John Adams Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 That's life my friend. Everyone here who has lost a job due to the place of business having to close or reduce staff because upper management !@#$ed up raise your hand. After you're done hand-raising, go protest in a major city park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 After you're done hand-raising, go protest in a major city park. After many years working in restaurants I had that happen to me all the time. My response was usually "excellent, I can go out and find a job that is better and pays me more." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Yeah, that's it, Straw Man. You may want to live an inflexible world that dictates that rules are rules and human intellect and problem solving play no part in our society, but I believe that common sense could play a part in finding an equitable solution (for ex., make them forfeit a game, and see were it goes from there; the school has to lose some privilege, pay a fine, etc. any solution whereby the players themselves don't bear the full brunt, that's not why we have sports in the first place). Sorry if that taxes your brain. If Holland forfeits a win and both teams are 14-2, how does that hurt the other team? What is the tie-breaker? Why should the other school advance when they are not the superior team? Settle it on the field. If the other teams wins a tie-breaker, then Holland is out. If Holland wins the tie-breaker, then they move on and the other team really has no reason to complain. You could still impose a fine or whatever on Holland but the players themselves win or lose on the field. A fine? Do they really levy fines in high school sports? Who pays it - the taxpayer? The AD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) A fine? Do they really levy fines in high school sports? Who pays it - the taxpayer? The AD? I don't think they do. He was just coming up with a way to protect the little darlings' feelings. Edited October 28, 2011 by Chef Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Actually, everyone is taking responsibility so you're only 100% wrong. The adults are teaching a great lesson. What you and others want is to pass the buck to the AD and blame one person. Shared responsibility is part of being something bigger. You prefer to say it is one persons fault and because of that, no rules should apply. That's no lesson except in how to avoid responsibility. Avoiding responsibility for something you're not responsible for? What a crazy concept. Kids paying for adults stupidity; yeah, great lesson. After many years working in restaurants I had that happen to me all the time. My response was usually "excellent, I can go out and find a job that is better and pays me more." What a pertinent and outstanding example. I'm sure most of those girls will simply rush out and get another gig with a playoff team. That's life my friend. Sucks for the kids, but that is life. Actually, life is what you make it. It's too bad that miserable pricks like y'all feel compelled to share their self-righteous misery with everybody else. Congrats on teaching the kids that life is full of uptight asshats; you must be very proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) Avoiding responsibility for something you're not responsible for? What a crazy concept. Kids paying for adults stupidity; yeah, great lesson. What a pertinent and outstanding example. I'm sure most of those girls will simply rush out and get another gig with a playoff team. Actually, life is what you make it. It's too bad that miserable pricks like y'all feel compelled to share their self-righteous misery with everybody else. Congrats on teaching the kids that life is full of uptight asshats; you must be very proud. No I'm feeling that you're the miserable one. So you're saying "just give it to them"? Edited October 28, 2011 by Chef Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 No I'm feeling that you're the miserable one. So you're saying "just give it to them"? Actually, my life is full of joy and positivity. You're the one who regularly seems to get off on raining on other people's parades. As for the situation at hand, it's not that complicated. You negate the the last game of the season that put them over the top, approach playoff seedings as if they were 14-2, remove the AD from their position and then move forward. The culpable party is removed for their stupid mistake and the kids who did nothing wrong continue to play on, as they deserve to. Screwing them with some imaginary life lesson is just stupid and petty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Actually, my life is full of joy and positivity. You're the one who regularly seems to get off on raining on other people's parades. As for the situation at hand, it's not that complicated. You negate the the last game of the season that put them over the top, approach playoff seedings as if they were 14-2, remove the AD from their position and then move forward. The culpable party is removed for their stupid mistake and the kids who did nothing wrong continue to play on, as they deserve to. Screwing them with some imaginary life lesson is just stupid and petty. So why have rules if everytime something bad happens to someone we just ignore them? So this offense is minor enough to let the girls play on but major enough to eliminate someone's livelyhood? Yeah, that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 No I'm feeling that you're the miserable one. So you're saying "just give it to them"? He is the one doing the bitching and we are the miserable ones? What a dip#$!% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 He is the one doing the bitching and we are the miserable ones? What a dip#$!% Well he did have a point about me pissing on people's parades. But that has nothing to do with me being miserable. Just the opposite as a matter of fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 1319834737[/url]' post='2294222']Well he did have a point about me pissing on people's parades. But that has nothing to do with me being miserable. Just the opposite as a matter of fact. The only one allowed to directly insult someone else on OT is Simon. Here comes the thread close, temporary vacation PMS moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Players and coaches, yeah. But the school AD is not part of that team; merely an administrator who works for the district. I'll agree to disagree but trashing those kids season by nullifying all the work they've put in doesn't teach any kind of valuable life lesson I can think of. Unless you consider that learning early on that most adults turn into buck-passing jackasses is a valuable lesson. But I'm guessing they already knew that one. I'll take a stab at it, but will preface with the fact that I don't feel nearly as strong on the issue and was just chiming in casually. I see your points and I'm not of the persuasion that they are wrong, as it is one of those issues that is cloudy. I hate to see the kids having to sit too. That said, there was a rule, there was a punishment. It was broken, and it was enforced. Love it or hate it, a team is normally more than the 6-12 players and a coach for any given sport. Everyone has stood up, taken their medicine, and admitted faults. Others suffering from your mistakes is not the same as passing the buck. With this, or any team, it's a great lesson to know that all you can do is go out, handle your task as well as you can, and stick in it together when stuff hits the fan. Sometimes you will catch breaks, sometimes you won't, but it's not a great idea to expect them. I don't think that's a terrible lesson. Sometimes you are going to do everything right, be the best, win win win.... And it just isn't going to work out how you'd