Mr. WEO Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 They really need to follow, Green Bay's lead on remodeling the Stadium. Or they could follow the Jags lead--Weaver coughed up 85% of the renevation total before the local owner of the stadium signed him to a 27 year lease. True, its not extra money, but it is money that wouldn't be there if the Bills left town. If they want to keep that revenue stream open and continue to receive that, they need to be willing to invest it in upgrades to keep the stadium close to being up-to-date. The Bills aren't leaving town. The county and state don't believe this either.
CodeMonkey Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 If Bills' fans want the team to stay in Buffalo, then it will come at a price. The NFL is easily the most popular sport in the country, and the competition for franchises is intense. Whether we like it or not or want to believe it or not, the NFL does not owe the city a team. It seems to me that this deal is a relatively small price to pay for keeping the team. You are 100% correct! The Bills should pay for any and all renovations and, of course, pass the cost along to Bills fans in the form of higher tickets prices etc. The percentage of Bills fans in the entire state is ridiculously small. There is NO REASON for non Bills fans to pay for renovations to the Bills stadium!!!
Doc Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 Yes, as I said. "Not you" refers to you-perhaps that's what you meant? I never asked, nor did I care, where the money comes from.
CodeMonkey Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) If the state of NY signs on to this deal, you know that the ownership issue post Ralph Wilson is not an area of concern. Or, that the Buffalo politicians want to get reelected. Or, that NYS legislature is even less intelligent that we give them credit for. You make the call. Edited October 21, 2011 by CodeMonkey
cvanvol Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 Or they could follow the Jags lead--Weaver coughed up 85% of the renevation total before the local owner of the stadium signed him to a 27 year lease. The Bills aren't leaving town. The county and state don't believe this either. Has anyone heard of a team being relocated that had a solid fan base?? The supersonics maybe? I dont really know why that happened though ill have to do some research but I dont see a team that sells out its stadium moving.. wouldnt they raise prices first?
todd Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 Calculate the boost that the Bills give to the economy in WNY, and I'd say it is well worth the county / state spending 100 M for upgrades. The state benefits on many levels by having the Bills here, and stadium upgrades are part of the cost of ownership for a NFL team. If you don't do it, you lose the team and the $$ it brings your state. It is quite simple, really.
cvanvol Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 Hmmm read wikipedia but got a little bit out of it and it said the city wouldnt fund the arena renovations that a new ownership group wanted so they left... lets pay for all the bills renovation haha
Delete This Account Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 Why do you have a problem with a link to the article about the 1997 study? It's obviously out-of-date, and not directly applicable to today's calculation of costs and benefits. But unlike Collins' comments, it gives some insight into how the older study arrived at its conclusions. no, i was purely amused by how you posted a story to confirm what Collins had said, as if that had somehow been in doubt. jw ??????? see above.
RTW2012 Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 Has anyone heard of a team being relocated that had a solid fan base?? The supersonics maybe? I dont really know why that happened though ill have to do some research but I dont see a team that sells out its stadium moving.. wouldnt they raise prices first? All NFL team moves in the last 30 years have been due to aging inadequate facilities. Regarding other sports, the Atlanta Thrashers moving to Winnipeg was a result of lack of fan support. If the NHL lets the Phoenix Coyotes move it will be due to lack of support also. Even though the Sonics played in a facility that had been renovated recently (1995), by 2008 it was considered inadequate for the NBA and the Sonics moved to OKC.
apuszczalowski Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) All NFL team moves in the last 30 years have been due to aging inadequate facilities. Regarding other sports, the Atlanta Thrashers moving to Winnipeg was a result of lack of fan support. If the NHL lets the Phoenix Coyotes move it will be due to lack of support also. Even though the Sonics played in a facility that had been renovated recently (1995), by 2008 it was considered inadequate for the NBA and the Sonics moved to OKC. Phoenix also just built a brand new arena with a long term lease....... The Jets left Winnipeg the first time because they couldn't get the government funding to replace their aging arena. The Viking could move from Minneosota if they dont get government funding for a new stadium. I believe the Raiders moved from oakland to LA then back to oakland due to them not getting a new stadium. No Lease is "unbreakable" and able to keep a team from relocating if the owner has the money. What makes it worse is when the owner can turn a bigger profit elsewhere, and has funding help from the government to build a better facility. Besides someone who is a fan of the Bills and has LOADS of cash over a Billion, who else would look at the Bills, the local economy, the stadium, and the rest of the league and think that they are going to get a great return on their investment? Sure the team has loyal fans, but loyal fans don't mean you won't lose money. After putting up $800 mil to $1 billion to buy the team, you are still going to have to continue playing in an out of date stadium that is in probably the worst shape in the league, and right now you have some of the lowest ticket costs in the league. Without the government chipping in and paying to update a stadium that they are the owners of, thats additional money you would have to spend to atleast make an attempt to bring it up to date. You have that option, or buy them, pay the relocation fee and fee for breaking a lease, and move them to one of the largest US markets with a brand new stadium being promised (Los Angeles). You also have one of Canadas largest Cities/Markets less then 2 hours away that could be waiting for the chance to grab a team, and with talks of the Jays wanting a "Baseball Only" facility built to replace the Dome, a new football only stadium (or serious remodeling of the Dome for football only) could be done and can have a second tenant sharing the facility with the Argos in the CFL. Only problem there is that they would have to try again at convincing the Canadian government (or alteast the ontario government) to chip in and help The state could, and mostly like does, spend tax money on something worse then upgrading RWS....... Edited October 21, 2011 by apuszczalowski
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 no, i was purely amused by how you posted a story to confirm what Collins had said, as if that had somehow been in doubt. jw Although I did read your article that the OP posted a link to, I somehow missed the part about the Collins $20 million estimate. In hindsight, I can see how you interpreted my posting a separate link to an article by other sportswriters to confirm that fact as a jab at you - - but that wasn't my intent.
eme123 Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 4 years? Numbers please. My link According to Collins the ROI is 25% year over year.
