truth on hold Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) Republican legislators are resisting any kind of tax or public assistance for a new vikings stadium. Maybe this comes back to hurt bills in buffalo by setting a precedent and It's indicative of a changing political environment. I find it hard to argue with their position. http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=7156624 Edited October 28, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Unfortunately, not all teams can fund their own stadiums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Unfortunately, not all teams can fund their own stadiums. And even those that do get some form of government assistance, usually in the form of road and infrastructure improvements. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) Spending a billion dollars of taxpayer money on a stadium is an absolute disgrace, in any market. Any politician that signs off on such a deal should be executed in the public square. Anyone who can afford to buy a pro football team can damn well afford to build their own stadium. Edited October 28, 2011 by KD in CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Start saying goodbye to the small and mid market teams and say hello to multiple NY/Boston/LA/Big Market teams As bad as it sounds to be helping oput these million/billionaires by helping pay for stadiums or upgrades to them, by not helping, what is their reasoning for keeping their product (the sports franchise) in that area? If you don't support your government helping fund some of the upgrades/stadiums, then you better not be mad when they end up leaving for places that will Sports franchises and stadiums bring in alot of revenue into these areas, they should be entitled to some assistance from the governments to make the places better and help generate more tax revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The AntiFin Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Republican legislators are resisting any kind of tax or public assistance for a new vikings stadium. Maybe this comes back to hurt bills in buffalo but I hope they hold their ground. NFL needs to get a wake up call that every city in America isn't there to fund there profit making activities with tax dollars. http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=7156624 "All of it comes as Democratic Gov. Mark Dayton's self-imposed deadline for crafting a stadium plan approaches." The Vikings are trying to bully the Minnesota Legislature. So is the governor. So is the mayor. It appears the Dems are caving. The Republicans are standing firm on their pledge to not raise taxes. It's the same game of chicken that happens on a multitude of issues in a multitude of cities on a daily basis. If the Vikings leave, it's their own fault. They're the ones trying to force the State's hand. It's like a bratty kid who throws a tantrum because he doesn't get the video game he wants. The parents -- rightfully so -- don't buy him that game until he behaves. I find it amusing that all Republicans are considered "Tea Partiers" by some. Conservative Jim Kelly likely disagrees. Wouldn't it be ironic if he ends up leading an investment group that buys the Bills? Darn Wall Street! Darn capitalism. Occupy NOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) I was always one the boat of screw the owners, if they can afford a team they can afford the stadium as well. But you also have to look at what that teams brings to the community in tax dollars. Think about how many millions in taxes the team brings in over the years to the state/city. maybe someone has some type of analysis? If i am wrong would love to see the evidence either way. Edited October 28, 2011 by atlbillsfan1975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endless Ike Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Start saying goodbye to the small and mid market teams and say hello to multiple NY/Boston/LA/Big Market teams As bad as it sounds to be helping oput these million/billionaires by helping pay for stadiums or upgrades to them, by not helping, what is their reasoning for keeping their product (the sports franchise) in that area? If you don't support your government helping fund some of the upgrades/stadiums, then you better not be mad when they end up leaving for places that will Sports franchises and stadiums bring in alot of revenue into these areas, they should be entitled to some assistance from the governments to make the places better and help generate more tax revenue. Then start saying goodbye to a national fanbase...if the NFL wants a national fanbase they need to have teams outside of the top 10 or 15 markets. If the NFL has to chip-in for a stadium than so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 I was always one the boat of screw the owners, if they can afford a team they can afford the stadium as well. But you also have to look at what that teams brings to the community in tax dollars. Think about how many millions in taxes the team brings in over the years to the state/city. maybe someone has some type of analysis? If i am wrong would love to see the evidence either way. If keeping a team requires a tax increase it's clearly not in taxpayers interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBD Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) I was always one the boat of