hope. Cone back and beat them next year. They still got to play 17 games, still got to showcase their talents, still got to be a part of not just a small team but represent their school and community. They missed out on the trophy chance, but they should still be proud. all I can say is I get both sides. It tugs my heart on that one but the less emotional side is still saying it is what it is.... Reading this and the coach fired for cursing thread has really showcased the brooooad spectrum of views on amateur athletics around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I'll take a stab at it, but will preface with the fact that I don't feel nearly as strong on the issue and was just chiming in casually. I see your points and I'm not of the persuasion that they are wrong, as it is one of those issues that is cloudy. I hate to see the kids having to sit too. That said, there was a rule, there was a punishment. It was broken, and it was enforced. Love it or hate it, a team is normally more than the 6-12 players and a coach for any given sport. Everyone has stood up, taken their medicine, and admitted faults. Others suffering from your mistakes is not the same as passing the buck. With this, or any team, it's a great lesson to know that all you can do is go out, handle your task as well as you can, and stick in it together when stuff hits the fan. Sometimes you will catch breaks, sometimes you won't, but it's not a great idea to expect them. I don't think that's a terrible lesson. Sometimes you are going to do everything right, be the best, win win win.... And it just isn't going to work out how you'd hope. Cone back and beat them next year. They still got to play 17 games, still got to showcase their talents, still got to be a part of not just a small team but represent their school and community. They missed out on the trophy chance, but they should still be proud. all I can say is I get both sides. It tugs my heart on that one but the less emotional side is still saying it is what it is.... Reading this and the coach fired for cursing thread has really showcased the brooooad spectrum of views on amateur athletics around here. Just pisses me off when I see self-important "adults" with sticks up their asses pushing around kids who have done nothing wrong. And then hiding behind their tiny-minded "too bad, life is tough" attitude when they're the kind of overaged little hall monitors who are the ones that want to make life tough just to prove how (self)righteous they are. I hope those kids handle getting screwed by their inferiors with dignity and class, and then make sure they never grow up to be the kind of individual who put their own imaginary importance in front of decency and common sense. Here comes the thread close, temporary vacation PMS moment. Great prediction. Except, of course, for the fact that it has no basis in reality. But great call, nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Everyone here who has lost a job due to the place of business having to close or reduce staff because upper management !@#$ed up raise your hand. (closest thing to a hand raise I could find) I didn't lose my job, I left before they went under, which was about 2-3 months after I left. Everyone was leaving, we were having going away parties pretty much every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Just pisses me off when I see self-important "adults" with sticks up their asses pushing around kids who have done nothing wrong. And then hiding behind their tiny-minded "too bad, life is tough" attitude when they're the kind of overaged little hall monitors who are the ones that want to make life tough just to prove how (self)righteous they are. I hope those kids handle getting screwed by their inferiors with dignity and class, and then make sure they never grow up to be the kind of individual who put their own imaginary importance in front of decency and common sense. Great prediction. Except, of course, for the fact that it has no basis in reality. But great call, nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I hope those kids handle getting screwed by their inferiors with dignity and class, and then make sure they never grow up to be the kind of individual who put their own imaginary importance in front of decency and common sense. Agreed. Kids...Let this be a lesson to you. Don't grow up to be like Simon. A self-important nobody on a power trip, who allows his bitterness toward certain individuals to "force" him to crap all over an otherwise decent thread. He complains when other people do it (even ban people for it), but it is perfectly acceptable for him to do it. Hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Just pisses me off when I see self-important "adults" with sticks up their asses pushing around kids who have done nothing wrong. And then hiding behind their tiny-minded "too bad, life is tough" attitude when they're the kind of overaged little hall monitors who are the ones that want to make life tough just to prove how (self)righteous they are. I hope those kids handle getting screwed by their inferiors with dignity and class, and then make sure they never grow up to be the kind of individual who put their own imaginary importance in front of decency and common sense. Great prediction. Except, of course, for the fact that it has no basis in reality. But great call, nonetheless. Agreed that you shouldn't be hard on someone, just to toughen them up. Life has enough of that without me chipping in on it. I think it would make this a little easier for me if there was a clear competitive advantage gained with the extra game. Otherwise - part of it feels cheap to say a rule is a rule, if the punishments don't match the offense. That said, a rule is a rule and you don't get to pick and choose which are followed and then complain about it being enforced after. Maybe these girls will miss out on the trophy, but I think its the right way to handle it (like 60-40 split for me) Like my last post brushed by- I think with such broad views on amateur sports it brings a different element. What is the goal of this team when they show up day 1? Should it be a trophy? Growth? Learning the game? Fun? A little of everything is the obvious answer but how strongly each of us prioritize the different elements makes a difference in how you think the rules should be enforced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Just pisses me off when I see self-important "adults" with sticks up their asses pushing around kids who have done nothing wrong. Yup we're pushing kids around. And pointing out that rules are made for a reason and when they're broken there are consequences means we have sticks up our asses? Ooooookay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Yup we're pushing kids around. And pointing out that rules are made for a reason and when they're broken there are consequences means we have sticks up our asses? Ooooookay. Actually, I kind of wonder if the biggest disagreement we have on this issue stems from the fact that I really like kids and you just don't care for them that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Actually, I kind of wonder if the biggest disagreement we have on this issue stems from the fact that I really like kids and you just don't care for them that much. I think my argument shows I care for them in a different way. I prepare them for adulthood you coddle them to make the "feel good". Your attitude is why many kids are unprepared for the real world. I care for them for the long term you care for them today. You care about their feelings I care about building their attitude and personality for the long haul. So based on that, who cares more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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