bbb Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 Keith McShea, the main high school reporter for the News said the right call was made on Holland soccer. I think it was, too. Every high school and college has it in the rules about how many games can be played. It's always been that way. How can the AD and coach schedule an extra game? My link
Max Fischer Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 That will teach those girls. We need a rigid society that will not bend to common sense. Good lesson there.
John Adams Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 That will teach those girls. We need a rigid society that will not bend to common sense. Good lesson there. 1st place team 15-2, 2nd place team 14-2. Who deserves to advance? Rules matter. That seems like a good lesson.
Max Fischer Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 1st place team 15-2, 2nd place team 14-2. Who deserves to advance? Rules matter. That seems like a good lesson. So, Holland would not advance if they forfeit a win? What is the tiebreaker? Settle it on the field, not in court.
John Adams Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) So, Holland would not advance if they forfeit a win? What is the tiebreaker? Settle it on the field, not in court. It's not being settled in court. They violated a rule. They already lost. A game between 14-2 and 15-2 would only help the team that broke the rule and possibly hurt the team that didn't. Edited October 27, 2011 by John Adams
The Avenger Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 If you really want to teach a life lesson the girls should sue the district, the superintendent, the pricipal, the athletic director and the coach for emotional distress and lost future earnings because they didn't get into the colleges of their choice without a state championship on their applications. Yes sir, in this society there are rules and consequences and despite what the bumper sticker says, S&!# doesn't just happen - someone always has to pay and there's always an opportunity to sue.
Chef Jim Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 That will teach those girls. We need a rigid society that will not bend to common sense. Good lesson there. So your lesson is rules don't matter? I bet your kid's going to grow up to be a real !@#$.
bbb Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 From McShea's article: And that was that. Holland's season ended. And, unfortunately for the players, it should have. The girls didn't deserve it at all, but there is no other way for this story to end. A major rule was broken and there are, in the painfully appropriate words of Section VI girls soccer chairman Chris Durr, "severe consequences." It was too egregious a rule violation to be overlooked, which is why the New York State Public High School Athletic Association denied the school's final appeal Tuesday afternoon. High school sports can be so rewarding because of the life lessons they can provide, how experiences on the playing field can be applied to real life. This one, excruciatingly, is almost working the other way around. This was a very unfortunate breakdown in leadership from Holland's athletic department, one from which there was no bailout. Frankly, it is inexcusable to have scheduled — and played — too many games. But the life lessons are here, too. Holland coach Leanne Gedraitis and athletic director Allan Bett have been accountable for the error. "They've stood hand-in-hand and took responsibility and accountability," Principal James Biryla said in a telephone conversation from the school Tuesday evening. "And they're in there right now [meeting with players and their families]."
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted October 27, 2011 Posted October 27, 2011 Just saw them on yahoo homepage as a story
Simon Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Yeah rules suck. Great message to give to kids. You don't like the rules don't cry when you're punished for breaking one. Bullshi+. The girls aren't the ones who broke the rule. The AD who scheduled too many games is the one who broke the rule and should be punished. The worst the kids should get is to have the last game of the year taken off the record and if that costs them a playoff spot, so be it. If it doesn't they damned well ought to be playing right now.
NoSaint Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Bullshi+. The girls aren't the ones who broke the rule. The AD who scheduled too many games is the one who broke the rule and should be punished. The worst the kids should get is to have the last game of the year taken off the record and if that costs them a playoff spot, so be it. If it doesn't they damned well ought to be playing right now. Agree to disagree. I think this is a situation where the team has to be in it together- players, coaches, AD. when you are a part of a greater organization sometimes you have to answer for choices someone else makes. It might not be a feel good answer but I do think it's full of life lessons.
Simon Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Agree to disagree. I think this is a situation where the team has to be in it together- players, coaches, AD. when you are a part of a greater organization sometimes you have to answer for choices someone else makes. It might not be a feel good answer but I do think it's full of life lessons. Players and coaches, yeah. But the school AD is not part of that team; merely an administrator who works for the district. I'll agree to disagree but trashing those kids season by nullifying all the work they've put in doesn't teach any kind of valuable life lesson I can think of. Unless you consider that learning early on that most adults turn into buck-passing jackasses is a valuable lesson. But I'm guessing they already knew that one.
bbb Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 I don't think that their work is nullified - they're ranked number one in WNY small schools. I doubt that will change. They'll be able to tell their grandkids they were the number one team, but if they lost in the playoffs they wouldn't be able to say it.
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Why is it that a thread like this can't exist without people pontificating about how it somehow relates to the imaginary breakdown of American society?
