Coach Tuesday Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Yes it's a lot to pay, but the NFL is a win-now league and Oakland has a good chance to win their division. They simply can't tank a promising season. To paraphrase Warden Norton, the Raiders need a QB. Not tomorrow, not after breakfast, now. I would add to that that the Raiders are generating fan excitement and actually selling out games for the first time in about a decade. They need to capitalize on that momentum, especially in light of the fact that their owner just died and LA is eying them as a potential move. There is more to this trade than Xs and Os. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I think the Herschel Walker deal was worse, but I agree this is still a very bad trade for the Raiders! You don't give up two firsts, or a first and a second, for a guy as old as Carson Palmer! Carson Palmer was chosen first overall back in 2001. Considering the kind of price the Bengals will be getting for him, I decided to take a look at the value the Bills have received from their former first round picks. 2000: Erik Flowers. Result: released 2001: Nate Clements. Result: first contract and out 2002: Mike Williams. Result: released after a few years. 2003a: Drew Bledsoe. Result: released after three years 2003b: Willis McGahee. Result: traded away for two third rounders and a seventh round pick. 2004a: Lee Evans. Result: traded away for a fourth rounder after seven years with the team. 2004b: JP Losman. Result: released after a few years with the team. 2006a: Donte Whitner. Result: first contract and out 2006b: John McCargo. Result: released after a few years with the team 2007: Marshawn Lynch. Result: traded away for fourth and sixth round picks. At least based on trade value, Carson Palmer is worth more than all ten of those guys put together. And by a very wide margin, too! I attribute this to several factors: 1) The Raiders are overpaying for Palmer. He's old, and his play has declined. 2) The Bills have not received fair compensation for some of their departing players (like Clements). 3) There are quite a few busts on the above list of Bills' first round picks. 4) In the past, the Bills have focused their draft day resources on the wrong positions. In 2006, they could have used the eighth overall pick on Jay Cutler. Cutler was recently traded away for two first round picks; because good QBs are very valuable. Instead, the Bills used the eighth overall pick on Whitner. Based on the contract Whitner ultimately signed, the Bills would have gotten almost nothing for him had they traded him away a year early. Likewise, the fourth and sixth round picks obtained by trading away Lynch demonstrate the relatively low value attributed to a standard-issue starting RB. 32 ain't that old for a big-armed QB who can still play, and you can' compare qbs to rbs anyway. To paraphrase Herman Edwards, you play to win the game. Now. The Raiders are good, and could easily be 5-1. I hate the idea of putting the season in the hands of a bad qb like Boller when you can go out there and enhance your chances of winning *now*. The future is consistently overrated by NFL fans ... I wouldn't be surprised if the trade gets voided because he fails a physical. The guy hasn't been around football for close a year. His conditioning can't be at game level. You're joking, right? He played the entire season last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Worst trade in NFL history. Worse that peerless price for a 1st!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haven Moses Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Raiders still have to make a move to get under the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I think the Herschel Walker deal was worse, but I agree this is still a very bad trade for the Raiders! You don't give up two firsts, or a first and a second, for a guy as old as Carson Palmer! Carson Palmer was chosen first overall back in 2001. Now they're getting a very nice price for trading him away! Bearing this in mind, I decided to take a look at the value the Bills have received from their former first round picks. 2000: Erik Flowers. Result: released 2001: Nate Clements. Result: first contract and out 2002: Mike Williams. Result: released after a few years. 2003a: Drew Bledsoe. Result: released after three years 2003b: Willis McGahee. Result: traded away for two third rounders and a seventh round pick. 2004a: Lee Evans. Result: traded away for a fourth rounder. Was with the team seven years. 2004b: JP Losman. Result: released after a few years with the team. 2006a: Donte Whitner. Result: first contract and out 2006b: John McCargo. Result: released after a few years with the team 2007: Marshawn Lynch. Result: traded away for fourth and sixth round picks. At least based on trade value, Carson Palmer is worth more than all ten of those guys put together. And by a very wide margin, too! I attribute this to several factors: 1) The Raiders are overpaying for Palmer. He's old, and his play has declined. 2) The Bills have not received fair compensation for some of their departing players (like Clements). 3) There are quite a few busts on the above list of Bills' first round picks. 