PromoTheRobot Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) Yes but the Bucs don't have to play that game every year and the next time they do it will likely count as one of their "road" games. Not yet... PTR Edited October 26, 2011 by PromoTheRobot
Delete This Account Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 John, why do you suppose there is interest on renewing the deal from the Toronto side? Haven't they pretty much been swindled by Ralph on this? i expect there to be talks with certain considerations given to cost, marketing, etc. Phil Lind, last year, discussed the possibility of renewing the deal, and the Bills are all for it because of the exposure they get in Toronto. the NFL's on board, too. Rogers does get several other benefits from "hosting" this series, as it provides them an in with a $9 billion business in the NFL, and fits in with their many other communication properties, from TV to cell phones to other media. not sure if Rogers Centre is making money on this current deal, but i'm sure Rogers Communication as an entire entity is generating revenue. and concerns aside about the Bills playing home games in Toronto. and i can appreciate the angst and anger these games do cause. in the long-haul, the Bills long-term viability in this market is distinctly tethered to regionalization. and this deal has been very good to the franchise on that front. aside from the money the team receives directly for playing these games, the boost in tickets and other types of sales is elementally significant in breathing necessary life into a small-market franchise. Toronto's proximity also plays a key factor in the argument to keep the Bills in this "region." like it or not -- and if it stays like this until Buffalo transforms into an economic engine -- it's a smart and necessary deal. jw Yes but the Bucs don't have to play that game every year and the next time they do it will likely count as one of their "road" games. not true, or at least not the way i understand it. the NFL is opening the door to have one team enter a five-year deal to play a "home" game in the UK, much like the Bills series in Toronto. should the Bucs go for it, they will be playing home games in the UK -- and from what i understand -- in addition to the annual game at Wembley. jw
BuffOrange Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) i expect there to be talks with certain considerations given to cost, marketing, etc. Phil Lind, last year, discussed the possibility of renewing the deal, and the Bills are all for it because of the exposure they get in Toronto. the NFL's on board, too. Rogers does get several other benefits from "hosting" this series, as it provides them an in with a $9 billion business in the NFL, and fits in with their many other communication properties, from TV to cell phones to other media. not sure if Rogers Centre is making money on this current deal, but i'm sure Rogers Communication as an entire entity is generating revenue. and concerns aside about the Bills playing home games in Toronto. and i can appreciate the angst and anger these games do cause. in the long-haul, the Bills long-term viability in this market is distinctly tethered to regionalization. and this deal has been very good to the franchise on that front. aside from the money the team receives directly for playing these games, the boost in tickets and other types of sales is elementally significant in breathing necessary life into a small-market franchise. Toronto's proximity also plays a key factor in the argument to keep the Bills in this "region." like it or not -- and if it stays like this until Buffalo transforms into an economic engine -- it's a smart and necessary deal. jw Interesting, thanks. It might be smart. "Necessary" is a strong word imo given they already were making $ and "regionalized" to some extent in Rochester/Ontario. Plus revenue sharing and (correct me if I'm wrong) a very high % of an NFL team's $ coming from TV. If they make $5mill more than a regular home game, that's not nothing. But I seem to recall Ralph referring to corporate naming rights on the stadium as "a drop in the bucket" - how much less $ would that bring in per year? Meh, still seems like a money grab imo. not true, or at least not the way i understand it. the NFL is opening the door to have one team enter a five-year deal to play a "home" game in the UK, much like the Bills series in Toronto. should the Bucs go for it, they will be playing home games in the UK -- and from what i understand -- in addition to the annual game at Wembley. jw I hadn't heard that, thx. As of now though the Bucs haven't officially gone for it and if/when they do their fans are gonna b!tch too. Edited October 26, 2011 by BuffOrange
dwight in philly Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 i expect there to be talks with certain considerations given to cost, marketing, etc. Phil Lind, last year, discussed the possibility of renewing the deal, and the Bills are all for it because of the exposure they get in Toronto. the NFL's on board, too. Rogers does get several other benefits from "hosting" this series, as it provides them an in with a $9 billion business in the NFL, and fits in with their many other communication properties, from TV to cell phones to other media. not sure if Rogers Centre is making money on this current deal, but i'm sure Rogers Communication as an entire entity is generating revenue. and concerns aside about the Bills playing home games in Toronto. and i can appreciate the angst and anger these games do cause. in the long-haul, the Bills long-term viability in this market is distinctly tethered to regionalization. and this deal has been very good to the franchise on that front. aside from the money the team receives directly for playing these games, the boost in tickets and other types of sales is elementally significant in breathing necessary life into a small-market franchise. Toronto's proximity also plays a key factor in the argument to keep the Bills in this "region." like it or not -- and if it stays like this until Buffalo transforms into an economic engine -- it's a smart and necessary deal. jw not true, or at least not the way i understand it. the NFL is opening the door to have one team enter a five-year deal to play a "home" game in the UK, much like the Bills series in Toronto. should the Bucs go for it, they will be playing home games in the UK -- and from what i understand -- in addition to the annual game at Wembley. jw with all due respect john, i feel that the team realizes a nice profit regardless of the toronto series. a simple question needs to be asked:if ralph and co are not satisfied with the money made in this market, sell the team . i am quite sure that there are enough parties in buffalo that would be interested in purchasing the bills and living with the profit margin that the buffalo market(minus the toronto game) would be realized. it just reeks of a money grab, plain and simple. not every franchise can be DALLAS, THE NYC market, it is what it is. i feel the team as is , is an asset to the league based on the historic and tradition it represents. the league seems to be smart enough to realize this. they need the "green bay's", the "bills" to maintain its identity.
