Cheapness as a weapon

[ieatcrayonz]

Ralph and in general the Bills organization are often accused of being cheap both on this site and with the fan population at large. Right now, Fitz, Jackson and Johnson are all setting their sites on new contracts. Each of these guys has worked hard and succeeded to different degrees. We can all argue about which one deserves it most/least but I'd think we'd agree new contract talk is important for all of them. They also have one other thing in common which is interesting to me.

 

All of these guys were low draft picks or UDFAs and really haven't had a "career contract". In my opinion this brings a danger and reason for the Bills to be careful. It is different from the danger presented by a high pick like Maybinot or Hardly. Maybinot stole money from the Bills out of arrogance, learned a hard lesson and is now working his way back up the ladder. His lesson is one of a journey. We will see where it leads. Hardly also had a lesson and it appears his journey is over. I'm not sure these examples mean much about Fitz/Jackson/Johnson but the lessons being learned are not surprising given human nature.

 

A different example is that of Merriman. The team and the player both wanted a revival of past glory and a miraculous recovery from an injury. Other times players were just getting older and weren't able to keep up. See the Redskins for examples galore. It is in human nature to deny hard reality and think you can turn back the clock. I don't think these examples map well to Fitz and crew either.

 

Our three guys would seem to be the perfect type of player to sign. They are self motivated, hard working and eager to prove themselves. They are the underdogs and they have climbed the mountain. Here is where this gets tricky. I think the Bills need to see where each guy's motivation lies. If they get a big contract, is this something they view as the end of the rainbow? Does all the hard work stop? Is their real goal winning, and will the contract drive them to keep improving? This is all tricky when measured against human nature. The Bills almost need a psychologist on the negotiating team if you ask me.

 

Be honest; did you think Kyle Williams would lose his work ethic after he got the big money? Did you think he would be sitting every week while the defense languishes on the field? Did you think he would be "injured", "injured", "injured"? I sure didn't. How can the Bills best assure this won't happen with Fitz/Jackson/Johnson? Williams is the better model than Maybinot or Merriman. Buyer beware on all three of these guys. It doesn't mean you can't pay them, it just means know as much as you can about what you're buying. You don't want to end up with four Williamses that is for sure.

 

I think "cheapness" is the card that the Bills hold in this situation and in any negotiation you need to make use of all your cards.

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

I think you may be on to something here. Take a close look at this recent Kyle Williams video interview about his current "injury:"

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/media-center/videos/Kyle-Williams-on-His-Injury-Situation/9010ea88-0d32-481b-b286-130f338e1f30

 

If you look over his right shoulder you can see that he has a dollar bill prominently displayed on the wall of his locker. This raises some interesting questions. Did he have any money on his locker wall BEFORE he signed the big contract extension? Or did it show up around the same time as his current streak of games missed due to injury? Since it's only a one dollar bill, maybe it's a reminder that Ralph is cheap and Kyle needs to make as much as he can in every contract. There's too much of this crying about "Ralph is cheap" on this board - - we don't need it in the locker room, too.

 

Anyway, I'd sure like to know if Fitz and Stevie and Freddie have any currency tacked up on the walls of their lockers, and if so, in what denominations. If they do, it's a red flag. We don't want any of them to get a big money contract extension and turn into the next Kyle Williams.

[wnyBacker]

there is no doubt that overall the bills are on the cheap side. however, its tough to use money in any sense to determine if a player will maintain a strong work ethic. the front office just needs to do a good job of reconizing players who are committed and telented and flat out pay them. this point works well with the whole "do we shell money out to fitz/stevie j/freddy j; the bills are more than familiar with these players and should be able to have a good idea if loads of money will negativly affect either one of them. (goes back to ieatcrazyons point of knowing the product before you invest.

 

Back to the bills being cheap. we have spent loads of money on players from other organizations who just flat out look like waste when they get here (i.e. larry tripplet, thanks marv), so why not instead give the loot to our inhouse guys who have done nothing thus far but make us think that they will still work hard reguardless of the size of their paycheck.

[ieatcrayonz]

I think you may be on to something here. Take a close look at this recent Kyle Williams video interview about his current "injury:"

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/media-center/videos/Kyle-Williams-on-His-Injury-Situation/9010ea88-0d32-481b-b286-130f338e1f30

 

If you look over his right shoulder you can see that he has a dollar bill prominently displayed on the wall of his locker. This raises some interesting questions. Did he have any money on his locker wall BEFORE he signed the big contract extension? Or did it show up around the same time as his current streak of games missed due to injury? Since it's only a one dollar bill, maybe it's a reminder that Ralph is cheap and Kyle needs to make as much as he can in every contract. There's too much of this crying about "Ralph is cheap" on this board - - we don't need it in the locker room, too.

