Underlying Problem?

[Chimp]

I am very concerned that Chan seems to think that the talent and scheme are adequate but that the players simply need to be more detail-focused. Hopefully he's just lying when he says that, because it's 100% obvious that this defense is downright easy to play against. I don't know that I've ever seen a defense look this easy for the other team's offense to perform against (even last year's defense had a decent success rate against the pass). There is no way that the problem is simply a lack of focus.

 

Chan isn't going to fire Edwards midseason because he's been a coach too long for that type of behavior. So unfortunately, we're stuck with this for the rest of the season, even though there are TWO former defensive coordinators on staff right now (Wanny and Bob Sanders). But if Chan won't fire Edwards at the end of the season, then I'm forced to say that Chan needs to go.

I'm very concerned that you people all seem to think Chan can just come out and tell everyone his players aren't good enough. Ever think that maybe he realizes this and this is the best they can do with what they have? Name 3 people on the offensive side of the ball that another team in the NFL would love to have.

[buffaloboyinATL]

Chan made some adjustments and had a few great plays down field that would have softened the Defense if they would have been successful. It is not his fault that Spiller tripped and Jones dropped a couple of well thrown passes. The adjustments were made and would have worked if they were executed properly.

[BobChalmers]

The first play from scrimmage with Ware being unaccounted for tells me that our head coach sucks.

 

Having McKelvin covering Dez Bryant at any point tells me that our head coach sucks.

 

Game over, season over, only a couple of minutes into the game. Did anyone here think they still had a chance after those two plays?????

 

Why's our season over with a winning 5-4 record? Because our head coach does in fact suck.

 

Ware sack at start was 100% Fitz's fault - he needs to see that and audible an extra blocker (Fred/Chandler, etc) over to the left.

 

That Bills have scored as well as they have to this point with these mediocre WR's is proof Gailey is at least a great Offensive Coordinator. Stevie would be a great #2 - he's a mediocre #1. They have no WR's with speed - they were counting on Easely being that guy and he's on IR again.

 

Bills have no pass-rushers - they were counting on Merriman and Williams and they are both on IR.

 

Season's not over - but losing the most talented players on offense and defense for the year (Wood and Williams) is not a good sign.

 

Note also - they were doing fine until BOTH Bell and Hairston went out - forcing Levitre - who was on his way to a Pro Bowl - to play out of poistion. Losing one OLT happens. Losing the starter AND the backup is just crappy luck.

 

I'd add that the OL's excellent play when healthy has also been covering the deficiencies at WR. If Urbik plays well and Hairston and/or Bell get back SOON they might well recover and win as many as 10. @Jets and @Pats is tough without Wood and Williams though.

Edited November 15, 2011 by BobChalmers

[uncle flap]

hailed as a genius through the first 5 weeks, now the underlying problem.

like the weather in Buffalo, wait a minute and it'll change.

sheesh.

 

jw

 

this is such a weak point of view and terrible rhetoric. chan appeared to be a genius the first few weeks, now, i'm not so sure. why? because the bills were playing well and winning, now they aren't. it's not some baseless wild mood swing - it's a reaction to results.

 

must be nice to be a journalist and live in an emotional vacuum. sheesh.

 

 

McKelvin is the only corner we have that has the jets to stay with Bryant! The other two are 5 yards slower than Bryant. WHAT IS YOUR BETTER IDEA?

 

my BETTER IDEA is to keep a safety deep so Romo thinks twice about launching it down the field. on that play, bills showed blitz. romo audibled, and bills didnt adjust to his adjustment.

 

 

 

"Screens don't work when DBs and LBs are sitting on short routes anyway. Defense needs to be able to make on field adjustments without coaches clearance" So, since Chan is the problem, tell me what you would do differently? What adjustments would you like to see?

 

 

 

The real answer begins with, "It depends..."

 

But... i'm sure you noticed in my OP that i admit the players aren't executing or playing with a fire in their bellies. fixing that helps a lot.

 

in the dallas game: i would've called more running plays early. keeps the defense fresh and the cowboys offense off of the field. or maybe with the 5 wide sets, send EVERYONE deep and let fitz run some qb draws.

 

I'm not a coach, i just play madden. but i know if your opponent knows what youre going to do before you do it, youre in trouble.

 

maybe i didnt articulate it well enough in the OP, but my problem is that chan and the players are saying, "we just need to execute better." while that's true, the unsaid message that accompanies that idea is that the play calling and scheming are just fine. maybe chan doesnt want to show his cards, but since we havent seen any changes in the play calling or game plans, i'm worried chan is unable to see that he has to throw some more wrinkles in to keep defense honest, and stop them from sitting on the 5-10 yard routes.

 

THE OFFENSE IS TOO PREDICTABLE AND CHAN SAYS IT'S A MATTER OF EXECUTION. i just don't think it's that simple.