Delete This Account Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 with all due respect john, i feel that the team realizes a nice profit regardless of the toronto series. a simple question needs to be asked:if ralph and co are not satisfied with the money made in this market, sell the team . i am quite sure that there are enough parties in buffalo that would be interested in purchasing the bills and living with the profit margin that the buffalo market(minus the toronto game) would be realized. it just reeks of a money grab, plain and simple. not every franchise can be DALLAS, THE NYC market, it is what it is. i feel the team as is , is an asset to the league based on the historic and tradition it represents. the league seems to be smart enough to realize this. they need the "green bay's", the "bills" to maintain its identity. that's not an unfair point of view, and i'm sure one that's shared by numerous Bills fans. i do think that what the Bills are proposing to add in renovating Ralph Wilson Stadium has the opportunity to generate more revenue. bottom line, there is a bottom line that needs to be met in order for the Bills to remain a viable entity in WNY in order to remain competitive in the NFL. this is a money-making league. and it's also important to continue to generate additional revenue in order for them to maintain their value for any future owner to ascertain what return they will get in order to pay off the purchase debt. jw
billsfreak Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Will Chris Brown report on this? Doubtful http://nationalpost.stats.com/fb/story.asp?i=20111026131634782764508 Updated link to give JW the byline... ESPN put its AFC East blogger in the article so I thought he wrote it... Having one regular season game up there a year, and probably more than that in the near future was only about one type of support-$$ fiscal support for Ralph's pocket. A good portion of the people don't want it up there, it messes with the Argo's, and the ticket prices are outrageous up there, even compared to in Buffalo. Every time we play up there we are more or less the visitors, it always seems like a home game for the opponents.
May Day 10 Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) Im glad G. Wilson said this. Im used to getting kicked in the gut by all the stories during "Toronto week". It really sucks they sacrifice competitive edge for this money grab. Hold preseason games there and bus business leaders down every home game and provide complimentary suites that are apparently unused. The experience here is way, way better than up there. Do they really want to sell that morgue that occurs in the Rogers Centre? A game in Toronto once maybe wouldnt have been a bad novelty. Every year though is much, and if they increase it to 2 regular season games, Im out. Edited October 26, 2011 by May Day 10
dwight in philly Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 that's not an unfair point of view, and i'm sure one that's shared by numerous Bills fans. i do think that what the Bills are proposing to add in renovating Ralph Wilson Stadium has the opportunity to generate more revenue. bottom line, there is a bottom line that needs to be met in order for the Bills to remain a viable entity in WNY in order to remain competitive in the NFL. this is a money-making league. and it's also important to continue to generate additional revenue in order for them to maintain their value for any future owner to ascertain what return they will get in order to pay off the purchase debt. jw i do understand that, but i think the NFL, by its actions of not having franchise shifts "willy nilly" or allowing teams to use nicknames like the "buffalo stampede", or minnesota wild" want to maintain an "above the fray" mentality. maximizing revenue, all fine and well, but there is always the danger of it becoming major league baseball, i e: the yankees, boston,and bigger markets, being in the hunt every year. the kansas city's, the pittsburghs usually out of it. sooner or later it MAY catch up with them. but your point is certainly well taken.
