Von Miller

[Fan in Chicago]

Where are the guys that were saying Von Miller is too small and weak to be effective in the NFL?

 

I am here and I was worried about his size. Yet the Bills FO would have drafted him if Newton and Dareus were gone.

The Bills had to make the safe pick this year after blowing so many #1s recently. Given that, I would have rooted for Dareus even if we were picking #2 cos all scouting things being equal: (1) Our run D was a top priority this year (2) We needed more size in the front -7. (3) Dareus is versatile - can play nose or DT.

 

So, yes Von Miller has looked but I have no regrets with our pick. Also, note that having Dumervil on the other side helps Von Miller immensely as opposing Offenses have to pick their poison. Denver's overall D is very good and we are going to have trouble when we play them.

[Dorkington]

If we would have drafted him, he probably would have ended up worthless. Our player development stinks.

[DrDawkinstein]

Go back to the Miller thread and actually read what some of us wrote. It wasnt that he was "too small to play in the NFL", it was SPECIFICALLY that he was too small to be a major factor against the run.

 

Our biggest weakness last year was Run Defense. Our pass rush and coverage (or lack there of) didnt even matter because teams just mercilessly pounded us on the ground.

 

Miller is exactly what I thought he was. A pass rush specialist.

 

Im glad to see the kid have a successful rookie season and hope it continues.

 

I still stand by my statement that DAREUS was the best pick for us. Of course, now that our run D has improved (thanks to Dareus), it shows how bad our pass rush is and everyone forgets about the original problem that we addressed.

 

Miller would not have helped this team much this year. Especially with Williams going down. We were deeper at LB than at DL going into the season (which is scary to think about considering where we are now due to injuries).

 

Good for Miller. Glad we have Dareus.

[D521646]

Well I guess I'm one fot he few that would've taken Von Miller, -or- Darius. I thought both would be good for the Bills in different ways, AND it appears that this seems to hold true. Our defensive run stuffing will improve, and no one runs by Darius if he has a hand free. I don't feel the least bit cheated with Marcell. That said, it does seem clear that we need a pass rusher -or- two on the edge if this defense hopes to be among the elite in this league. Couldn't hurt to have another DB as well, and maybe some depth at LB ..

 

Heck we need a lot of things, but no way am I willing to say that Miller would've been the better pick (Even though it wasn't up to us to decide). A true 4/3 with Kyle and Marcell healthy will stop the run inside, and that bodes well for us moving forward. How many RB's gained the edge on us this year? Not many, and those that did are elite runners like McFadden et al ..

 

We're fine on defense, and our boys are learning and growing together. Patience is a virtue!

 

 

Tim-

[truth on hold]

It was my understanding bills had their draft board exacty how it went down from 1 to 3: newton miller dareus. They took dareus because the other 2 werent available. I think they also gave serious consideration to green and Peterson.

They were the top 5 players in the draft, I'd say that's clear

Edited November 18, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack

[dave mcbride]

It was my understanding bills had their draft board exacty how it went down from 1 to 3: newton miller dareus. They took dareus because the other 2 werent available. I think they also gave serious consideration to green and Peterson.

They were the top 5 players in the draft, I'd say that's clear

That is my recollection as well. Retrospective rumors about taking Gabbert if Dareus was gone were smoke screens to make Dareus feel good. There's no way they were taking Gabbert. If given the choice, the Bills would've taken Miller over Dareus. They loved Miller, and he was the higher rated player. Still, Dareus was a fine choice too. The Broncos did get the more impactful player, but it's not as if the Bills wound up with a stiff.

[K-9]

Go back to the Miller thread and actually read what some of us wrote. It wasnt that he was "too small to play in the NFL", it was SPECIFICALLY that he was too small to be a major factor against the run.

 

Our biggest weakness last year was Run Defense. Our pass rush and coverage (or lack there of) didnt even matter because teams just mercilessly pounded us on the ground.

 

Miller is exactly what I thought he was. A pass rush specialist.

 

Im glad to see the kid have a successful rookie season and hope it continues.

 

I still stand by my statement that DAREUS was the best pick for us. Of course, now that our run D has improved (thanks to Dareus), it shows how bad our pass rush is and everyone forgets about the original problem that we addressed.

 

Miller would not have helped this team much this year. Especially with Williams going down. We were deeper at LB than at DL going into the season (which is scary to think about considering where we are now due to injuries).

