GG Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) then accepting the premise that many elites aren't people you would choose to be around, do we really want a system that relentlessly encourages more people to try and be like them? it's not about envy. What you just described is pure envy and bitterness. Why should you care about somebody else's success and economic status? Successful people are usually high driven egotistical and insufferable. Personally, I wouldn't want to have a drink with them. But I also know that many people I would like to have a drink with, couldn't balance a checkbook, let alone be trusted with running a company. The system that we have is letting people strive and achieve what they do best. Just because you don't want to hang out with them doesn't mean they don't disproportionately contribute to society's well being. The world is still celebrating Steve Jobs. Yet it's known that he was a world class a-hole. In your system, he'd be thrown to the curb because he didn't play nice with people who couldn't keep up with him. That's not the system I want to be a part of. Edited October 27, 2011 by GG
Alaska Darin Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 The core grievance is political influence being blatantly bought by corporate money. And many of them are asking for the government to completely forgive their student loans, which is so very different than corporations asking for things that give them a leg up, right? I love when uber-liberals give examples like you have in this thread. The government that you worship is the biggest corporation in the world and causes more strife on a daily basis than all the other corporations in the world combined. They're guilty of virtually everything you accuse faceless bureaucracies of by at least 10 fold AND they have the ability to manipulate the global economy with an ease that corporations can only sit back and envy. You're a whiny hypocrite.
DaveinElma Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 are you a 1%'er? if so, i get your point, if not what % of small business owners do you suppose make up the top 1%? I dont know if I'm a one percenter literally but as a business owner Ive got a bullseye on my back from the class warriors on the left.
TPS Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 And many of them are asking for the government to completely forgive their student loans, which is so very different than corporations asking for things that give them a leg up, right? I love when uber-liberals give examples like you have in this thread. The government that you worship is the biggest corporation in the world and causes more strife on a daily basis than all the other corporations in the world combined. They're guilty of virtually everything you accuse faceless bureaucracies of by at least 10 fold AND they have the ability to manipulate the global economy with an ease that corporations can only sit back and envy. You're a whiny hypocrite. And who exactly does this government entity work for? The poor who don't pay income taxes and don't vote? The middle class that's disappearing? The point which you apparently don't get is that so-called government represents those who fund campaigns, and the biggest contributors over the past 15 years have been unions, Wall STreet, Healthcare, and every other industry dominated by big firms. Laws are made to protect or promote those interests. And where do those politicos go after their work is done? They get well-paid jobs with the industries they rewarded. Who do you think benefits the most from the $5 trillion that government circulates into the economy? Do you think the health system wants to end Medicare? It's a gold mine. Banks, which are given a government license to create money, don't want regulations constraining their ability to create more and more paper, and they pay their government whores protection money. While you can find or cherry pick people to say something that fits fox snews spin, the majority are focused on democracy and fairness--defined as a level playing field. The system's f-ed up, and people know it.
Rob's House Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 And who exactly does this government entity work for? The poor who don't pay income taxes and don't vote? The middle class that's disappearing? The point which you apparently don't get is that so-called government represents those who fund campaigns, and the biggest contributors over the past 15 years have been unions, Wall STreet, Healthcare, and every other industry dominated by big firms. Laws are made to protect or promote those interests. And where do those politicos go after their work is done? They get well-paid jobs with the industries they rewarded. Who do you think benefits the most from the $5 trillion that government circulates into the economy? Do you think the health system wants to end Medicare? It's a gold mine. Banks, which are given a government license to create money, don't want regulations constraining their ability to create more and more paper, and they pay their government whores protection money. While you can find or cherry pick people to say something that fits fox snews spin, the majority are focused on democracy and fairness--defined as a level playing field. The system's f-ed up, and people know it. No **** buddy, that's why some of us would prefer this govt had less power.
GG Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 The system's f-ed up, and people know it. So why are they at Zuchotti and not on K Street?
IDBillzFan Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 No **** buddy, that's why some of us would prefer this govt had less power. And we all know that "less power" is just conservative jargon for "no government at all," and we all know that means you want grandma to die, children to starve, women to get raped, store managers to get robbed and black people back on the plantation, so no thank you sir. We will not stop until there is a level playing field, and by level playing field we mean "Those who can, do, and those who won't should be able to help themselves to whatever is earned by those who do." So why are they at Zuchotti and not on K Street? At this point I think it's pretty obvious that the protesters don't have any clue what they're REALLY protesting because your point is not only accurate, it's obvious to anyone paying attention...except, apparently, the protesters.
Alaska Darin Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 The system's f-ed up, and people know it. And the way it gets fixed ISN'T continuing to commit the very same sins. I truly appreciate you trying to summarize things I've been saying on this board for as long as it's been in existence.