Mr. WEO Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Nice to see a Bill speak out. But this is old news the more embarrassing elements of these games have been well covered by the Canadian press in the past. When has this franchise been in financial trouble? They are consistently one of the league's more profitable teams, despite poor ecnomic cirumstances. When has their "viabilty" been threatened, except by pundits and board posters?
Heels20X6 Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 I fully believe that a couple of good seasons by the Bills and the stadium would be full of loud "Bills fans". Because there is nothing more than the city of Toronto loves than jumping on a bandwagon. Look at the support in their city for any time not named the Leafs. If you're good, we're going to show up, be loud and claim we were fans the whole time! That's the Toronto way! Like I said in other posts, we Bills fans can take back the Dome and make it our home game in another city. Not going isn't going to stop this from happening so we might as well make the trip up, hassle some Leafs fans, take in a peeler joint and cheer our Bills on to victory.
bills1960 Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Thank you George Wilson for making my day. No offense to any Canadians here, but even you have to admit it is an outrage that the Bills have to do this once a year. We may be told its for the expansion of our fan base, but we all know the real reason is money.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Why can't Bills fans drive to toronto? I am only asking. Do season ticket holders have to purchase tix fo rthe Rogers center game? It is a 90 min drive, right? Maybe Toronto is also hopin gto get Buffalo and Bills fans to come to their city? If you notice, i dont think they ever play a game late in the season in Toronto.
BuffOrange Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 i do understand that, but i think the NFL, by its actions of not having franchise shifts "willy nilly" or allowing teams to use nicknames like the "buffalo stampede", or minnesota wild" want to maintain an "above the fray" mentality. maximizing revenue, all fine and well, but there is always the danger of it becoming major league baseball, i e: the yankees, boston,and bigger markets, being in the hunt every year. the kansas city's, the pittsburghs usually out of it. sooner or later it MAY catch up with them. but your point is certainly well taken. Nothing you don't already know I'm sure, but that's what the salary cap is for. If the Cowboys could spend more they probably would. I think it's pretty much BS that the Bills can't compete under the league's current structure; or for that matter as this article alludes to, that billionare owners even buy pro sports teams as an investment in the first place, or that they might somehow not be viable to potential buyers w/out Toronto. The best illustration of psychic benefits is the art market. Art collectors buy paintings for two reasons. They are interested in the painting as an investment — the same way they would view buying stock in General Motors. And they are interested in the painting as a painting — as a beautiful object. In a recent paper in Economics Bulletin, the economists Erdal Atukeren and Aylin Seçkin used a variety of clever ways to figure out just how large the second psychic benefit is, and they put it at 28 percent.7 In other words, if you pay $100 million for a Van Gogh, $28 million of that is for the joy of looking at it every morning. If that seems like a lot, it shouldn't. There aren't many Van Goghs out there, and they are very beautiful. If you care passionately about art, paying that kind of premium makes perfect sense. Pro sports teams are a lot like works of art. Forbes magazine annually estimates the value of every professional franchise, based on standard financial metrics like operating expenses, ticket sales, revenue, and physical assets like stadiums. When sports teams change hands, however, the actual sales price is invariably higher. Forbes valued the Detroit Pistons at $360 million. They just sold for $420 million. Forbes valued the Wizards at $322 million. They just sold for $551 million. Forbes said that the Warriors were worth $363 million. They just sold for $450 million. There are a number of reasons why the Forbes number is consistently too low. The simplest is that Forbes is evaluating franchises strictly as businesses. But they are being bought by people who care passionately about sports — and the $90 million premium that the Warriors' new owners were willing to pay represents the psychic benefit of owning a sports team. If that seems like a lot, it shouldn't. There aren't many NBA franchises out there, and they are very beautiful.
