Dave_In_Norfolk Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Former Fox News host and now governor of Ohio John Kashish is likely to see his anti-union law go down in flames tomorrow. All the Fox news friends have been pouring money into the state to crush teachers, nurses, cops and firefighters but it looks like the good people of Ohio will have none of this.
BadgerVid Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 If the people of Ohio truly want their state to be bankrupted by public employee unions and the incestuous relationship between them and the bureaucrats with whom they supposedly "negotiate", then more power to them...they will get what they deserve. Interestingly, in Wisconsin, since the so called "anti-union" laws were passed, school districts have been able to hire additional teachers, cut class sizes and balance their budgets...while those "poor union members" are forced to pay a portion of their health and retirement costs. Work union...live poorer
B-Man Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 Former Fox News host and now governor of Ohio John Kashish is likely to see his anti-union law go down in flames tomorrow. All the Fox news friends have been pouring money into the state to crush teachers, nurses, cops and firefighters but it looks like the good people of Ohio will have none of this. My, my. Such hyperbole. Sadly the only true part of this rant is that the bill probably will go down to defeat. As to your slant on the money being spent, it is rather laughable.Opposition forces, under the banner “We Are Ohio,” had raised $30.6 million for their effort — and had spent $26.3 million — by the latest filing deadline. (Teachers’ unions alone had contributed $9.7 million.) By contrast, the pro-reform group, “Building a Better Ohio,” had raised only $7.6 million and had spent just $6 million. All eyes should be on Ohio tomorrow as voters decide whether to roll back Gov. John Kasich’s bold public-employee reforms. Passed this year, the much-needed course correction sharply curtailed collective-bargaining privileges for the state’s 350,000 taxpayer-funded workers, giving the state — facing an $8 billion shortfall — a fighting chance to get its budgetary house in order. It’s another battle in a war under way all across the nation. Just as in Wisconsin, where a similar law was the subject of a prolonged, anti-democratic wrangle that ultimately went the Republicans’ way, Big Labor has gone all out against reform. Well-funded organizers fanned out, gathering 1.3 million signatures to put a repeal measure, Issue 2, on the ballot. Sadly, the odds favor repeal. The pro-union group We Are Ohio has amassed a $24 million war chest to roll back Kasich’s sensible reforms — far larger than the rival Building a Better Ohio’s $8 million campaign in favor of them. A late-October poll showed repeal leading by 57 percent to 32 percent, and Kasich now ranks as the most unpopular US governor, with a 54 percent disapproval rating. My link
Wisconsin Bills Fan Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 If the people of Ohio truly want their state to be bankrupted by public employee unions and the incestuous relationship between them and the bureaucrats with whom they supposedly "negotiate", then more power to them...they will get what they deserve. Interestingly, in Wisconsin, since the so called "anti-union" laws were passed, school districts have been able to hire additional teachers, cut class sizes and balance their budgets...while those "poor union members" are forced to pay a portion of their health and retirement costs. Work union...live poorer Funny thing was badge, that during the recall elections in Wisconsin this summer none of the dem candidates brought up the evil, union busting act 10. The reason for this is because as you stated it helped school districts save money and lower property taxes more often than not. Oh how terrible!
Alaska Darin Posted November 7, 2011 Posted November 7, 2011 If you're keeping score at home, that's: FNGs: 3 Regurgitating Liberal Mouth Breather: 0
DC Tom Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 If you're keeping score at home, that's: FNGs: 3 Regurgitating Liberal Mouth Breather: 0 Yeah...but it's Dave. It's like beating up a kid in his fourth year of kindergarten.
B-Large Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 I struggle with the issue of Unions.... While I think at one point they served a very valuable purpose to protect workers from dangerous conditions and poor pay, today the seem to be more about power and control, and less about bring an honest negotiation to the table when the time comes. I can only imagine if the unions that represent thevschoolsvarev1/2 as bad as those who represent domestic auto workers, it must be ugly... How do Ohio school rank nationally, anybody know? ( yeah, do the work for me)
Buff_bills4ever Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 I struggle with the issue of Unions.... While I think at one point they served a very valuable purpose to protect workers from dangerous conditions and poor pay, today the seem to be more about power and control, and less about bring an honest negotiation to the table when the time comes. I can only imagine if the unions that represent thevschoolsvarev1/2 as bad as those who represent domestic auto workers, it must be ugly... How do Ohio school rank nationally, anybody know? ( yeah, do the work for me) I think public workers unions need to exist, especially for teachers. They're bosses are politicians and they work with children. People seem to think more with their hearts than with their brains when it comes to kids. But there is a limit. When the unions are negotiating directly with the top, small districts suffer immensely. Let local unions work with each district to get the benefits that work for everyone, not just the union heads in the State Capitol.
