount of money we signed Brad Smith for (about $7 mil for the next two years). If you could switch the two right now, would you? I know I would, I know Fitz would too. All you Evans detractors that say he was washed up can babble all you want, the guy got open and had great hands.

 

Speaking of Brad Smith, if you think you're disappointed in his production now, wait until he fumbles a kickoff return which I guarantee he will if he continues to swing the ball around when he runs like that. I am benching Smith and Spiller immediately and putting Mckelvin back there to return kicks. CJ for punts.

 

I'm not going to say Ralph is cheap because I honestly don't think he's with it enough to care anymore, but depth isn't just about draft picks and free agency pickups, it's about keeping your veterans who shine when you need leadership and experience. You can't play a full season without key injuries, and if your only plan is hope nobody gets hurt, you're bound to end up where we are right now-- lost.

 

Does anybody think the 4th round pick we got for Evans is going to help us? How many 4th round picks do we have out there now helping us?

 

I'm not usually a negative poster but I can't sit here and listen to our management say depth is a problem and then watch them funnel our experienced guys out the back door to save money. Depth is a problem because of your shortsightedness and failure to value the continuity and contributions of our veteran players.

 

You made this bed Nix.

Evans has done nothing as usual but Hangartner should have been kept.

[Fan in Chicago]

As is the belief Evans would not still be injured as a Bill. So he'd be an inactive like everyone else and we'd still be in the same boat.

 

PTR

By the same token, we should have traded away Roscoe Parrish, McGee, Merriman and Bell. Correct ? Do you even see the flaw of your logic ? Using Evans injury after two games with the Ravens as proof that it was a good move for the Bills is stupid.

[PromoTheRobot]

By the same token, we should have traded away Roscoe Parrish, McGee, Merriman and Bell. Correct ? Do you even see the flaw of your logic ? Using Evans injury after two games with the Ravens as proof that it was a good move for the Bills is stupid.

What is illogical is wishing we still had players who did not make us any better.

 

PTR

[RuntheDamnBall]

As is the belief Evans would not still be injured as a Bill. So he'd be an inactive like everyone else and we'd still be in the same boat.

 

PTR

Unless you're going to suggest some cunning on the part of the front-office (i.e. they knew an injury was waiting to happen), this is just pure BS.

 

Sorry, man, if you saw that sh--show yesterday and think Evans wouldn't have been a more valuable contributor than Ruvell Martin or Brad Smith, please gimme some of what you're smoking. And no one thinks Hangman is better than Wood, we just think he would have been better as a backup C than moving our elite starting LG to OC where he cannot snap to save his life. These were stupid missteps that at best give us hope of paying our own players with some of that money next season.

[Peter]

FWIW - I have no problem with trading Evans (would have preferred a higher pick, but oh well). On the other hand, cutting Hangartner seemed gratuitous at the time. They took a gamble and it did not work out (not that Hangartner was any great shakes). Nevertheless, I am not going to be overly critical of Buddy for this.

[dpberr]

I'd go sign Hank Fraley today and bring in Gilyard, Gage, Randle El and Clowney for a look-see.

[T master]

What about Sanborn ? I know he is our long snapper but still that's what the guy does i mean it's not rocket science !!

[K-9]

FWIW - I have no problem with trading Evans (would have preferred a higher pick, but oh well). On the other hand, cutting Hangartner seemed gratuitous at the time. They took a gamble and it did not work out (not that Hangartner was any great shakes). Nevertheless, I am not going to be overly critical of Buddy for this.

 

I fully understand why they cut Hangartner. He didn't justify his salary at all. He was getting man-handled in practices and preseason games. They had two other OLmen who could shift to the position if Wood got hurt. Yes, it means shuffling the OL but that's common throughout the league. I also don't think for a moment that Levitre snapped that poorly in practice. He didn't in his limited time in pre-season. He choked yesterday and the coaches were maybe late in shifting Urbik. But even that's understandable given Urlik's lack of practice perhaps.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[RuntheDamnBall]

FWIW - I have no problem with trading Evans (would have preferred a higher pick, but oh well). On the other hand, cutting Hangartner seemed gratuitous at the time. They took a gamble and it did not work out (not that Hangartner was any great shakes). Nevertheless, I am not going to be overly critical of Buddy for this.

Hangartner is probably a "C" as a center. Levitre "D+" in that he probably couldn't play worse than he did yesterday, but shift that to an "F" when you realize it disturbs the continuity you had at LG with an "A" player there. That's a pretty unconscionable plan B.

 

I did and do think the Evans trade sucked.

 

Stevie J.

Donald Jones

Roscoe

David Nelson

Marcus Easley

Brad Smith

----PLAN Bs:

Ruvell Martin

Roosevelt

Spiller

K. Aiken

Toone

 

My condolences to Jones on the injury, but he was a lousy #2. Roscoe is exactly what we knew he was - a brittle "playmaker" who can't last a season and has a 10-cent head. Spiller might be a more durable clone of him with a penchant for getting open and dropping the rock. Ruvell Martin is a crummy receiver who plays a necessary role on STs. You hope to never see him lining up on offense.

 

Stevie is playing hurt, and that stinks. I love the guy but he cannot give 100% right now. David Nelson is the only other NFL receiver here and he is a fine #3 who cannot excel in double coverage or tight press at the line of scrimmage.

 

Regardless, you have two guys you'd like to have on an NFL team, and a bunch of filler. Ideally, Jones, Aiken, Roscoe, Martin and Easley are all fighting for two spots at the bottom of the depth chart. Instead, they cost three of our roster spots, one of them the #2 starter. That's pathetic, and I'd like to see a show of hands on anyone who thought DJ was a verifiable starter in this league at the beginning of the season. He wasn't. So, what happens when one or both are limited (to say nothing of having all of your top 6 banged up or IR'd)? If you keep Evans and the depth chart shifts down one, who knows what happens? What doesn't happen is Donald Jones starting at #2 to begin the season, and that would have been a good thing.

 

A pale silver lining in all this would be to discover that Roosevelt and Aiken can play. Here's hoping.

[xsoldier54]

Lee Evans ended up getting hurt in the preseason for Baltimore (foot), and there's no way to predict whether he would have suffered the same injury here. If he had stayed here, he may have been fine. It's the luck of the draw, and it's not like he's an injury prone player.

Well I seem to remember that the last two seasons he averaged 2.8 receptions per game. And the fact of the matter is, he has done nothing this year to justify your post. I could see if he were tearing up the league, but he isn't. He's hurt and he's doing nothing. He was a one trick pony. And Hangartner was terrible.