[mattsox]

This team has no depth! That's the underlying problem. 10 years of bad drafts combined with the lockout is the problem. We are headed in the right direction but we need a quality bench!

 

Couldn't agree more. This teams depth sucks eggs. I have no idea what they were thinking going into a season with a team like this. 5 Wins now seems like a goldstar performance for a team with no bench...

[1billsfan]

Couldn't agree more. This teams depth sucks eggs. I have no idea what they were thinking going into a season with a team like this. 5 Wins now seems like a goldstar performance for a team with no bench...

 

These were the Jauron excuses. Sorry but the backups are NFL players too. There was no way the Bills should have had their doors blown in by the mediocre Jets and Dallas other than it was Chan's very poor head coaching that made those games as bad as they were.

 

Our players look lost out there and that's on Chan.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I'm very concerned that you people all seem to think Chan can just come out and tell everyone his players aren't good enough. Ever think that maybe he realizes this and this is the best they can do with what they have? Name 3 people on the offensive side of the ball that another team in the NFL would love to have.

 

There are plenty of guys other teams would like to have on the O. They might not be starters on every team but there are some great locker room guys with talent. At the same time you can't win consistently when that is all you have at every position is great locker room guys with some talent. You need 3 or 4 superstars that will win every one on one match up they face and a stout line with depth to recover from injuries. CJ Spiller was supposed to be one of those guys, he hasn't arrived and may never. I cannot even think of another player drafted that was a prospective superstar on Offense

 

 

Edited November 15, 2011 by over 20 years of fanhood

[John from Riverside]

Anybody watch or listen to the post-game press conferences the past two weeks?

 

Chan's presser

 

I'm hearing a lot of the same sentiment, and it seems to me that Chan has these guys convinced that it is simply a matter or execution, and/or playing harder.

 

I don't think it's that simple. Yes, the guys played flat. Everyone would've liked to see the Bills get up for a big home game last week. Then after getting smacked in your own house, you'd think the Bills could've played with a little more passion down in Dallas.

 

Here's the rub: Once again, the play calling has become predictable - on both sides of the ball.

 

Screens don't work when DBs and LBs are sitting on short routes anyway. Defense needs to be able to make on field adjustments without coaches clearance.

 

I could go on - but my point here is that even if the Bills were playing tough and "executing," there is still a lot of room for improvement in game planning and play calling.

 

Here's to hoping that Chan is looking in the mirror and realizing that he (and the rest of the coaching staff) need to put the players in a better position to succeed.

 

Anyone agree? or is it true that it's just a matter of the players needing to make plays?

 

 

or maybe....just maybe....we have won 5 games BECAUSE of Chan Gailey's coaching and lack of talent is catching up with us now?

[Fan in San Diego]

I'm starting to think the same thing. I need to see some real adjustments in the next game to form an opinion.

[uncle flap]

or maybe....just maybe....we have won 5 games BECAUSE of Chan Gailey's coaching and lack of talent is catching up with us now?

 

What you're saying about lack of talent means we won because of Kyle Williams and the other players who are out now and weren't before. Therefore, they won despite gaileys coaching?

[3rdand12]

we have not had a receiver skilled enough to gain seperation so we run 5 wides for confusion and or mismatch. But it seems that is too much for fitz to watch all of them. Stevie is pretty good but he is nicked up(groin) and it shows. But he is not elite or big and fast. Nothing against the kid at all. should be a great # 2. so we are coaching around weakness in my opinion. as far as evaluating any schemes or coaching it's almost useless at this point. Lets see how our rookies develop and the 2nd year guys who all missed so much with lockout develop. we are almost to the point with O line we just hope to keep Fitz unbroken. I agree with a poster lets just line up 1,2 and 3 wr sets, use the fullback and TE and play smash em up. Lets see some spiller dvelopment as he is getting better at blocking and recognition finally.

i sure hope we do not look so bad against Miami after all we have just gone through.

[Gray Beard]

We are all students of the game. I have been an avid football fan for decades. We all have seen the game evolve. We all have ideas that may help this team get out of the hole that they have found themselves in. We are a fan forum, we have no power. We can discuss things like short passes to tight ends, power running, two back sets, defensive schemes that don't leave the middle of the field open for short passes, etc. We can all discuss whether Gailey knows what he is doing or not, or ask why Spiller is not being used, or discuss whether Stevie is "elite" or lament the inability to pressure the QB, or wail and gnash our teeth as yet another player goes on IR, but what's the point? All we can do is watch and hope. If that is not satisfying, then what else is there to do? I will always watch and hope, but at this point I feel that even though there is a general consensus among the posters on this forum about how to fix the team, there is nothing that we can do about it. I'm no psychologist, but I guess it's supposed to be healthy to discuss these things with like minded people.