Alaska Darin Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 I wouldn't have a problem with Unions, especially for teachers, cops, and fire - if they could exist in reality. But they honestly think it's OK to negotiate things like "High 3" and all the little quirks they get in exchange for guaranteed vote percentages. It's the most absolute form of corruption in the democratic system. There are no protections for the taxpayers whatsoever and the bill is finally coming due. Ohio is going to !@#$ itself royally if they give in to this graft and they'll have their public school "educations" to blame. Soldier on, drones.
Dave_In_Norfolk Posted November 8, 2011 Author Posted November 8, 2011 If you're keeping score at home, that's: FNGs: 3 Regurgitating Liberal Mouth Breather: 0 Ha! Take the pathetic victories in your life where you can AD. I'm suppose to win against a mob of right wing ignorance? Only you would actually run around celebrating a victory....oops, "victory" like this Yeah...but it's Dave. It's like beating up a kid in his fourth year of kindergarten. Says the moron who lives on this website 24/7 When was the last time you experienced outside weather???
Wacka Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 When was the last time you were out of the basement??
Dave_In_Norfolk Posted November 8, 2011 Author Posted November 8, 2011 I wouldn't have a problem with Unions, especially for teachers, cops, and fire - if they could exist in reality. But they honestly think it's OK to negotiate things like "High 3" and all the little quirks they get in exchange for guaranteed vote percentages. It's the most absolute form of corruption in the democratic system. There are no protections for the taxpayers whatsoever and the bill is finally coming due. Ohio is going to !@#$ itself royally if they give in to this graft and they'll have their public school "educations" to blame. Soldier on, drones. Hyperbole? Attacking the government workers is just a sad, lousy and hateful little thing to do. And clowns like you running around claiming the sky is going to fall if we don't crush the cops, teachers and firefighters is shameful. Let's just degrade the people who make our society run, the hockey coaches, the people that spend the days with our kids and care for our sick parents. Sure let's make them poorer, demoralized and feeling useless. Great idea! When was the last time you were out of the basement?? Oh crap! The basement, I have Togo toss my laundry in the dryer! Thanks man, I forget about that
DC Tom Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 Hyperbole? Attacking the government workers is just a sad, lousy and hateful little thing to do. And clowns like you running around claiming the sky is going to fall if we don't crush the cops, teachers and firefighters is shameful. Let's just degrade the people who make our society run, the hockey coaches, the people that spend the days with our kids and care for our sick parents. Sure let's make them poorer, demoralized and feeling useless. Great idea! I don't know what you're so upset about. One would think you'd enjoy the company.
Buff_bills4ever Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 Hyperbole? Attacking the government workers is just a sad, lousy and hateful little thing to do. And clowns like you running around claiming the sky is going to fall if we don't crush the cops, teachers and firefighters is shameful. Let's just degrade the people who make our society run, the hockey coaches, the people that spend the days with our kids and care for our sick parents. Sure let's make them poorer, demoralized and feeling useless. Great idea! Oh crap! The basement, I have Togo toss my laundry in the dryer! Thanks man, I forget about that I don't think he was attacking the teachers, police etc. More that he was attacking the union heads that bribe politicians with votes and campaign contributions for contracts that most small districts cannot afford. But don't let that distract you from your talking points.
Alaska Darin Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 Hyperbole? Attacking the government workers is just a sad, lousy and hateful little thing to do. And clowns like you running around claiming the sky is going to fall if we don't crush the cops, teachers and firefighters is shameful. Let's just degrade the people who make our society run, the hockey coaches, the people that spend the days with our kids and care for our sick parents. Sure let's make them poorer, demoralized and feeling useless. Great idea! If you're serious, you need professional help. If you're just a troll, then Bravo.