 

Anyway, I'd sure like to know if Fitz and Stevie and Freddie have any currency tacked up on the walls of their lockers, and if so, in what denominations. If they do, it's a red flag. We don't want any of them to get a big money contract extension and turn into the next Kyle Williams.

 

Blah blah blah whatever dude. Maybe it's an injury maybe it's not. The point is he is NOT earning the money. He played like crap all year before his "injury" too. Now the injury, when he gets back it might be some other excuse or maybe we'll get lucky and he will play well. Evidence is clearly pointing south, not north. Maybe being a rolling ball of butter knives feels safer than being a rolling ball of butcher knives. I never thought it would happen but it did. The Bills just need to be careful with the other guys because you don't want 4 big cap hits and zero production.

 

there is no doubt that overall the bills are on the cheap side. however, its tough to use money in any sense to determine if a player will maintain a strong work ethic. the front office just needs to do a good job of reconizing players who are committed and telented and flat out pay them. this point works well with the whole "do we shell money out to fitz/stevie j/freddy j; the bills are more than familiar with these players and should be able to have a good idea if loads of money will negativly affect either one of them. (goes back to ieatcrazyons point of knowing the product before you invest.

 

Back to the bills being cheap. we have spent loads of money on players from other organizations who just flat out look like waste when they get here (i.e. larry tripplet, thanks marv), so why not instead give the loot to our inhouse guys who have done nothing thus far but make us think that they will still work hard reguardless of the size of their paycheck.

This is why I said they should have a psychologist on the negotiating staff. I doubt Buddy Nix would have seen the signs of Williams' impending decline, and it is not fair to ask that of him. It is fair to ask him to hire someone who can help him read the signs on display if there are any.

[Mr. WEO]

 

 

This is why I said they should have a psychologist on the negotiating staff. I doubt Buddy Nix would have seen the signs of Williams' impending decline, and it is not fair to ask that of him. It is fair to ask him to hire someone who can help him read the signs on display if there are any.

It's more fair to ask him to hire someone who is competent to run an NFL defense.

[ieatcrayonz]

It's more fair to ask him to hire someone who is competent to run an NFL defense.

You can do both you know. I'm sure there are multiple threads about Edwards and deservedly so, but this one is meant to discuss contracts.

 

I am not saying Edwards is blameless, but it has to be challenging when you have a critical player sign a big contract and morph from relentless force into someone either watching from the sidelines or just plain playing poorly. Edwards is under pressure to play a guy like Williams because of the $$$ even though the $$$ seem to be the root cause resulting in a player who is either already on the bench due to injury or should be on the bench due to horrible production. The Williams problem is not one Edwards seems able to fix and it is not fair to expect that from any DC. As I said, this is not to absolve Edwards from all blame, just the rolling ball of butter knives.

[billsfreak]

Ralph and in general the Bills organization are often accused of being cheap both on this site and with the fan population at large. Right now, Fitz, Jackson and Johnson are all setting their sites on new contracts. Each of these guys has worked hard and succeeded to different degrees. We can all argue about which one deserves it most/least but I'd think we'd agree new contract talk is important for all of them. They also have one other thing in common which is interesting to me.

 

All of these guys were low draft picks or UDFAs and really haven't had a "career contract". In my opinion this brings a danger and reason for the Bills to be careful. It is different from the danger presented by a high pick like Maybinot or Hardly. Maybinot stole money from the Bills out of arrogance, learned a hard lesson and is now working his way back up the ladder. His lesson is one of a journey. We will see where it leads. Hardly also had a lesson and it appears his journey is over. I'm not sure these examples mean much about Fitz/Jackson/Johnson but the lessons being learned are not surprising given human nature.

 

A different example is that of Merriman. The team and the player both wanted a revival of past glory and a miraculous recovery from an injury. Other times players were just getting older and weren't able to keep up. See the Redskins for examples galore. It is in human nature to deny hard reality and think you can turn back the clock. I don't think these examples map well to Fitz and crew either.

 

Our three guys would seem to be the perfect type of player to sign. They are self motivated, hard working and eager to prove themselves. They are the underdogs and they have climbed the mountain. Here is where this gets tricky. I think the Bills need to see where each guy's motivation lies. If they get a big contract, is this something they view as the end of the rainbow? Does all the hard work stop? Is their real goal winning, and will the contract drive them to keep improving? This is all tricky when measured against human nature. The Bills almost need a psychologist on the negotiating team if you ask me.