[DrFishfinder]

hailed as a genius through the first 5 weeks, now the underlying problem.

like the weather in Buffalo, wait a minute and it'll change.

sheesh.

 

jw

 

and the steadily mounting injuries, no deep threat, a wretched DC who should never have been retained and no one capable of anything remotely resembling a pass rush don't help either.

 

NOT to be a wise guy, but what SHOULD he be telling them? That they are a group of non blue chip, over-achievers?

 

Have you ever wondered why the Bills have so many udfas and 7th round picks who contribute? It's because we can almost be counted on to tank with early picks, the latest fiasco being Spiller.

 

Gailey had these guys performing and believing in themselves. Now they are beaten down by injuries, the OL, and pass rush. Nothing new here. But, they topped last years number of wins, and they are in a good position to correct their problems. If the go after a first round RB or DB, just tell yourself that things will never change.

 

Nah.....Gailey isn't the problem.

 

Injuries to the key starters have really had a tremendous impact. We have a glaring lack of depth behind the starters.

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

We are all students of the game. I have been an avid football fan for decades. We all have seen the game evolve. We all have ideas that may help this team get out of the hole that they have found themselves in. We are a fan forum, we have no power. We can discuss things like short passes to tight ends, power running, two back sets, defensive schemes that don't leave the middle of the field open for short passes, etc. We can all discuss whether Gailey knows what he is doing or not, or ask why Spiller is not being used, or discuss whether Stevie is "elite" or lament the inability to pressure the QB, or wail and gnash our teeth as yet another player goes on IR, but what's the point? All we can do is watch and hope. If that is not satisfying, then what else is there to do? I will always watch and hope, but at this point I feel that even though there is a general consensus among the posters on this forum about how to fix the team, there is nothing that we can do about it. I'm no psychologist, but I guess it's supposed to be healthy to discuss these things with like minded people.

Yes it's just armchair coaching/managing, but it makes me feel better knowing there are other folks as passionate about the Bills as I am, who have ideas how to make them better, even if I don't often agree with them, and even if the FO doesn't read them. I read this board for over 10 years before finally taking the plunge and posting my first post in September. It's been great therapy. Go Bills!

[SactoBillFan]

These were the Jauron excuses. Sorry but the backups are NFL players too.

Tell that to the Colts.

 

This is a rediculous thread. How many people even thought Bills would win 5 games this year. Panic has struck....

[Sisyphean Bills]

Even if we believe the "genius" proclamations, it does happen that even a genius can be dealt a 1 trick hand.

[Delete This Account]

this is such a weak point of view and terrible rhetoric. chan appeared to be a genius the first few weeks, now, i'm not so sure. why? because the bills were playing well and winning, now they aren't. it's not some baseless wild mood swing - it's a reaction to results.

 

must be nice to be a journalist and live in an emotional vacuum. sheesh.

 

 

my point is that some of us in the media were being targeted by many on this board early in the season for failing to forecast the Bills as being playoff contenders once they got off to a 3-0 start. and some members of the media were being villified for it. i've attempted to maintain a pretty even perspective here in the face of shifting winds that while the Bills are better, they've yet to prove they're playoff contenders.

 

and i'll acknowledge after picking them to win 5 games that i also said the best hope is that they get to 7-9 or 8-8 and show they're capable of taking the next step in their rebuilding progression given some of their apparent deficiencies, some of which are cropping up, such as their lack of experienced depth. and that has been an issue since Buddy Nix first raised it in training camp.

 

Gailey and the offense have made strides. they will eventually need to make more. and bolstering the pass rush is critical going into next season.

 

but for this board to go literally overnight from hailing Gailey as Megamind to referring to him as "an underlying problem," well that's a little knee-jerkian isn't it?

he's a good coach, who's done much with little, given where he began.

 

the 3-0 and 4-1 start might have raised hope, but the fact that this team will likely arrive somewhere around 7-8 wins at the end of the year doesn't make this for a lost season.

 

i don't live in a vacuum. i happen to attempt to maintain a sense of perspective.

 

jw

[NoSaint]

my point is that some of us in the media were being targeted by many on this board early in the season for failing to forecast the Bills as being playoff contenders once they got off to a 3-0 start. and some members of the media were being villified for it. i've attempted to maintain a pretty even perspective here in the face of shifting winds that while the Bills are better, they've yet to prove they're playoff contenders.

 

and i'll acknowledge after picking them to win 5 games that i also said the best hope is that they get to 7-9 or 8-8 and show they're capable of taking the next step in their rebuilding progression given some of their apparent deficiencies, some of which are cropping up, such as their lack of experienced depth. and that has been an issue since Buddy Nix first raised it in training camp.