John Adams Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Players and coaches, yeah. But the school AD is not part of that team; merely an administrator who works for the district. I'll agree to disagree but trashing those kids season by nullifying all the work they've put in doesn't teach any kind of valuable life lesson I can think of. Unless you consider that learning early on that most adults turn into buck-passing jackasses is a valuable lesson. But I'm guessing they already knew that one. Actually, everyone is taking responsibility so you're only 100% wrong. The adults are teaching a great lesson. What you and others want is to pass the buck to the AD and blame one person. Shared responsibility is part of being something bigger. You prefer to say it is one persons fault and because of that, no rules should apply. That's no lesson except in how to avoid responsibility.
Max Fischer Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 So your lesson is rules don't matter? I bet your kid's going to grow up to be a real !@#$. Yeah, that's it, Straw Man. You may want to live an inflexible world that dictates that rules are rules and human intellect and problem solving play no part in our society, but I believe that common sense could play a part in finding an equitable solution (for ex., make them forfeit a game, and see were it goes from there; the school has to lose some privilege, pay a fine, etc. any solution whereby the players themselves don't bear the full brunt, that's not why we have sports in the first place). Sorry if that taxes your brain. It's not being settled in court. They violated a rule. They already lost. A game between 14-2 and 15-2 would only help the team that broke the rule and possibly hurt the team that didn't. If Holland forfeits a win and both teams are 14-2, how does that hurt the other team? What is the tie-breaker? Why should the other school advance when they are not the superior team? Settle it on the field. If the other teams wins a tie-breaker, then Holland is out. If Holland wins the tie-breaker, then they move on and the other team really has no reason to complain. You could still impose a fine or whatever on Holland but the players themselves win or lose on the field.
John Adams Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 (edited) Yeah, that's it, Straw Man. You may want to live an inflexible world that dictates that rules are rules and human intellect and problem solving play no part in our society, but I believe that common sense could play a part in finding an equitable solution (for ex., make them forfeit a game, and see were it goes from there; the school has to lose some privilege, pay a fine, etc. any solution whereby the players themselves don't bear the full brunt, that's not why we have sports in the first place). Sorry if that taxes your brain. If Holland forfeits a win and both teams are 14-2, how does that hurt the other team? What is the tie-breaker? Why should the other school advance when they are not the superior team? Settle it on the field. If the other teams wins a tie-breaker, then Holland is out. If Holland wins the tie-breaker, then they move on and the other team really has no reason to complain. You could still impose a fine or whatever on Holland but the players themselves win or lose on the field. Which game does Holland forfeit? The one they won 6-0 that gives them the tiebreaker or the on they won 1-0 that lets the other team advance? Gee, I wonder which one they would pick. You don't open the door to stupidity like this. You follow the rules. When you break the rules, you pay the consequence under the rules. The rules were not ambiguous at all. Now you want to levy a fine that was not the penalty under the rule? You are just deciding arbitrary consequences? Anything else you want to change about the rules? Edited October 28, 2011 by John Adams
Chef Jim Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Bullshi+. The girls aren't the ones who broke the rule. The AD who scheduled too many games is the one who broke the rule and should be punished. The worst the kids should get is to have the last game of the year taken off the record and if that costs them a playoff spot, so be it. If it doesn't they damned well ought to be playing right now. That's life my friend. Everyone here who has lost a job due to the place of business having to close or reduce staff because upper management !@#$ed up raise your hand.
KRC Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 That's life my friend. Everyone here who has lost a job due to the place of business having to close or reduce staff because upper management !@#$ed up raise your hand. Exactly. Unless you own the company, you have to live by the bad decisions of your bosses. We all have to live with the consequences of bad decisions by our elected officials. You buy products where the bosses made bad decisions and you are impacted with substandard products. Life is filled with these types of things. The kids are now learning those lessons. Sucks for the kids, but that is life.
shrader Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Which game does Holland forfeit? The one they won 6-0 that gives them the tiebreaker or the on they won 1-0 that lets the other team advance? Gee, I wonder which one they would pick. You don't open the door to stupidity like this. You follow the rules. When you break the rules, you pay the consequence under the rules. The rules were not ambiguous at all. Now you want to levy a fine that was not the penalty under the rule? You are just deciding arbitrary consequences? Anything else you want to change about the rules? I say they void out one of their losses. It's only fair. The ones who lose out the most are obviously the girls. I can safely guess that not a single one of them was even aware of this rule. They're handed a schedule and they play it. I just wonder how something this could get past the administrators and even the league itself. No one caught this back in August/September and said "hey, you guys should probably remove one game from your schedule"?
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