dwight in philly Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) Why can't Bills fans drive to toronto? I am only asking. Do season ticket holders have to purchase tix fo rthe Rogers center game? It is a 90 min drive, right? Maybe Toronto is also hopin gto get Buffalo and Bills fans to come to their city? If you notice, i dont think they ever play a game late in the season in Toronto. i am 99.9% sure that bills season ticket holders do not have to purchase the toronto game. but it is the buffalo bills, take it or leave it. i am glad the toronto people come down for the games, thats great, but otherwise, sink or swim in buffalo. i have a sneaking suspicion that they, the bills, can make it in buffalo. Edited October 26, 2011 by dwight in philly
Captain Hindsight Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 i am 99.9% sure that bills season ticket holders do not have to purchase the toronto game. but it is the buffalo bills, take it or leave it. i am glad the toronto people come down for the games, thats great, but otherwise, sink or swim in buffalo. i have a sneaking suspicion that they, the bills, can make it in buffalo. Make it 100% we dont have to. My understanding is that ticket is more expensive than what I pay at the Ralph. Id do it anyway but I simply cant afford to stay overnight in Toronto and buy a ticket plus gas... Once I get out of school we can talk
Heels20X6 Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Thank you George Wilson for making my day. No offense to any Canadians here, but even you have to admit it is an outrage that the Bills have to do this once a year. We may be told its for the expansion of our fan base, but we all know the real reason is money. Us Canadian Bills fans hate it too. We've said it numerous times that the experience that the Ralph is 100x better than that of the crappy SkyDome. But we also hoped that Bills fans would at least show up and make it as much a home game for OUR team as possible. The prices sure suck but you can easily get over the border and back in a day and with the way tickets have sold, a scalped pair would be a bargain. I go because at the end of the day, it's a Bills game, regardless of what city it's in. It pains me to walk in there and see how pathetic the crowd is. Steeler fans travel across the country to see their team play. If they moved one game to Toronto, I guarantee it would still be sold out and filled with Steeler Nation.
snamsnoops Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 (edited) Why can't Bills fans drive to toronto? I am only asking. Do season ticket holders have to purchase tix fo rthe Rogers center game? It is a 90 min drive, right? Maybe Toronto is also hopin gto get Buffalo and Bills fans to come to their city? If you notice, i dont think they ever play a game late in the season in Toronto. I used 2 visit TO alot (D n B raves), but then i received a DWI misdemeanor and now the Canadian Gov't wont allow me into ther country! O well. What i am basically saying is atleast 50% of bills fans are drunks, so making the drive might be tuff, even harder getting home. And because ther r so so so many alchohlics, alot have DWI's and probably cant cross the border. Now ther r things that can be done to gain entrance back into to Canada, but i am not giving that F%$king country any more of my $$$. Edited October 26, 2011 by snamsnoops
xsoldier54 Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Us Canadian Bills fans hate it too. We've said it numerous times that the experience that the Ralph is 100x better than that of the crappy SkyDome. But we also hoped that Bills fans would at least show up and make it as much a home game for OUR team as possible. The prices sure suck but you can easily get over the border and back in a day and with the way tickets have sold, a scalped pair would be a bargain. I go because at the end of the day, it's a Bills game, regardless of what city it's in. It pains me to walk in there and see how pathetic the crowd is. Steeler fans travel across the country to see their team play. If they moved one game to Toronto, I guarantee it would still be sold out and filled with Steeler Nation. I live in Newfoundland and my son, his girlfriend and I went to the Philly game at the Ralph. We looked into getting tickets to the game in Toronto, but in the end, the tickets and hotel prices were so expensive, it was cheaper to fly into Toronto, stay at a hotel in Tonawanda and then drive down to Orchard Park for the game. The reason most people don't come across from the U.S. to the games in Toronto is because it's just not worth the expense. Even with the rental car it was much cheaper to do it this way.
JESSEFEFFER Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 Doesn't sound like a "rip" to me either, but I think he SHOULD rip them. If those F'ers are gonna keep cheering for the opposition, then they can go suck it. If I were playing for the Bills, I'd call them out too. I love Toronto, but screw the "fans" there. If you happen to live in this region and are also a fan of the Jets, Dolphins, Bears or Redskins, this game may have some appeal to you. It's a rare oooportunity to see your team and the cost would be similar to traveling to their home stadiums, i.e. expensive. You'd probably be willing to overlook the lack of a great gameday experience as well. If you happen to live in this region and are a Bills' fan, there is very little appeal to going to this game, regardless of which side of the border you live on. The marked up prices and diluted gameday experience make it easy to "just say no" to this game and yes to the other 7. What that leaves is a crowd that is either largely disinterested in the game or that is there to see the other team. What really stinks, IMO, is the loss of an October home game and getting stuck with 3 December home games including Christmas Eve. One sign of this was market situation was the price that Bills/Eagles tickets were getting. When tickets are going for 2 to 3 X face value for a game that is televised, it tells you that these people are not planning on going to a December game when the only other options were the Toronto game or the sold out Jets game. Given that a bad Dolphins team, the Titans and Broncos are not likely to be big draws, it would not surprise me if they failed to sell out all three of these games.
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