 

Gailey and the offense have made strides. they will eventually need to make more. and bolstering the pass rush is critical going into next season.

 

but for this board to go literally overnight from hailing Gailey as Megamind to referring to him as "an underlying problem," well that's a little knee-jerkian isn't it?

he's a good coach, who's done much with little, given where he began.

 

the 3-0 and 4-1 start might have raised hope, but the fact that this team will likely arrive somewhere around 7-8 wins at the end of the year doesn't make this for a lost season.

 

i don't live in a vacuum. i happen to attempt to maintain a sense of perspective.

 

jw

 

i think ive been drinking the same drink as you through all this. its amazing how it seems that viewpoint went from hater to homer in about 3 weeks, without really changing. i think i was 5-7 wins to start, and then after the fast start accepted it possible to be 1-2 above that. my reasons the whole way through:

 

 

WR depth - we were looking for A LOT of unproven guys to step up. even if we hit on 2-3 of those guys it looked like things could get thin quick. here we are. i believe my running concern with the evans trade wasnt that evans was our savior but that if stevie pulled a hammy that our offense might stall real hard.

 

Oline - we gameplanned around a lack of deep threat, and lack of protection for that mythical deep threat and did better than i expected. its hard to win week in and week out on scheme. obviously it has to be part of the formula, but without superior talent, you will get caught eventually.

 

pass rush - i had hopes for merriman, but without him was worried that this defense would be bordering on impossible to evaluate. without a pass rush, how do we know what edwards is capable of? our corners?

 

fitz - hes good, not great. he wont be the reason the wheels fall off, but he isnt going to put a broken team on his back and carry them either.

 

 

experience - we just dont have many guys that have been there.

 

 

 

 

 

weve been playing well, a couple bounces might get us in, but i have next year circled for wild card contention. i think if we come out ahead on free agency on a net level, and hit on a round one pick, we will be good enough.

 

add a starting caliber pass rusher (draft likely, as few free agents, and always pricey), OT, and a wr and i like our odds.

[uncle flap]

my point is that some of us in the media were being targeted by many on this board early in the season for failing to forecast the Bills as being playoff contenders once they got off to a 3-0 start. and some members of the media were being villified for it. i've attempted to maintain a pretty even perspective here in the face of shifting winds that while the Bills are better, they've yet to prove they're playoff contenders.

 

and i'll acknowledge after picking them to win 5 games that i also said the best hope is that they get to 7-9 or 8-8 and show they're capable of taking the next step in their rebuilding progression given some of their apparent deficiencies, some of which are cropping up, such as their lack of experienced depth. and that has been an issue since Buddy Nix first raised it in training camp.

 

Gailey and the offense have made strides. they will eventually need to make more. and bolstering the pass rush is critical going into next season.

 

but for this board to go literally overnight from hailing Gailey as Megamind to referring to him as "an underlying problem," well that's a little knee-jerkian isn't it?

he's a good coach, who's done much with little, given where he began.

 

the 3-0 and 4-1 start might have raised hope, but the fact that this team will likely arrive somewhere around 7-8 wins at the end of the year doesn't make this for a lost season.

 

i don't live in a vacuum. i happen to attempt to maintain a sense of perspective.

 

jw

 

sorry for the ad hominem criticism... i just took offense feeling that i was personally being labeled as some type of bipolar fan.

 

you are correct - and i agree- that, when viewed as a whole, the board certainly overreacts to the ebb and flow of the team's performance.

 

however, i think i asked a valid question - is it possible that chan thinks the simple solution to the team's recent woes is a matter of proper execution? could it be possible that there is another problem? an underlying problem related to coaching? maybe. maybe not. we dont know, but we sure can wonder. and wonder out loud here on the internet.

 

i think there was quite a thoughtful discussion here. i was entertained, and full from food for thought.

 

john - reread my OP and tell me again where I am suffering from kneejerkitis. actually, don't bother because i know you weren't referring to me even though you quoted my thread title.

 

we are all fans here. i realize you are sometimes in a difficult position here due to your line of work. sorry i called your profession out. i'm a teacher - so feel free to poke fun at that if you wish.

 

go bills, and here's to hoping you're covering our favorite team at lucas oil stadium in a few months!

[london_bills]

 

 

however, i think i asked a valid question - is it possible that chan thinks the simple solution to the team's recent woes is a matter of proper execution? could it be possible that there is another problem? an underlying problem related to coaching? maybe. maybe not. we dont know, but we sure can wonder. and wonder out loud here on the internet.

 

 

 

chan does seem to be quite stubborn and i think this could play into the fact that he blames recent woes on execution by the players. to be fair though he has a point - jones dropped the ball a few times, spiller dropped the ball...

 

 

at 5-4 however, we should agree to give him the benefit of the doubt!