RuntheDamnBall Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Exactly, but it's never treated as such because it's membership is nearly 100% BLACK MUSLIM rather than WHITE CHRISTIAN. 175086[/snapback] Joe, can you read the Bible and find anything that would qualify a white-supremacist as a Christian? Please. Extremists are so far from the good in their religion that they evade the religion itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 folks seeing meanings that aren't there. 175495[/snapback] I know what you're saying, but it's easy for you to say because you aren't African-American. I make no claim to speak for that population, but you have to realize that the meaning of the symbol is contextual. In the context of American racism, slavery, and what people have used the confederate flag for, it is a pretty violent symbol for blacks. In Greek mythology, the swastika is pretty harmless. In more recent history, it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Which means, if someone wants to point out to the world that they think your a racist pig for displaying it...well, even if it was only a statement for states' rights, you should have known what you were getting into. 177633[/snapback] I think we would all be giving a girl who spent four years on her prom dress a little too much credit to believe she was considering states' rights. If she knows where her state capital is, I'm sending her a check in the mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 I know what you're saying, but it's easy for you to say because you aren't African-American.I make no claim to speak for that population, but you have to realize that the meaning of the symbol is contextual. In the context of American racism, slavery, and what people have used the confederate flag for, it is a pretty violent symbol for blacks. In Greek mythology, the swastika is pretty harmless. In more recent history, it isn't. 181667[/snapback] The First Amendment wasn't put in to protect speech you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 The First Amendment wasn't put in to protect speech you like. 181720[/snapback] No, it wasn't. And the KKK has been allowed to have marches and even the ACLU has protected white supremacists' free speech, which does bother me, but I understand the right. What do you think about the limit on free speech regarding joking about bombs in an airport, or threats on an official's life? Where does the border lie? I think free speech is a right worth protecting. But I also think any group that uses that right with the ultimate intention of harming other human beings (like a white supremacist group) might merit consideration for being monitored. As far as the prom dress goes, it's ridiculous, and the girl should be able to go to the prom, look dumb, and be applauded by anyone dumb enough to think it's a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 No, it wasn't. And the KKK has been allowed to have marches and even the ACLU has protected white supremacists' free speech, which does bother me, but I understand the right. What do you think about the limit on free speech regarding joking about bombs in an airport, or threats on an official's life? Where does the border lie? I think free speech is a right worth protecting. But I also think any group that uses that right with the ultimate intention of harming other human beings (like a white supremacist group) might merit consideration for being monitored. As far as the prom dress goes, it's ridiculous, and the girl should be able to go to the prom, look dumb, and be applauded by anyone dumb enough to think it's a good idea. 182803[/snapback] The border lies where the Supreme Court has pretty much put it. No "Fire" in the crowded theater. People simply don't have the right not to be offended and giving this girl 5 seconds of negative pub only spurns more followers to her "cause". Trust me, if this girl has anything to do with WS groups the FBI and various other agencies already have a jacket on her. Uncle Sam has been watching for a LONG time. I'm far more afraid of that than some redneck getting off on an old flag dress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 I'm far more afraid of that than some redneck getting off on an old flag dress. 182915[/snapback] Hey, hey, hey! Some redneck getting off on the dress is for AFTER the prom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Hey, hey, hey! Some redneck getting off on the dress is for AFTER the prom. 182928[/snapback] Since I've seen her, let me just say: "Poor bastard, love is only a light switch away." Ick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Since I've seen her, let me just say: "Poor bastard, love is only a light switch away." Ick. 182938[/snapback] No kidding. I could maybe get that drunk, but I don't think so. I mentioned before, earlier in the thread, that many southerner's have a lot of justifiable pride in their heritage. I'm not saying at ALL that this was the bimbo's motivation, probably far from it- but non-issues like this going the wrong way 1st ammendment wise can have a trickle down effect. The stars and bars don't automatically mean slavery connotations, unless, apparantly, you are from the north. Most of my people not living in the United States died in WW2 at the hands of the Nazis (not the German military). They had the great misfortune of being farmers in an area that Hitler desired in 1939. Who wasn't killed outright, got sent to camps so that German farmers could use the land. They were Catholic, not Jewish. There was more to the "Holocaust" than the Jews, but that's another thread. I could also give a sh-- less about a swastica. I'm not "offended". This stuff could well be a non issue if folks let it die. But, we have to keep all of it alive because of stupid people so lost in political correctness that they fail to see they are contributing to the problem, not helping to solve it. Is "Big Picture" a lost concept in our society? Sure seems to be. A nation ruled by vignettes. Sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 I could also give a sh-- less about a swastica. I'm not "offended". This stuff could well be a non issue if folks let it die. But, we have to keep all of it alive because of stupid people so lost in political correctness that they fail to see they are contributing to the problem, not helping to solve it. Is "Big Picture" a lost concept in our society? Sure seems to be. A nation ruled by vignettes. Sucks. 