B-Large Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 The problem with libertarianism (and it isnt a big problem) is that I think it short changes systemic problems and presupposes a "fairness" (for lack of a better term) that doesnt exist. Its wholly possible to construct a society where there is government intervention that results in MORE liberty, not less. Furthermore, the entire philosophical backbone of the United States (and its constitution) is what justifies attempts to create a better system. I'm not saying that the government always achieves its goals (of course it doesnt) but that doesnt necessarily entail a scope too broad but, instead, implies a failure of performance. KRC, a former mod here and occasional poster, has a great read on the problem with the Liberatrian Party (different from the philosophy). But in essense, it's disastrously disorganized. My criticism is that it gets bogged down in issues like pot that don't really matter, and also loves to tout its extreme solutions (shut down all welfare tomorrow), instead of recognizing that its goals (less government) have to be incrementally enacted. From my understanding of Libertarian platform, I get the impression there beef is not government in general, but a Federal government that operates outside of its intended scope (Larry and I have discussed this discussion before about "scope") and that most matters should be handled by the States... their stances are typically free market over goverment... And while I somewhat agree private markets could be integrated into many traditional programs, it has to be incremental change over time... Nothing makes people more crazy and feel more uncertain than radical change that as huge impacts on their lives.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Yeah, spending billions of dollars every year to lock people in cages for utilizing a relatively harmless and potentially even helpful plant really doesn't matter. It's not like this country was founded on the principle of individual liberty. And federal spending is clearly under control so that we don't have to worry about massive expenditures on cultural warfare. Personal freedom, oversized government agencies and out of control spending are clearly things that just don't matter in the United States. I don't think it's an issue that "doesn't matter" but it gets pushed to the front far too easily (much like "abortion") and that causes far too many to simply dismiss what is most likely the closest ideology to their actual core beliefs. Because most people are blindingly stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 (edited) Yeah, spending billions of dollars every year to lock people in cages for utilizing a relatively harmless and potentially even helpful plant really doesn't matter. It's not like this country was founded on the principle of individual liberty. And federal spending is clearly under control so that we don't have to worry about massive expenditures on cultural warfare. Personal freedom, oversized government agencies and out of control spending are clearly things that just don't matter in the United States. Easy there Cheech. I don't give a crap about drug laws and am all for legalization of anything you want. My point is that allowing legalization of pot to become your rallying cry dilutes a lot more important messages that the Libertarians could get traction on. In a practical Libertarian agenda, legalizing drugs should be on the list, but down it. But at every convention, the hemp T-shirts are everywhere. Edited November 8, 2011 by John Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Easy there Cheech. I don't give a crap about drug laws and am all for legalization of anything you want. My point is that allowing legalization of pot to become your rallying cry dilutes a lot more important messages that the Libertarians could get traction on. In a practical Libertarian agenda, legalizing drugs should be on the list, but down it. But at every convention, the hemp T-shirts are everywhere. If there's hemp shirts everywhere, it's probably less a function of it being the Libertarian battle cry and more a function of it being the only semi-coherent political movement that supports the position; the hopheads have nowhere else to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerVid Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 In a practical Libertarian agenda, legalizing drugs should be on the list, but down it. But at every convention, the hemp T-shirts are everywhere. Well, as a "practical" libertarian (small L...not a party member), and a guy who spent his career as an administrator of police and corrections, I will say that it is probably the most far reaching and important possible incremental step. As a practical libertarian and constitutionalist, I recognize we didn't get as far from constitutional government as we have overnight...it was done incrementally. If it is to be corrected, it will have to be corrected in the same manner. The "war on drugs" is very possibly both the most blatant intrusion on constitutional limitations and privileges and the most costly to the nation as a whole. Between the monetary cost to the taxpayers, the incredible and sometimes irresistable temptation vast amounts of illegal cash present to otherwise honest police officers who face the same financial challenges as anyone else and the incredible waste of lives of people who could be productive citizens had the government not outlawed something for which they have a need, I can't think of any single program of our over reaching government that causes more grief. Possibly the worldwide imperial military presence...but it at least has some positive effect now and then. Not to mention that from a possibility view, cutting the military to a true defense force is much less likely than ending federal prohibitions on drugs. We are reaching the point where enough families have been in some way negatively impacted by the war on drugs that more and more are seing that the supposed "cure" is far worse than the disease could ever be. Anyone interested in more info on this is welcome to check out an organization of which I have been a member for a few years...L.E.A.P. Yeah...I've been known to pontificate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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