screw the owners, if they can afford a team they can afford the stadium as well. But you also have to look at what that teams brings to the community in tax dollars. Think about how many millions in taxes the team brings in over the years to the state/city. maybe someone has some type of analysis? If i am wrong would love to see the evidence either way. This was in the paper yesterday: Collins said that he will not publicly discuss the conversations he has had with the Bills but that he would be willing to continue to "absorb what could be considered a $1.5 million direct loss on my budget." How does he arrive at that figure? He said the county takes in about $10 million in sales tax each year related to the Bills. In turn, it passes on about $4.5 million of that sales tax revenue to towns, villages and school districts. That leaves about $5.5 million a year in Bills-related sales tax for the county -- about $1.5 million less than the subsidy the county pays to the Bills. http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article608931.ece Obviously it goes far beyond sales tax receipts (income tax from players/employees) related to the Bills, but that's something. Edited October 28, 2011 by Carey Bender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endless Ike Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I was always one the boat of screw the owners, if they can afford a team they can afford the stadium as well. But you also have to look at what that teams brings to the community in tax dollars. Think about how many millions in taxes the team brings in over the years to the state/city. maybe someone has some type of analysis? If i am wrong would love to see the evidence either way. www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv23n2/coates.pdf http://reason.com/blog/2010/09/08/the-stadium-welfare-rip-off It's a scam. There is no economic benefit to the host city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Start saying goodbye to the small and mid market teams and say hello to multiple NY/Boston/LA/Big Market teams As bad as it sounds to be helping oput these million/billionaires by helping pay for stadiums or upgrades to them, by not helping, what is their reasoning for keeping their product (the sports franchise) in that area? If you don't support your government helping fund some of the upgrades/stadiums, then you better not be mad when they end up leaving for places that will Sports franchises and stadiums bring in alot of revenue into these areas, they should be entitled to some assistance from the governments to make the places better and help generate more tax revenue. This is exactly right. Small market teams like Buffalo or MN do not survive without taxpayer help on the stadium infrastructure. I am not sure what the issues are in MN or if the team there is being reasonable, but in the case of Buffalo, unless the State and County pony up to keep that stadium at least competitive, there is no franchise in Western New York. They do not need a Jerry Jones style palace and are not asking for one - the local economy could not support it even if the team built it - they are asking for enough improvements to keep it viable long term. Of courwse, the taxpayers can "rebel" and chase them out. How would that be for the local economy and psyche? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) I was always one the boat of screw the owners, if they can afford a team hey can afford the stadium as well. But you also have to look at what that teams brings to the community in tax dollars. Think about how many millions in taxes the team brings in over the years to the state/city. maybe someone has some type of analysis? If i am wrong would love to see the evidence either way. Since you specifically asked for it: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/137337-bills-hire-firm-for-stadium-facelift/page__pid__2293731__st__120#entry2293731 You also might want to read these: http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/1997/06/09/story4.html http://www.brookings.edu/articles/1997/summer_taxes_noll.aspx Edited October 28, 2011 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I don't know... I'm kinda mixed about the idea. Fiscally speaking, it shouldn't occur, but isn't their a value in happiness? I know it's not an intrinsic value, but it certainly is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 There is a difference between a billion-dollar handout and making an investment. If an owner is willing to pony up a significant portion of the money to build a new stadium, a government could kick some in too in the form of user fees or bonds if they expect to earn enough return from the facility. Here in lovely Manchester, NH they built a 10K arena a few years back. The cranky yankees all pissed and moaned about wasting taxpayer money, yadda yadda. But the building was paid for by bonds that were paid off from the revenue the building generated. And the arena became the anchor of new downtown development in the form of hotels, restaurants and night clubs. Plus we have now have an AHL team filling 40+ dates, not to mention dozens of concerts and other shows. Even though the bonds were guaranteed by tax money, no taxes have gone to pay for the arena. In fact it was such a huge success they built a ball park a few years later and now we have the AA Blue Jays farm team here. Sometimes these things do work out. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Republican legislators are resisting any kind of tax or public assistance for a new vikings stadium. Maybe this comes back to hurt bills in buffalo by setting a precedent and It's indicative of a changing political environment. I find it hard to argue with their position. http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=7156624 Occupy the Metrodome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibuya Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) unless the Vikings generate billion of revenue in Minny then then It's hard to justify the means. However a tax increase is out of th equestion... Maybe a lottery that is voluntary with the proceeds going towards the stadium, but tax increases to keep a football team in ludicrous In Buffalo they are going to spend about $100 million, but they bring in close to $20 million - $25 million in tax revenues a year from the Bills operation.. Which means every 4 - 5 years you can put money into the stadium and it balances out.. it's a decent investment of tax money. Can Minnesota make $1 billion in tax revenues on a new stadium ? How long would it take ?? if the tax revenue is paid back over 20 years they might be able to justify it. That's a tall order... Edited October 28, 2011 by shibuya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 There is a difference between a billion-dollar handout and making an investment. If an owner is willing to pony up a significant portion of the money to build a new stadium, a government could kick some in too in the form of user fees or bonds if they expect to earn enough return from the facility. Here in lovely Manchester, NH they built a 10K arena a few years back. The cranky yankees all pissed and moaned about wasting taxpayer money, yadda yadda. But the building was paid for by bonds that were paid off from the revenue the building generated. And the arena became the anchor of new downtown development in the form of hotels, restaurants and night clubs. Plus we have now have an AHL team filling 40+ dates, not to mention dozens of concerts and other shows. Even though the bonds were guaranteed by tax money, no taxes have gone to pay for the arena. In fact it was such a huge success they built a ball park a few years later and now we have the AA Blue Jays farm team here. Sometimes these things do work out. PTR you may want to pay attention to them, they have alot of good players coming through the system no one wants to just give money to the rich to make them richer, but you can't expect the rich to just invest their money in your area without them getting some kind of a deal to do it. Just like the majority of all of us hard working Joes, most of us will always look for the best deals on something before we pay out our money for it. Why should it be different for people with more money? They didn't get rich by throwing their money around, most got it by investing wisely. Sports franchises and Stadiums/arena bring revenue into municipalities, so using tax paper money to help pay for these facilities is a bit of an investment on the part of local governments unless the Vikings generate billion of revenue in Minny then then It's hard to justify the means. However a tax increase is out of th equestion... Maybe a lottery that is voluntary with the proceeds going towards the stadium, but tax increases to keep a football team in ludicrous In Buffalo they are going to spend about $100 million, but they bring in close to $20 million - $25 million in tax revenues a year from the Bills operation.. Which means every 4 - 5 years you can put money into the stadium and it balances out.. it's a decent investment of tax money. Can Minnesota make $1 billion in tax revenues on a new stadium ? How long would it take ?? if the tax revenue is paid back over 20 years they might be able to justify it. That's a tall order... Are the Vikings asking for the entire thing to be funded by the city and state? I thought the most was about half As for your comparison with Buffalo, its not an investment for the City if the are putting in the same amount they are receiving all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I was always one the boat of screw the owners, if they can afford a team they can afford the stadium as well. But you also have to look at what that teams brings to the community in tax dollars. Think about how many millions in taxes the team brings in over the years to the state/city. maybe someone has some type of analysis? If i am wrong would love to see the evidence either way. The local Hilton also brings in lots of tax revenue. Should our tax dollars help them redo their hotel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 well the last time i've checked the Vikings were not playing on a Wal Mart parking... Building stadiums is something building stadiums that are "obsolete" 20 years later is something else... especially when those "obsolete" stadiums (it's not the case in the Vikings case i agree) are places that have a real soul and are filled with history... (i'm not a Yankee fan but frankly what's the goal of destroying the old yankees stadium to build an new aseptised replica?). I hate most "new stadiums" either in the US or in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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