KD in CA Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) I struggle with the issue of Unions.... While I think at one point they served a very valuable purpose to protect workers from dangerous conditions and poor pay, today the seem to be more about power and control, and less about bring an honest negotiation to the table when the time comes. So what is there to 'struggle' with?? Yeah, they served a valuable purpose in the 19th century. Today they are nothing more than organized crime. Edited November 8, 2011 by KD in CT
Koko78 Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) I think public workers unions need to exist, especially for teachers. They're bosses are politicians and they work with children. People seem to think more with their hearts than with their brains when it comes to kids. But there is a limit. When the unions are negotiating directly with the top, small districts suffer immensely. Let local unions work with each district to get the benefits that work for everyone, not just the union heads in the State Capitol. The myth of the starving teacher is just that - a myth. Some of that is thanks to unions, no doubt about that. However, like all public sector unions they want more and more and more and more, and have the cash from mandatory union dues to pay off any elected "negotiator" that they need to keep the cash flowing. It became such a problem that it was bankrupting states like Wisconsin (and New York). To the teacher's unions, it was never about the kids. It's about using the kids to leverage more money to fill their coffers. It's amazing how now Wisconsin school districts suddenly have the money to hire new teachers, to reduce class sizes, to fund improvements, etc. Much of that is because Walker's law broke the union's ability to force school districts to solely deal with union-favored benefits providers at whatever inflated rates the benefits providers and their union colaborators decided to set. You would poop your pants if you had any idea how much taxpayer money is wasted by union bullcrap in school districts like Buffalo. I'd wager that the teachers themselves aren't that upset that they are no longer required to pay union dues out of every paycheck either. Edited November 8, 2011 by Koko78
Buff_bills4ever Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 The myth of the starving teacher is just that - a myth. Some of that is thanks to unions, no doubt about that. However, like all public sector unions they want more and more and more and more, and have the cash from mandatory union dues to pay off any elected "negotiator" that they need to keep the cash flowing. It became such a problem that it was bankrupting states like Wisconsin (and New York). To the teacher's unions, it was never about the kids. It's about using the kids to leverage more money to fill their coffers. It's amazing how now Wisconsin school districts suddenly have the money to hire new teachers, to reduce class sizes, to fund improvements, etc. Much of that is because Walker's law broke the union's ability to force school districts to solely deal with union-favored benefits providers at whatever inflated rates the benefits providers and their union colaborators decided to set. You would poop your pants if you had any idea how much taxpayer money is wasted by union bullcrap in school districts like Buffalo. I'd wager that the teachers themselves aren't that upset that they are no longer required to pay union dues out of every paycheck either. I still believe that individual teachers need protection to prevent politicians from dictating what they teach. I agree however that their benefits are completely out of line, and the power that union heads have in state capitols must stop.
Koko78 Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 I still believe that individual teachers need protection to prevent politicians from dictating what they teach. I agree however that their benefits are completely out of line, and the power that union heads have in state capitols must stop. Unions have never dictated or negotiated curriculum; they only deal with working conditions.
OCinBuffalo Posted November 8, 2011 Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) I'm suppose to win against a mob of right wing ignorance? No, actually, you aren't supposed to win. Or, at least I doubt anyone here ever expects you to win, even if you are actually right. No Dave, you'll find a way to F it up, in perfect far-left form. Example: look at OWS. They are going from having a sympathetic set of grievances....to putting kids in front of doors so they can be stepped on by 250 lb men. That is you Dave. Even if you have a point, your stupid ideology will get the better of you, and you will FAIL. ================================= Regarding unions: It is no longer about representing the worker. It is now about pushing for political change. This has drastically reduced the number of union employees. The concept of a union is fundamentally flawed: treating everybody the same is an aberration. People aren't the same. Yet, the unions don't even want to consider this reality. Instead, all they see is a volume business. Once upon a time, you actually had to earn your way into a union. Now? All that is required is heartbeat. The more numbers the union can get, the more $, and therefore, the more power. The unions have caused their own problems, but I am not sure how they could have avoided some of them. For example, if you sell workers on paying dues so that they will get a better deal, then you have to deliver. But, if your political allies are also pushing the entitlement society for 60 years then a perfect storm is created: every deal you get has to be better than the last, or else you aren't delivering. That's difficult to deal with, because sooner or later you just can't get any more, or if you get too much, like GM, you bankrupt the company. The other problem is: the unions have been so successful in forcing government to do what they want...that government now does 80% of what unions used to do. It's the mother of ironies: the union bosses have worked themselves out of a job There is no doubt that unions are responsible for creating the business environment we have today, which places a high value on employee safety, readiness, and career-oriented, long term thinking. The days of abusing employees, by and large, are in the past, and the unions were a huge part of that. There is no doubt that unions were an important part of our history.... ...but so was the buggy whip. The unions need to adapt, or they will be gone. Edited November 8, 2011 by OCinBuffalo
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