nero47 Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 We place a enormous amount of blame on Ref calls, but correct me please. Aren't they parttimers. By that unlike officials in other sports they are not solely employed year round by the NFL. They actually go their separate ways instead of viewing tape together throughout the week to improve their skills.
RealityCheck Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 We place a enormous amount of blame on Ref calls, but correct me please. Aren't they parttimers. By that unlike officials in other sports they are not solely employed year round by the NFL. They actually go their separate ways instead of viewing tape together throughout the week to improve their skills. With the league revenue and ridiculous complexity of the game, it is quite a paradox.
BuffaloBud Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 Let me add some feedback here, although a bit dated. My wife worked for a NFL referee (umpire) about 15 years ago. Referees are employed by the NFL for the entire year. They did not meet as a "team" during the week. The league would review the game tape and provide written feedback to each member of the crew for every play. Why did you make this call, why were you not in the correct position, why did you not make this call, that type of thing. The crew met via conference call after the feedback. Crews are graded for every game. Better crews get post season assignments. Higher rated refs from each crew get picked for Super Bowl. With the progression of video, I now would imagine that they get DVDs with this information rather than written form.
nero47 Posted November 10, 2011 Author Posted November 10, 2011 Let me add some feedback here, although a bit dated. My wife worked for a NFL referee (umpire) about 15 years ago. Referees are employed by the NFL for the entire year. They did not meet as a "team" during the week. The league would review the game tape and provide written feedback to each member of the crew for every play. Why did you make this call, why were you not in the correct position, why did you not make this call, that type of thing. The crew met via conference call after the feedback. Crews are graded for every game. Better crews get post season assignments. Higher rated refs from each crew get picked for Super Bowl. With the progression of video, I now would imagine that they get DVDs with this information rather than written form. Thank you for the info.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) Let me add some feedback here, although a bit dated. My wife worked for a NFL referee (umpire) about 15 years ago. Referees are employed by the NFL for the entire year. They did not meet as a "team" during the week. The league would review the game tape and provide written feedback to each member of the crew for every play. Why did you make this call, why were you not in the correct position, why did you not make this call, that type of thing. The crew met via conference call after the feedback. Crews are graded for every game. Better crews get post season assignments. Higher rated refs from each crew get picked for Super Bowl. With the progression of video, I now would imagine that they get DVDs with this information rather than written form. Great info, BB. I read also that they do some professional development during the offseason. I also understand that they're pretty well paid, although I don't know how it compares to MLB, NBA, NHL. The question remains whether NFL officiating would improve by making the officials dedicated, career employees instead of the part timers that they are now. The NFL could pay them more as full timers… but it would cost the league even more for training and development and that might be the crux right there… that the NFL is trying to go cheap in this area and/or that their studies have indicated that the benefits don't justify the costs. A related question is, if they were full time employees, what would the NFL have them doing all week between games? Edited November 10, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan
K-No Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 Although not considered full time employees, these guys have many hours a week dedicated to this effort. The crew arives on Friday night at the game city. They spend that evening and Saturday reviewing tape of the 2 teams thay will see on Sunday, noting formations, shifts, special plays etc. and have a specific agenda up until game time. Then an extensive post game report is written and they are usually home late Sunday night. As one poster stated earlier they get reviewed by the NFL officiating office on each play and have phone meetings during the next couple of days. So you are at the game city or traveling for 3 days, and 1-2 days of meetings, and physical training for the mid-week...I'd say these guys are pretty much full time.
r00tabaga Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 And they are sometimes bad.......scary bad!
NoSaint Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 A related question is, if they were full time employees, what would the NFL have them doing all week between games? They could work with teams reviewing and explaining calls/rules They could work with up and coming refs They could do peer review more They could do work with youth leagues They could be involved with various committees regarding rules, fines, competition They could do all sorts of training in groups Just some ideas off hand, i doubt they add up to a full-time job but with travel and games for about half the year (4 week preseason, 17 week season, 4 weeks post season, pro-bowl= 26 weeks in season) it seems theres things the could do to both improve quality currently and invest in the future.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 They could work with teams reviewing and explaining calls/rules They could work with up and coming refs They could do peer review more They could do work with youth leagues They could be involved with various committees regarding rules, fines, competition They could do all sorts of training in groups Just some ideas off hand, i doubt they add up to a full-time job but with travel and games for about half the year (4 week preseason, 17 week season, 4 weeks post season, pro-bowl= 26 weeks in season) it seems theres things the could do to both improve quality currently and invest in the future. The next questions then are, how many weeks per year do they work? What would their total hours be compared to right now? What would the added cost in their pay amount to? How much additional would the NFL have to invest in all the things you mentioned? To what degree would the clubs view officiating visits as something they'd be willing to incorporate into their schedules? If there's one full officiating crew per every two teams, that's a lot of guys to keep busy full time. And quite an increase in costs it seems. I'm not saying I'm for or against the idea of full time refs but I'm sure the league has studied the issue and is acting on their best information.
NoSaint Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 The next questions then are, how many weeks per year do they work? What would their total hours be compared to right now? What would the added cost in their pay amount to? How much additional would the NFL have to invest in all the things you mentioned? To what degree would the clubs view officiating visits as something they'd be willing to incorporate into their schedules? If there's one full officiating crew per every two teams, that's a lot of guys to keep busy full time. And quite an increase in costs it seems. I'm not saying I'm for or against the idea of full time refs but I'm sure the league has studied the issue and is acting on their best information. Agree - on all fronts, I was just throwing out ideas
Wayne Cubed Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 As I understand it they don't get paid as well as the other referee's. I believe I read in an article a while back that it was between $45,000-$60,000 for the 16 games. So most of them have jobs outside of the NFL, because they can obviously make more money throughout the year. Whereas MLB(who get paid the most) crews get upwards of $100,000. When you think about it, it makes sense. 16 games compared to 162. Although the NFL is America's hottest sport, you would think the refs could get paid a lot more.