Mr. WEO Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Has anyone heard of a team being relocated that had a solid fan base?? The supersonics maybe? I dont really know why that happened though ill have to do some research but I dont see a team that sells out its stadium moving.. wouldnt they raise prices first? You mean other than the Browns and the Colts? Also, the Sonics had trouble drawing fans to games. Calculate the boost that the Bills give to the economy in WNY, and I'd say it is well worth the county / state spending 100 M for upgrades. The state benefits on many levels by having the Bills here, and stadium upgrades are part of the cost of ownership for a NFL team. If you don't do it, you lose the team and the $$ it brings your state. It is quite simple, really. Not for the Bills. My link According to Collins the ROI is 25% year over year. Collins is mistaken. The 20 million that the Bills pay in taxes (really?) per year is already in the state revenue stream/budget and paying for whatever NYS pays for. It would not pay for the extra 100 million for the stadium unless the state connected that money to a decrease in funding for something else in their budget going forward. Of course, that's never going to happen. Edited October 21, 2011 by Mr. WEO
CodeMonkey Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 Has anyone heard of a team being relocated that had a solid fan base?? The supersonics maybe? I dont really know why that happened though ill have to do some research but I dont see a team that sells out its stadium moving.. wouldnt they raise prices first? There is infinitely more too it than a supportive fan base and selling out the stadium. The NFL is a business that wants to maximize it's profits. Buffalo is a small market poor blue collar town and the NFL can make much more money having a team in a affluent large market. It's not fans, its economics. Even a white knight would have trouble keeping the team in Buffalo in my opinion, but only time will tell.
dpberr Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 Or, that the Buffalo politicians want to get reelected. Or, that NYS legislature is even less intelligent that we give them credit for. You make the call. It'd be political suicide for the folks in Albany to use taxpayer money to upgrade the stadium without assurances. Politicians aren't smart but they have a keen sense of self preservation. I'm probably in the minority on this issue but while the public has not been privy to the details, I've thought that the post-Wilson succession plan has been in place for years and this (upgrades to the stadium) is a calculated step in the process.
cvanvol Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 There is infinitely more too it than a supportive fan base and selling out the stadium. The NFL is a business that wants to maximize it's profits. Buffalo is a small market poor blue collar town and the NFL can make much more money having a team in a affluent large market. It's not fans, its economics. Even a white knight would have trouble keeping the team in Buffalo in my opinion, but only time will tell. I dont think thats true really... If a team goes to LA and cant draw fans or support they wont stay there just because of the market. It'd be political suicide for the folks in Albany to use taxpayer money to upgrade the stadium without assurances. Politicians aren't smart but they have a keen sense of self preservation. I'm probably in the minority on this issue but while the public has not been privy to the details, I've thought that the post-Wilson succession plan has been in place for years and this (upgrades to the stadium) is a calculated step in the process. I think that the plan is in place but this isnt truly a part of it stadium upgrades have been around and will be around forever no matter the owner or the plan. You mean other than the Browns and the Colts? Also, the Sonics had trouble drawing fans to games. Not for the Bills. Collins is mistaken. The 20 million that the Bills pay in taxes (really?) per year is already in the state revenue stream/budget and paying for whatever NYS pays for. It would not pay for the extra 100 million for the stadium unless the state connected that money to a decrease in funding for something else in their budget going forward. Of course, that's never going to happen. I think he was just saying that the bills make money for the state and that the money earned through the bills will ultimately be more than what it would cost to invest in the upgrades. Not that the bills taxes go directly to the renovations.
QCity Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 There is NO REASON for non Bills fans to pay for renovations to the Bills stadium!!! There's 20 million reasons. That's the amount of direct revenue the Bills bring to NY state each year. Why is this so hard to understand?
cvanvol Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 There's 20 million reasons. That's the amount of direct revenue the Bills bring to NY state each year. Why is this so hard to understand? Why do people not get this??? THE BILLS MAKE THE STATE MONEY TO KEEP MAKING THAT MONEY YOU KEEP THE BUSINESS HAPPY no, i was purely amused by how you posted a story to confirm what Collins had said, as if that had somehow been in doubt. jw see above. Hahah read the last three or four posts somehow people dont get it
mattsox Posted October 21, 2011 Posted October 21, 2011 Thats it Russ. Get the county/state taxpayers to fund stadium improvements, but make sure they include "revenue generating enhancements" to improve Ralph's bottom line. :lol: Seems worth it for the Tax Payers. Since it's being used a WHOLE WAPPING 8x a YEAR.
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