maryland-bills-fan Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/10/31/2528355/a-look-at-all-9-sacks-by-the-bills-against-the-redskins They show an analysis of all 9 sacks and blame Beck for poor decisions on most of them. I'm not sure what to make of this. Did we get all those sacks because our defense is coming around or because Beck is bad? I think that it is a little of each and for reference would like to see an analysis of typical games where there are 2-3 sacks against better QB's. Anyway, being able to feast on the other team's poor play means we win games that we used to not be able to win.
aussiebills Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 my fav sack was when dareus chased him down and when Beck saw Dareus coming for him he just crapped himself and got hammared
billsfreak Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/10/31/2528355/a-look-at-all-9-sacks-by-the-bills-against-the-redskins They show an analysis of all 9 sacks and blame Beck for poor decisions on most of them. I'm not sure what to make of this. Did we get all those sacks because our defense is coming around or because Beck is bad? I think that it is a little of each and for reference would like to see an analysis of typical games where there are 2-3 sacks against better QB's. Anyway, being able to feast on the other team's poor play means we win games that we used to not be able to win. Not to take anything away from the defense, but Beck has hardly played in the NFL, and it was quite obvious. Would we have gotten 9 sacks against a veteran QB, probably not, but as bad as the QB pressure has been all year, playing against an inexperienced QB and bad OL might jump start the defense. Actually, the last few games, Fitz has taken a couple sacks that he shouldn't have either, but he usually does it trying to make a play, when he should be just getting rid of the ball.
Dorkington Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Coverage was decent, Beck held on to the ball too long, and we got pressure. It's pretty easy to see all three of those things adding up to a lot of sacks.
eball Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Not to take anything away from the defense, but Beck has hardly played in the NFL, and it was quite obvious. Would we have gotten 9 sacks against a veteran QB, probably not, but as bad as the QB pressure has been all year, playing against an inexperienced QB and bad OL might jump start the defense. Actually, the last few games, Fitz has taken a couple sacks that he shouldn't have either, but he usually does it trying to make a play, when he should be just getting rid of the ball. The two sacks Fitz took on Sunday were completely acceptable IMO. The Bills had a comfortable lead and he didn't try to force the ball; the look he wanted wasn't there so he ate the ball (and clock) rather than risk a momentum-changing turnover. It's a different story if the Bills are behind or in a close game; then, I want Fitz to be getting rid of it. As for the OP, there's no question Beck was overmatched, but from the start of the game it was obvious how much push the Bills were generating up the middle. That's a QB-killing scenario no matter who is behind C.
billsfreak Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 The two sacks Fitz took on Sunday were completely acceptable IMO. The Bills had a comfortable lead and he didn't try to force the ball; the look he wanted wasn't there so he ate the ball (and clock) rather than risk a momentum-changing turnover. It's a different story if the Bills are behind or in a close game; then, I want Fitz to be getting rid of it. As for the OP, there's no question Beck was overmatched, but from the start of the game it was obvious how much push the Bills were generating up the middle. That's a QB-killing scenario no matter who is behind C. Glad you corrected me, I was under the impression that taking a sack was a bad thing, regardless of the score? I thought that if there were no open receivers, a QB always is taught to get rid of the ball to avoid a sack, guess I was wrong. (hint:sarcasm intended)
eball Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Glad you corrected me, I was under the impression that taking a sack was a bad thing, regardless of the score? I thought that if there were no open receivers, a QB always is taught to get rid of the ball to avoid a sack, guess I was wrong. (hint:sarcasm intended) While I understand and appreciate the sarcasm, there's another point to be made: I think the concept of "getting rid of the ball" is more complicated than the average fan perceives. Intentional grounding is a killer, and if the QB doesn't get the ball out of bounds there's the risk of an INT. It's not always a bad play to "accept" the sack, depending on the circumstances.
FLFan Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 This guy actually did an impressive analysis, and one I would not disagree with. My sense watching the game was the real problem was Beck. I am not taking away from the Bills effort on D, but clearly there were plays to be made by a good QB. I think this really highlights the success of Fitz in the Bills offense. He recognizes coverages and rush schemes, understands where to go with the ball, and makes quick decisions. Beck's performance Sunday reminded me of Trent Edwards - the polar opposite of what we have in Fitz right now. I cannot believe that Shanahan thinks this guy gives them the best chance to win.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 I am sure the Patriots, Fins, Jets, etc. were really bemoaning the decades worth of sacks they got on Rob Johnson, JP Losman, and Trent Edwards too... We finally get to play a QB that hangs on to the ball and looks like a deer in headlights; let's enjoy it.
eball Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 This guy actually did an impressive analysis, and one I would not disagree with. My sense watching the game was the real problem was Beck. I am not taking away from the Bills effort on D, but clearly there were plays to be made by a good QB. I think this really highlights the success of Fitz in the Bills offense. He recognizes coverages and rush schemes, understands where to go with the ball, and makes quick decisions. Beck's performance Sunday reminded me of Trent Edwards - the polar opposite of what we have in Fitz right now. I cannot believe that Shanahan thinks this guy gives them the best chance to win. Look at his options.
The Big Cat Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Matt Cassell Jason Campbell Tom Brady Andy Dalton Mike Vick Eli Manning John Beck The John Beck led offense is exponentially inferior to any of the ones our defense had seen in the six games prior. The real question now is, where does the Mark Sanchez-led offense fit into this bunch??