 

Good for Miller. Glad we have Dareus.

 

He got caught up between the OT and TE a couple times against the Jests, like most OLBs from time to time. But he played the run very well last night and he has since he was benched. His backside pursuit was fantastic as well.

 

He's way more than a pass rush specialist.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited November 18, 2011 by K-9

[Webster Guy]

Marv Levy was quoted saying even if Willis was available he wasn't going to take him...

Yeah i remember when he said that. Willis was (and is) as close to an nfl guarantee as Ngata was. Levy passed on one and wldve passed on the other. He was never a talent scout or gm material.

Watching 4th rounder Dumerville and Von Miller shred that same Jets Oline we couldnt get ONE pressure on a few weeks ago was bittersweet.

Our defense has been bad since Wade left.

[Turbosrrgood]

Where are the guys that were saying Von Miller is too small and weak to be effective in the NFL? So many people ranting: "he gets manhandled by college TEs, the NFL tackles will eat him alive". well, you're wrong. I love Dareus. I'm glad we have him. I'm gonna get crucified for this, but I'd rather have Miller. Having a PREMIER pass rusher is so important in today's game and Miller IS a premier pass rusher. Dareus will be a dominant player for years to come and will hopefully anchor our defense for his entire career, but until we get premier pass rusher, our defense will continue to struggle (even after Edwards is axed). This isn't an anti Dareus post, he's the best player on our roster (fred ex may have something to say about that), but a hail Von Miller post. The guy is an absolute monster. 9 tackles 1 sack (maybe 1.5) a FF. The sack pretty much ended the game. 9 or 10 sacks on the season, only 2 games in which he hasn't gotten to the qb. He's not a Bill, but I'm a fan. Lets hope he doesn't end fitz in a couple weeks.

 

Personally, I never doubted Miller would be able to get to the QB but I will admit he has been better than I expected at doing that...

 

However what many people were worried about with Miller was his ability to play LB (playing the run, and coverage). I have watched almost every game, and so far he has been awful in both categories. He makes some nice plays against the run when gets them in the backfield, but in all other situations disappears. He was even benched at one point because of his inability to play the run.

 

What you get with Miller is a one dimensional pass rusher (looking to be a pretty good one at that). I think that was the concern for a lot of people at draft time, considering our awful run D last year.

 

I still think the Bills were better off with Dareus, who can stop the run and the pass, as well as play multiple positions. Miller is proving his worth, he is just a PURE pass rusher.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

Go back to the Miller thread and actually read what some of us wrote. It wasnt that he was "too small to play in the NFL", it was SPECIFICALLY that he was too small to be a major factor against the run.

 

Our biggest weakness last year was Run Defense. Our pass rush and coverage (or lack there of) didnt even matter because teams just mercilessly pounded us on the ground.

 

Miller is exactly what I thought he was. A pass rush specialist.

 

Im glad to see the kid have a successful rookie season and hope it continues.

 

I still stand by my statement that DAREUS was the best pick for us. Of course, now that our run D has improved (thanks to Dareus), it shows how bad our pass rush is and everyone forgets about the original problem that we addressed.

 

Miller would not have helped this team much this year. Especially with Williams going down. We were deeper at LB than at DL going into the season (which is scary to think about considering where we are now due to injuries).

Good for Miller. Glad we have Dareus.

Have to disagree here dude. Unless you want to count Kelsey, Johnson and Carrington as olb's. I know they're playing/played in those positions, but they are not 3-4 olb's. I still think the greater need was at olb, but I am happy with Dareus.

I'm also not happy with the run d and still think we could stand to add a true nt to the mix because troup doesn't look like he's getting the job done. Hopefully he will improve, but I was hoping for more production out of him by now.

[Turbosrrgood]

Go back to the Miller thread and actually read what some of us wrote. It wasnt that he was "too small to play in the NFL", it was SPECIFICALLY that he was too small to be a major factor against the run.

 

Our biggest weakness last year was Run Defense. Our pass rush and coverage (or lack there of) didnt even matter because teams just mercilessly pounded us on the ground.

 

Miller is exactly what I thought he was. A pass rush specialist.

 

Im glad to see the kid have a successful rookie season and hope it continues.

 

I still stand by my statement that DAREUS was the best pick for us. Of course, now that our run D has improved (thanks to Dareus), it shows how bad our pass rush is and everyone forgets about the original problem that we addressed.