182964[/snapback] Know we want the big picture? Maybe if you had a serial number tatooed on your "scrote" you'd think differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RabidBillsFanVT Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 No kidding. I could maybe get that drunk, but I don't think so. I mentioned before, earlier in the thread, that many southerner's have a lot of justifiable pride in their heritage. I'm not saying at ALL that this was the bimbo's motivation, probably far from it- but non-issues like this going the wrong way 1st ammendment wise can have a trickle down effect. The stars and bars don't automatically mean slavery connotations, unless, apparantly, you are from the north. Most of my people not living in the United States died in WW2 at the hands of the Nazis (not the German military). They had the great misfortune of being farmers in an area that Hitler desired in 1939. Who wasn't killed outright, got sent to camps so that German farmers could use the land. They were Catholic, not Jewish. There was more to the "Holocaust" than the Jews, but that's another thread. I could also give a sh-- less about a swastica. I'm not "offended". This stuff could well be a non issue if folks let it die. But, we have to keep all of it alive because of stupid people so lost in political correctness that they fail to see they are contributing to the problem, not helping to solve it. Is "Big Picture" a lost concept in our society? Sure seems to be. A nation ruled by vignettes. Sucks. 182964[/snapback] Justifiable pride in a heritage that involves the continued use of slavery, the secession from the Union, Andersonville, Fort Pillow, Nathan Bedford Forrest, and lynching?? Come ON... WHO is keeping that 'heritage' alive?? The ones who display THAT FLAG, because THAT is what it truly stands for. Saying that flag stands for states rights is like saying the swastika stands for lebensraum!! Awww, the people who flaunt that flag for pride and to keep that disgusting part of history alive because of 'heritage'?? All it is is divisive, and represents a REVOLUTIONARY group that was put down... it is OVER, has been over, and yet people WANT to keep this division alive and well. Our heritage is the AMERICAN flag, not some other flag! This is AMERICA, not the CONFEDERATE States of America. Free speech applies to me as well, and I say it is all a crock of shiite... this is a time where we SHOULD be united, not bringing up the sorry past that that flag accomplishes. THE people KEEPING IT ALIVE are the ones who flaunt that flag, NOT PC people!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 You haven't spent much time living in Georgia, have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RabidBillsFanVT Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 You haven't spent much time living in Georgia, have you? 183390[/snapback] No, but I did live in North Carolina for many years, as well as Virginia. I have lived in the midwest, southeast, and the northeast. I have seen the bumper stickers with the insults and that flag on them that creates this whole divisive attitude, and I get PO'd... who wouldn't, when someone tries to keep this shiite alive??? I can honestly say I have NEVER, EVER seen a sticker with an American flag that says 'If you love this flag, then you'll return to Dixieland', or 'I'd rather be shootin' Rebels'???? Here it is, plain as day... the MAIN reason why I get PO'd over this thing. Flying it is one thing... the words next to it are another: Rebel Store: Bumper Stickers (the bottom half has some particularly offensive ones) Fighting terrorism since 1861?!?! Funny how people can call secession LEGAL(which is totally revisionist!), and the constitution suddenly applies to free speech to people who WANTED to secede from the very Union that held the Constitution! Free speech applies to me as well, and so I am exercising it RIGHT NOW. Go ahead, fly the flag, great... but if you throw it in my face, I'm gonna say something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RabidBillsFanVT Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 THIS ARTICLE puts into EXACT words how I feel, without my rabid emotion. Please read the whole thing... it's all right there... MANNERS, not bans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Justifiable pride in a heritage that involves the continued use of slavery, the secession from the Union, Andersonville, Fort Pillow, Nathan Bedford Forrest, and lynching?? Come ON... WHO is keeping that 'heritage' alive?? The ones who display THAT FLAG, because THAT is what it truly stands for. Saying that flag stands for states rights is like saying the swastika stands for lebensraum!! Awww, the people who flaunt that flag for pride and to keep that disgusting part of history alive because of 'heritage'?? All it is is divisive, and represents a REVOLUTIONARY group that was put down... it is OVER, has been over, and yet people WANT to keep this division alive and well. Our heritage is the AMERICAN flag, not some other flag! This is AMERICA, not the CONFEDERATE States of America. Free speech applies to me as well, and I say it is all a crock of shiite... this is a time where we SHOULD be united, not bringing up the sorry past that that flag accomplishes. THE people KEEPING IT ALIVE are the ones who flaunt that flag, NOT PC people!!! 