OCinBuffalo Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) It was a great analysis, but the guy is missing some things: 1. The pocket was forcibly collapsed almost every play. It's hard to keep your eyes where they are supposed to be, if its also readily apparent that things are closing in around you. The delay in trying to attend to both, along with the fact that our pass coverage was good, certainly caused problems for Beck. And, this guy correctly identified the cumulative effect of seeing the pocket collapse over and over = happy feet. 2. We had 9 sacks from 8 different players. So, there wasn't one guy/area for Beck to key on and shift protection to. This guy is expecting Beck to understand every player on our team and their strengths and weaknesses. There are only a very few QBs who do that on a consistent basis, and those guys are in the top 5. The balance of our defense was just as key as Beck's happy feet. 3. Beck's O line could have helped him on multiple occasions, but they, in Chanspeak, got whipped. In every "50/50" instance, we won the battle. Their O line could have done more to win some of those battles, but every time Beck was in reach, we got him. 4. Play action? Here's a hint: you have to be able to RUN the ball, for play action fakes to work, pal. That is not Beck's fault. They did not get 1 first down running the ball. They could not run against us on any down, really. So, WTF did they expect when they tried to run play action? What they got was our guys in space staying disciplined in their roles and covering their assigned areas, or, our guys knocking the F out of the man in front of them. Nobody bought the fake, and all of them were constantly closing in on Beck. I understand wishing to blame the QB...but this guy has to admit that his line was physically tossed around this past game. Nobody could block Moats, and he was the root cause of many of the D line getting sacks. In running away from Moats, Beck ran right into them. Edited November 1, 2011 by OCinBuffalo
billsfreak Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Matt Cassell Jason Campbell Tom Brady Andy Dalton Mike Vick Eli Manning John Beck The John Beck led offense is exponentially inferior to any of the ones our defense had seen in the six games prior. The real question now is, where does the Mark Sanchez-led offense fit into this bunch?? The Jets may not be living up to the hype (although they are just one game behind us), but they are obviously much better than the Redskins. I think the most we can hope for from the pass rush is to put pressure on Sanchez (I don't expect many sacks), and force him into another game with multiple interceptions, and bad decisions.
DaveinElma Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 The Bills destroyed Beck in Miami a few years ago too.
zow2 Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 I said it all last week that Beck was the worst QB I've ever seen in that MIami game a few years ago. He's better now but still not even close to being a quality, Starting NFL QB. Kyle Shanahan coveted Beck coming out of BYU and when he had a chance to get him off the Ravens scrap heap last year they got him. Kyle convinced his dad to give him a shot. Well, i'd rather have Grossman. He may throw for 2 or 3 int's but he'll get you 2 or 3 TD's as well. Beck is a nice guy, but just doesn't have the NFL smarts and vision to be a quality QB.
ColdBlueNorth Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Matt Cassell Jason Campbell Tom Brady Andy Dalton Mike Vick Eli Manning John Beck The John Beck led offense is exponentially inferior to any of the ones our defense had seen in the six games prior. The real question now is, where does the Mark Sanchez-led offense fit into this bunch?? There is no denying your point, but one thing that Chan stressed was that he and his staff felt that the defense was getting good pressure and that many of the QBs we have faced were throwing into coverage because they were trying to avoid the sack and our interception totals (with the exception of the Giants game where we did not generate enough pressure or stop the run) were leading the league. I could see an inexperienced QB warned about our ball-hawking secondary probably was a bit tentative making any tight throws and took the sacks instead. With McGee back and playing at a high level we have better downfield coverage as well so Beck took a few coverage sacks. Shanny Jr. should shorten up those routes though, that o-line cannot protect that long and most in the league cannot hold blocks past 3 ticks.
The Big Cat Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 There is no denying your point, but one thing that Chan stressed was that he and his staff felt that the defense was getting good pressure and that many of the QBs we have faced were throwing into coverage because they were trying to avoid the sack and our interception totals (with the exception of the Giants game where we did not generate enough pressure or stop the run) were leading the league. I could see an inexperienced QB warned about our ball-hawking secondary probably was a bit tentative making any tight throws and took the sacks instead. With McGee back and playing at a high level we have better downfield coverage as well so Beck took a few coverage sacks. Shanny Jr. should shorten up those routes though, that o-line cannot protect that long and most in the league cannot hold blocks past 3 ticks. I have been saying for weeks now--and I've been getting flamed for it--that our so called "horrendous, non-existant" pass rush was a thing of myth, that we were adequately rushing the passer, just not generating sacks. Nobody ever acknowledged the interceptions we've forced as any indication of our pass-rush success. To boot, we've faced a slew of savvy quarterbacks who are not mistake prone nor easy to sack. And Eli happened to have a particularly good game against us (even for Eli). So, believe me. I'm right there with you.
Kelly the Dog Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) To me, it was a combination of about five things working at once, and it usually is. 1] The Redskins WR were just blanketed the entire game, partly because they stink and were without Moss (and partly Cooley although Davis is very good), and partly from a good game plan we ran. 2] The Redskins OL was terrible, partly because they suck, plus Trent Williams was out, plus they were completely inexperienced and overmatched in the middle against a guy like Dareus, who had a great game. 3] The Redskins couldn't run a lick, partly because they were hurt and partly because we played the run well. 4] Beck held the ball way too long on almost every sack, partly because he sucks, partly because no one was open, partly because the Bills out-played the line and we had a good defensive game plan that confused him, with different players they haven't scouted much. 5] The Bills offense was moving the ball and scoring, which made them pass more, which made it more difficult to pass. The majority of the sacks came in the second half when the Skins were scrambling, literally and figuratively. Edited November 1, 2011 by Kelly the Dog
Spiderweb Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Coverage was decent, Beck held on to the ball too long, and we got pressure. It's pretty easy to see all three of those things adding up to a lot of sacks. Sacks often require both good coverage by secondary and the rush combined. I for one am pleased that McGee is back. He's been playing well.
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