 

Miller would not have helped this team much this year. Especially with Williams going down. We were deeper at LB than at DL going into the season (which is scary to think about considering where we are now due to injuries).

 

Good for Miller. Glad we have Dareus.

 

This exactly...Some Miller fans wont accept his glaring faults in the run and pass coverage games. However I will admit he was worth his draft spot on pure pass rushing alone. I think the Bills needed Dareus much more though, a pass rusher isn't much use when teams can run against you unchallenged, like the Bills of last year. Dareus is even more important with the injury to KW, our best defensive player.

[Webster Guy]

The question is will people take something from their "knowledge" gained with respect to future drafts.

 

Not to thread jack, but the volume of "Cam Newton is Jamarcus Russell - redux" threads was over-whelming. He has been anything but; and though a few have owned up to their mistakes, the prominent "Jamarcus Russell redux"

voices have been conspicuously quiet. Hmmmm.....

 

 

By the way, this is the opening salvo in my dedicated push for the Bills to draft Robert Griffin III! I imagine that if I mention his name enough, there will be a natural acceptance/acclimation process. I figure that some people here have to get used to the idea of a black QB in advance.

 

I will admit i thought Cam was the next Jamarcus Russel. I was praying he would be gone at 3. The dude looks as good as any rookie qb ever has that I can remember. I posted that my favorite guy was Dalton. He's looking great so far. AJ Green doesnt hurt.

[Turbosrrgood]

Have to disagree here dude. Unless you want to count Kelsey, Johnson and Carrington as olb's. I know they're playing/played in those positions, but they are not 3-4 olb's. I still think the greater need was at olb, but I am happy with Dareus.

I'm also not happy with the run d and still think we could stand to add a true nt to the mix because troup doesn't look like he's getting the job done. Hopefully he will improve, but I was hoping for more production out of him by now.

 

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. As you mentioned those guys ARE playing OLB. The Bills badly needed the beef on the front line, and it's not like Dareus doesn't provide pressure. Did you for get our epic disaster of a run D last year? Our pass defense was ranked ok...because no teams even BOTHERED to pass against us. A pass rusher doesn't help in that situation.

 

Dareus has been a beast all year, and has produced plenty. He isn't going to get 15 sacks, that isn't whats expected of him. As a rookie, I think he has been exactly what we wanted. We still have a weak, inexperienced LB core behind him (except Barnett), and precious little other help on the D-line. And that is still an issue. He is getting double teamed on virtually every play.

 

Obviously the Bills certainly could have used either guy, I think they started in the right place...Besides, there was never a choice in the matter. Miller was selected BEFORE the Bills picked.

 

I will admit i thought Cam was the next Jamarcus Russel. I was praying he would be gone at 3. The dude looks as good as any rookie qb ever has that I can remember. I posted that my favorite guy was Dalton. He's looking great so far. AJ Green doesnt hurt.

 

This is a good point...It looks like all of the early draft picks are living up to the hype...I feel like that never happens...

Edited November 18, 2011 by Turbosrrgood

[Never NEVER Give-up]

I was worried about his size. Looks like I was wrong so far. This draft was stocked.

 

I stand by my call though that a guy his size isn't a safe bet that high. He's been excellent but that's an exception, not the rule (atleast in my head still) in general. Great players can defy rules though!

Agreed, and that made Dareus the safer pick and best pick for the Bills. And the Bills need to draft sure things, not take fliers on Willis McGahees, Roscoe Parrishes, etc. We need to draft guys we know will contribute - Levitre, Wood, Sheppard, Dareus, Williams - we're getting better at it!

[4BillsintheBurgh]

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. As you mentioned those guys ARE playing OLB. The Bills badly needed the beef on the front line, and it's not like Dareus doesn't provide pressure. Did you for get our epic disaster of a run D last year? Our pass defense was ranked ok...because no teams even BOTHERED to pass against us. A pass rusher doesn't help in that situation.

 

Dareus has been a beast all year, and has produced plenty. He isn't going to get 15 sacks, that isn't whats expected of him. As a rookie, I think he has been exactly what we wanted. We still have a weak, inexperienced LB core behind him (except Barnett). And that is still an issue.

 

Obviously the Bills certainly could have used either guy, I think they started in the right place...Besides, there was never a choice in the matter. Miller was selected BEFORE the Bills picked.

 

 

 

This is a good point...It looks like all of the early draft picks are living up to the hype...I feel like that never happens...