183377[/snapback] Spoken like the typical North Eastern liberal. Tell us again how much you love freedom of speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelissaInPhilly Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 I know what you're saying, but it's easy for you to say because you aren't African-American.I make no claim to speak for that population, but you have to realize that the meaning of the symbol is contextual. In the context of American racism, slavery, and what people have used the confederate flag for, it is a pretty violent symbol for blacks. In Greek mythology, the swastika is pretty harmless. In more recent history, it isn't. 181667[/snapback] Well, I am African American and I do find the Confederate flag offensive. To me it doesn't symbolize heritage, just hatred, violence, and racism. I don't see too many in the city, but when you hit rural Pennsylvania, they're all over the place. Who was it said that between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia lies Alabama? However, I can't stop people from flying or wearing it. It's a free country, and that means that we have to tolerate things that we don't approve of, or find offensive or hurtful. I do not think, however, it should be part of a state flag, or flown over a state capitol, when it symbolizes something so painful to many, many people. Actually, I think the whole thing is sort of petty. Thousands of innocents have died in Asia, and people are worried about a dress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelissaInPhilly Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Justifiable pride in a heritage that involves the continued use of slavery, the secession from the Union, Andersonville, Fort Pillow, Nathan Bedford Forrest, and lynching?? Come ON... WHO is keeping that 'heritage' alive?? The ones who display THAT FLAG, because THAT is what it truly stands for. Saying that flag stands for states rights is like saying the swastika stands for lebensraum!! Awww, the people who flaunt that flag for pride and to keep that disgusting part of history alive because of 'heritage'?? All it is is divisive, and represents a REVOLUTIONARY group that was put down... it is OVER, has been over, and yet people WANT to keep this division alive and well. Our heritage is the AMERICAN flag, not some other flag! This is AMERICA, not the CONFEDERATE States of America. Free speech applies to me as well, and I say it is all a crock of shiite... this is a time where we SHOULD be united, not bringing up the sorry past that that flag accomplishes. THE people KEEPING IT ALIVE are the ones who flaunt that flag, NOT PC people!!! 183377[/snapback] Thank you, my brotha! Speaking of Nathan Bedford Forrest, here's an interesting article about this southern "hero": http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport...cle.jsp?aid=518 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Joe, can you read the Bible and find anything that would qualify a white-supremacist as a Christian? Please. Extremists are so far from the good in their religion that they evade the religion itself. 181663[/snapback] You know what I meant. To simplify: remove CHRISTIAN and MUSLIM from the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RabidBillsFanVT Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Thank you, my brotha! Speaking of Nathan Bedford Forrest, here's an interesting article about this southern "hero": http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport...cle.jsp?aid=518 184320[/snapback] Nathan Bedford Forrest is a military hero, but nothing beyond that. If he was alive today, he would have been tried as a war criminal, and been convicted though. No problem.. I just know that nothing good can come from using that flag to throw the past in people's faces, and just look what trouble it causes when used the way people use it. I never, ever said I was ever in favor of banning it or prevent it from being flown... I am very outspoken when I feel it is used in the worst possible ways, though... let me give you an example from my own heritage... I would NEVER condone a sticker with a Quebec flag on it with 'English go home', or 'Kill them Anglos', or 'Free Quebec-Kick the Anglos Out'... THAT is not heritage, THAT is CRAP. Why can't Southerners fly their flag with pride and not throw it people's faces, or wear a stupid dress, knowing what it would cause by doing it at a school? It all comes down to what is right when exercising rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Anyone who wonders why the Confederate Flag evokes such strong emotions ought to watch Rosewood, it's on STARZ this month. I saw it when it first came out and was horrified. I Tivo'd it for my daughter to watch - as a teen recently moved North from TX she's coming out with that "proud Southern heritage" sh-- to try to impress her friends. This ought to cure her of that. There are plenty of Southerners who have accomplished amazing things and made great contributions to society, but I can't think of one who'd wrap him or herself in the Confederate flag. When I was in high school kids drew swastikas and confederate flags on their notebooks to indicate their teen rebellion. Most outgrew it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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