 

Be honest; did you think Kyle Williams would lose his work ethic after he got the big money? Did you think he would be sitting every week while the defense languishes on the field? Did you think he would be "injured", "injured", "injured"? I sure didn't. How can the Bills best assure this won't happen with Fitz/Jackson/Johnson? Williams is the better model than Maybinot or Merriman. Buyer beware on all three of these guys. It doesn't mean you can't pay them, it just means know as much as you can about what you're buying. You don't want to end up with four Williamses that is for sure.

 

I think "cheapness" is the card that the Bills hold in this situation and in any negotiation you need to make use of all your cards.

It is a strange position to be in for such a cheap organization. Johnson has had one good season and wants to be a top 10 paid receiver? Freddie has had the most success out of the three but he is getting up in age. He deserves a raise, but I wouldn't guess they want to go 5 years, maybe 3. Fitz is in his first full year as a starter, do you give him a huge contract based on the first 4 games of this season. Williams had a couple Pro Bowl quality seasons before he got his extension, whether he has let up since is a different subject. I did read where the foot has been bothering him since training camp, and has really cut into his burst. This team is really confusing as to how they spend their money, as on occasion they do spend it. They will let a player in his prime walk so they don't have to spend, yet give 10 million over two years to a washed up, injury prone, maybe ex-steriod user because of his connection to Buddy Nix. I think the Bills should pay all of them, with that said, I don't think any of them should be paid in the top tier for their positions either, but rather given a hefty raise which puts them all in that second tier of players for their positions. The hardest one to figure is Fitz, he is a QB so that alone will put him in the big bucks, but for a few weeks he looks like the second coming of John Elway and everyone wants to throw the checkbook at him, then he comes every 3rd or 4th week and literally lays an egg like he did against the Giants.

Edited October 26, 2011 by billsfreak

[Mr. WEO]

You can do both you know. I'm sure there are multiple threads about Edwards and deservedly so, but this one is meant to discuss contracts.

 

I am not saying Edwards is blameless, but it has to be challenging when you have a critical player sign a big contract and morph from relentless force into someone either watching from the sidelines or just plain playing poorly. Edwards is under pressure to play a guy like Williams because of the $$$ even though the $$$ seem to be the root cause resulting in a player who is either already on the bench due to injury or should be on the bench due to horrible production. The Williams problem is not one Edwards seems able to fix and it is not fair to expect that from any DC. As I said, this is not to absolve Edwards from all blame, just the rolling ball of butter knives.

Williams is injured.

 

Dumbest post of the day.

[ieatcrayonz]

It is a strange position to be in for such a cheap organization. Johnson has had one good season and wants to be a top 10 paid receiver? Freddie has had the most success out of the three but he is getting up in age. He deserves a raise, but I wouldn't guess they want to go 5 years, maybe 3. Fitz is in his first full year as a starter, do you give him a huge contract based on the first 4 games of this season. Williams had a couple Pro Bowl quality seasons before he got his extension, whether he has let up since is a different subject. I did read where the foot has been bothering him since training camp, and has really cut into his burst. This team is really confusing as to how they spend their money, as on occasion they do spend it. They will let a player in his prime walk so they don't have to spend, yet give 10 million over two years to a washed up, injury prone, maybe ex-steriod user because of his connection to Buddy Nix. I think the Bills should pay all of them, with that said, I don't think any of them should be paid in the top tier for their positions either, but rather given a hefty raise which puts them all in that second tier of players for their positions. The hardest one to figure is Fitz, he is a QB so that alone will put him in the big bucks, but for a few weeks he looks like the second coming of John Elway and everyone wants to throw the checkbook at him, then he comes every 3rd or 4th week and literally lays an egg like he did against the Giants.

 

You seem bitter and desiring to blame the Bills for everything. Do you realistically think the Ravens/Jets/Patriots/Packers/Whoever would have seen the transition of Williams into the rolling ball of butter knives? I hear you on the skills of Johnson, age of Freddie and inconsistency of Fitz but if they all display the decline in desire like Williams none of that will matter.

 

One time in Buffalo I drove through a town called Lackawanna which I think is an Iriquois word meaning "I don't want to". I think Lackawanna is something the Bills have seen in KW and should fear in SJ/RF/FJ more than any age or inconsistency issues.

 

Williams is injured.

 

Dumbest post of the day.

Drafted low ------> worked his butt off ----------> played great ----------> made everyone a believer ---------------> kept playing great -----------> got a big contract -------------> played like crap -----------------> got injured. See a pattern? Want to see it again with Fitz/Jackson/Johnson?

[ieatcrayonz]

bump because people from the other thread wanted to see this one.