Let me explain it - those three guys should not be playing olb in a 3-4, they should be playing de at best. We are using them there because we have no one else qualified. It's also why we have to play a hybrid, we're trying to use what we've got instead of flushing guys and starting over.

I also didn't say the run defense was as bad as it was last year; it's better but not good enough yet even using heavier players. The NT is needed to anchor the line of scrimmage and let williams/dareus use their quickness to make plays. This player does not rush the passer much. The three down lineman need to force double teams, and if they're not doubled they need to get in on the run play.

I'd like to see us go olb/nt/olb in the first three rounds of the draft, and if they hit on two of those guys we should be okay.

[Ramius]

Go back to the Miller thread and actually read what some of us wrote. It wasnt that he was "too small to play in the NFL", it was SPECIFICALLY that he was too small to be a major factor against the run.

 

Our biggest weakness last year was Run Defense. Our pass rush and coverage (or lack there of) didnt even matter because teams just mercilessly pounded us on the ground.

 

Miller is exactly what I thought he was. A pass rush specialist.

 

Im glad to see the kid have a successful rookie season and hope it continues.

 

I still stand by my statement that DAREUS was the best pick for us. Of course, now that our run D has improved (thanks to Dareus), it shows how bad our pass rush is and everyone forgets about the original problem that we addressed.

 

Miller would not have helped this team much this year. Especially with Williams going down. We were deeper at LB than at DL going into the season (which is scary to think about considering where we are now due to injuries).

 

Good for Miller. Glad we have Dareus.

 

You guys were leading the charge saying that he's too small to be effective. Bottom line. You guys were ridiculous in completely writing him off because he weighed 246 and not 260. Perhaps we can dig up the threads.

 

As for the last part, you're correct. The Bills would have had no need/use for Von Miller and his 9.5 sacks.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Ramius

[DrDawkinstein]

You guys were leading the charge saying that he's too small to be effective. Bottom line. You guys were ridiculous in completely writing him off because he weighed 246 and not 260. Perhaps we can dig up the threads.

 

As for the last part, you're correct. The Bills would have had no need/use for Von Miller and his 9.5 sacks.

 

Dig it up, please. I know exactly what I posted. And I did say that since he weighed 246 he would not help us with our biggest problem and that was "Adding size to help stop the run". I never said he wouldnt be effective at all. Just that he wasn't a complete player. And Im happy he's doing well, but I stand by that still.

 

I fully admitted in that thread that he could rush the passer. But that wasnt our biggest problem. Now that we CAN stop the run, our problem is pass rush, and we will address it this offseason. Im confident in Buddy.

Edited November 18, 2011 by DrDareustein

[K-9]

Dig it up, please. I know exactly what I posted. And I did say that since he weighed 246 he would not help us with our biggest problem and that was "Adding size to help stop the run". I never said he wouldnt be effective at all. Just that he wasn't a complete player. And Im happy he's doing well, but I stand by that still.

 

I fully admitted in that thread that he could rush the passer. But that wasnt our biggest problem. Now that we CAN stop the run, our problem is pass rush, and we will address it this offseason. Im confident in Buddy.

 

Not for nothing and not to digress but we still can't stop the run.

 

Unless we play the 'Skins every week.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[DrDawkinstein]

Not for nothing and not to digress but we still can't stop the run.

 

Unless we play the 'Skins every week.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

When we are healthy, with Williams and Dareus and even Kelsay, our run defense is amazing. We started the year by shutting down two of the best rushing teams in the NFL and made them one-dimensional.

[Ozymandius]

Dig it up, please. I know exactly what I posted. And I did say that since he weighed 246 he would not help us with our biggest problem and that was "Adding size to help stop the run". I never said he wouldnt be effective at all. Just that he wasn't a complete player. And Im happy he's doing well, but I stand by that still.

 

I fully admitted in that thread that he could rush the passer. But that wasnt our biggest problem. Now that we CAN stop the run, our problem is pass rush, and we will address it this offseason. Im confident in Buddy.

 

Quote from you: "Miller is a marginally more talented Maybin at this point."

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/125960-von-millers-potential-in-the-nfl/page__view__findpost__p__2084594

 

How 'bout just a simple "I was wrong." We're all wrong at some point or another

 

Another Maybin comparison by DrDareustein: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/125735-two-possible-picks-playing-tonight/page__view__findpost__p__2080524