Tcali Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 We place a enormous amount of blame on Ref calls, but correct me please. Aren't they parttimers. By that unlike officials in other sports they are not solely employed year round by the NFL. They actually go their separate ways instead of viewing tape together throughout the week to improve their skills. Pass interference.Offensive holding.--Unless its a mugging should rarely be called. Ruins the game. A ticky tack bump of the receiver on a long pass shouldnt result in a 50 yard penalty. A mugging should be looked at differently. A holding waaay away from where a play is shouldn't necessarily be enforced. etc. Are these the type of things that can be improved with full time refs???perhaps. Replay could be greatly helped if they had a few more cameras at the game.-a multi-billion dollar league shouldn't be so cheap.-Could replay be helped by full time refs?? probably. A lot of this stuff could be improved with common sense and all the refs being on the same page. As you say maybe their part time status doesn't allow different ref crews to spend enough time together in meetings to coordinate and standardize their reffing.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 Agree - on all fronts, I was just throwing out ideas And I like the thought that the NFL would do whatever is necessary to have the most competent officiating possible. If only. Sometimes it appears that the officiating is so horrible that it's hard to imagine that it could be worse. BTW, the bad officiating trends I've noticed this year are 1) Fewer holding calls in pass protection 2) More holding calls on running plays 3) More defensive pass interference calls, and 4) Fewer offensive pass interference calls. I don't know if the numbers support this but it seems that way to me.
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 We place a enormous amount of blame on Ref calls, but correct me please. Aren't they parttimers. By that unlike officials in other sports they are not solely employed year round by the NFL. They actually go their separate ways instead of viewing tape together throughout the week to improve their skills. This article is from 2007, but I thought it gave some interesting details about what NFL officiating crews do: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-10-09-officials_N.htm
Fezmid Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 17 week season, 4 weeks post season, pro-bowl= 26 weeks in season) it seems theres things the could do to both improve quality currently and invest in the future. Most of the postseason and ProBowl doesn't require anywhere near as many refs as the regular season -- so you're down to 21 weeks. The whole part time vs full time is lame; MLB, NBA, and NHL refs screw up all the time and they're full time (remember NO GOAL?). And if the league is nudging things to make a better narrative, it doesn't matter if the refs are full time or part time.
Cookiemonster Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) As I understand it they don't get paid as well as the other referee's. I believe I read in an article a while back that it was between $45,000-$60,000 for the 16 games. So most of them have jobs outside of the NFL, because they can obviously make more money throughout the year. Whereas MLB(who get paid the most) crews get upwards of $100,000. When you think about it, it makes sense. 16 games compared to 162. Although the NFL is America's hottest sport, you would think the refs could get paid a lot more. Um, try like ten times that amount, more like $450,000-$600,000 for 16 games. Edited November 10, 2011 by Cookiemonster
CBD Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 Um, try like ten times that amount, more like $450,000-$600,000 for 16 games. Everything I've read says closer to the post you quoted. Do you have a link or anything showing your numbers?
erynthered Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 Everything I've read says closer to the post you quoted. Do you have a link or anything showing your numbers? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=what+do+nfl+referees+make&gbv=2&oq=what+do+NFL&aq=0&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=2125l5046l0l11265l11l10l0l0l0l0l609l1312l0.2.4-1.1l4l0
mead107 Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) Home address for any one that wants to send them letters. Office of the Blind 5 Bad Calls Lane Can't Get My Head Out of My Azz, Alaska. 06660 Edited November 10, 2011 by mead107
BillsFanInLV Posted November 10, 2011 Posted November 10, 2011 Cool story. I am stationed in Vegas and was visiting Buffalo the weekend of the Raiders game this year. After the game, I headed to the airport to fly out and decided to grab some wings and beer(s) at the Anchor bar while at the airport terminal. Sitting next to me at the bar, were some well dressed guys, drinking and talking football. Sort-of being loud and talkative. A closer examination (and a bit of eavesdropping) and I realized that they were the refs from the Bills/Raiders game from just a few hours earlier. I struck up a conversation about the game with the gents, and the lead ref made some interesting comments. First, he said that the Bills/Raiders game played that day was one of the most exciting games he (they) had refereed in a while. They all agreed that they just 'love' a great game, and love to ref a game that is thrilling with huge implications. Once again, they said that the game that day was incredible! Also, they all agreed that Fitz was a hell of a QB. Particularly noting the fact that he was consistantly putting the ball through "tiny windows" and was "the real deal" as they put it. ---It was great to hear this so early in the season. I asked how they all began their NFL officiating careers and they all stated that they began Refereeing little league, some moved on the High School and College football, while others went to officiating school and were eventually hired by the NFL. I asked if they had a favorite team......solely as men and fans of the game, not as refs. ---They all looked at eachother silently and uncomfortably for a moment before all saying "No, we don't have a favorite team" (probably the Politically Correct answer) After a brief silence, an official exclaimed "I'm a fan of the Zebras!" -- Everyone laughed and the uncomfortable moment was over. It's obvious they try to mitigate leakage of information such as 'favorite team' or 'favorite player' to the public. I also saw Solomon Wilcox at the anchor Bar with the refs that day and again in Detroit on a connecting flight. It seems the announcers, refs and NFL films crews all travel together and are somewhat 'close-knit' Just thought I'd share my referee story. GO BILLS!
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