Dante Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) Free up the private sector(de reg, de tax). Go with something like Perry's flat tax. Economy will almost immediately begin to correct itself. I have no idea how long it will take to totally turn around but in the long run, the only truly impoverished ones will be the lazy slobs that don't want to work. You know, like the ones who are occupying and whining for handouts. Edited October 27, 2011 by Dante
RkFast Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 And if you weren't either a robot or autistic you'd understand that the occupy wall street movement is not protesting your piddling company- they are protesting both the bribers (financial industry, military industrial complex, Big energy, pharmaceutics,etc and the bribed our whorish politicians. The core grievance is political influence being blatantly bought by corporate money. Now come no issues with political influence being blatantly bought by misappropriated union dues?
olivier in france Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 It's sad to me that our country has suddenly become a place where the more successful you are, the more you should be hated, vilified, scorned and held up as a symbol of all this is wrong the the US. When the hell did personal achievement and success become bad? the most frightening part is that the situation is even worse outside the USA. I'll not be surprised the day a mob actually lynch a guy because he's rich here in France. It's sad to me that our country has suddenly become a place where the more successful you are, the more you should be hated, vilified, scorned and held up as a symbol of all this is wrong the the US. When the hell did personal achievement and success become bad?
Alaska Darin Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 Free up the private sector(de reg, de tax). Go with something like Perry's flat tax. Economy will almost immediately begin to correct itself. I have no idea how long it will take to totally turn around but in the long run, the only truly impoverished ones will be the lazy slobs that don't want to work. You know, like the ones who are occupying and whining for handouts. Perry's plan is a disaster. The thought is correct but the way he's proposing to execute is ludicrous.
KD in CA Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 hyperbole? maybe. stupid? if you say so. the point is, that in general, self service and promotion are the highest priorities of this group, often at a high price to everyone else. i dislike this about many in the bottom stratum but at least it's understandable. survival instincts and greed are very different things. So which groups exactly do not share these traits? Labor unions? Government officials? Come on, give us one of those classic "salt-of-the-earth working man" speeches. They are always so entertaining.
erynthered Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 Perry's plan is a disaster. The thought is correct but the way he's proposing to execute is ludicrous. You're being kind. 20% flat, or stay with the current tax code. Opt out of Fica, or stay in. Just the fact that he worked with lock box boy scares the hell out of me.
Gary M Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 And if you weren't either a robot or autistic you'd understand that the occupy wall street movement is not protesting your piddling company- they are protesting both the bribers (financial industry, military industrial complex, Big energy, pharmaceutics,etc and the bribed our whorish politicians. The core grievance is political influence being blatantly bought by corporate money. Like Obama? http://hotair.com/archives/2011/10/20/obamas-raised-more-money-for-democrats-from-wall-street-donors-than-all-republican-candidates-combined/ I begrudge the hell out of someone getting rich through fraud or gaming the system, Like these people? http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/132683463.html
TPS Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 And the way it gets fixed ISN'T continuing to commit the very same sins. I truly appreciate you trying to summarize things I've been saying on this board for as long as it's been in existence. Which is why I'm surprised you don't support it? I think I've agreed with you on this all along as well. It's not a left-right thing; it's a take back democracy issue. And the corporate media will twist this to turn people against those who threaten the system. "It's smelly hippies who want the government to give them a job and bail out." That's just Bull ****. People are fed up with a system that rewards the politicians who reward their big funding constituents. I'll support someone like Ron Paul, despite many disagreements with his policies, because he is a threat to the system, which needs to be taken down. As for K street G, they ARE in the right place: it's better to threaten the puppet masters than the puppets...
....lybob Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 Like Obama? http://hotair.com/archives/2011/10/20/obamas-raised-more-money-for-democrats-from-wall-street-donors-than-all-republican-candidates-combined/ Like these people? http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/132683463.html I've stated many times that I think Obama is in the pocket of the financial industry and other corporations, further I've stated that not only has he continued the unconstitutional abuses of power seen under Bush but he has expanded on them and transparency in government bad under Bush is even worse under Obama. Obama's health care program despite a few bright spots was a give away to the insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry. On the second point potential fraud should be investigated and where found prosecuted.
Dante Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 I've stated many times that I think Obama is in the pocket of the financial industry and other corporations, further I've stated that not only has he continued the unconstitutional abuses of power seen under Bush but he has expanded on them and transparency in government bad under Bush is even worse under Obama. Obama's health care program despite a few bright spots was a give away to the insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry. On the second point potential fraud should be investigated and where found prosecuted. Obama is a part of a socialist/marxist counter revolution. Even self righteous, authoritarian, "for the worker" movements like this have to be funded. He's a whore for them only to get what he wants. Total government control. Wealth redistribution.
LeviF Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 As for K street G, they ARE in the right place: it's better to threaten the puppet masters than the puppets... See? I'm not the only one who thinks this is a corporatocracy. ****ty company though
meazza Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) It's not a left-right thing; it's a take back democracy issue. That's funny because as far as I could tell, this is a left wing movement. Obviously a lot of the people don't have strong ties to any specific ideology, but the whole movement is left wing. It's funny because everywhere I go, I see protests whether it be OWS, unions (construction & workers unions) while I'm here 10 hours a day earning my paycheck. Edited October 27, 2011 by meazza
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