4) In the past, the Bills have focused their draft day resources on the wrong positions. In 2006, they could have used the eighth overall pick on Jay Cutler. Cutler was recently traded away for two first round picks; because good QBs are very valuable. Instead, the Bills squandered the eighth overall pick on a SS. Based on the contract Whitner ultimately signed, the Bills would have gotten almost nothing for him had they traded him away a year early. Likewise, the fourth and sixth round picks obtained by trading away Lynch demonstrate the relatively low value attributed to a standard-issue starting RB. I don't understand this post. You start by saying this is a bad trade for the Raiders, then illustrate how worthless first rounders have been for the Bills. #1, not sure how relevant that is to the Raiders, but #2, if their drafting history is similar to the Bills', it makes this look like a great trade. So the bulk of your post either doesn't support or undercuts your initial statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) Just because Carson Palmer played last year has nothing to do with what his conditioning is now. We really don't know what he has been doing but it hasn't been playing football with any NFL team. Players have failed physicals in a lot less worse situations. The offseason and training camp is extremely important for a QB in preparation for the season, not only to learn the offense and chemistry with the players but conditioning as well. Carson will be obviously behind on both. Edited October 18, 2011 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Garrard needs surgery. Lisa Needs Braces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 LAR is the last stop on the way out of the NFL. Will be interesting to see his cannon arm matched with all those 4.2 40 guys.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Carson Palmer is a Drew Bledsoe clone in just about every way imaginable. This is the Bledsoe trade all over again. Palmer is not nearly as brain dead as Drew, not even close. Raiders still gave up way too much imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Stupid, stupid move. Palmer was done years ago and doesn't even know the Raiders' system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 lol at the Raiders this is the worst trade in nfl history. Wow, watch out for Cinci in the next couple years. Great young defense. QB can play. Best WR in the league. watch out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I wonder who the Raiders are going to cut to squeeze that new salary in under the cap. Hopefully a good pass rusher that the Bills can pick up The Bengals might be the team to watch in the next 2-4 years. We are the team to watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I would add to that that the Raiders are generating fan excitement and actually selling out games for the first time in about a decade. They need to capitalize on that momentum, especially in light of the fact that their owner just died and LA is eying them as a potential move. There is more to this trade than Xs and Os. Absolutely right. Obviously this is a huge win for Cincy regardless, but that doesn't mean it can't also be a win for Oakland. If Palmer takes them to the playoffs, it validates the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrojanitor Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 that deal is insane. I like Carson Palmer, always felt he was a bit underrated. But holy cats that is way too much to give for him. Possibly 2 firsts? plus already giving the skins some picks for Cambell...their entire draft this year will be like 2 guys. And all for a guy who hasn't played in a year? And is kind of a baby? And is 31 and prone to injury? Terrible deal for the Raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) If he plays well, it's a great trade for the Raiders. A franchise QB is easily worth two late first rounders (late because we're assuming for a second that Palmer plays well). Today's NFL is all about the QB, and the Raiders are reasonably stacked on both sides of the ball already. Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, yes. Carson Palmer??? NO! The title of "franchise QB" seems to be one we throw around freely. They would receive much more of a bounty than Oakland's two first rounders No one, except the Raiders, are that crazy. PTR Edited October 18, 2011 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Absolutely right. Obviously this is a huge win for Cincy regardless, but that doesn't mean it can't also be a win for Oakland. If Palmer takes them to the playoffs, it validates the trade. I don't understand this trade KD. And, it might not go over to well in the locker room. Campbell has been holding players only meetings (according to SIRIUS Radio) to motivate the team, etc. And, they are currently 3rd in the AFC in points scored. Cincy, if they don't screw it up, can be a great team sooner than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 If this trade was speculated on April 1st about giving up a 1st and a conditional 1st, I wouldn't have believed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstealer Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 What an amazing deal for the Bengals. They already have a top 5 defense with an upcoming QB/WR tandem, plus now they have six picks in the first 2 rounds of the next 2 years. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 32 ain't that old for a big-armed QB who can still play, and you can' compare qbs to rbs anyway. To paraphrase Herman Edwards, you play to win the game. Now. The Raiders are good, and could easily be 5-1. I hate the idea of putting the season in the hands of a bad qb like Boller when you can go out there and enhance your chances of winning *now*. The future is consistently overrated by NFL fans ... Even though I don't think this will pan out well for the Raiders (Palmer is in steep decline, IMO, and isn't likely to help them out all that much this year, which is what they need), that line, sir, is perhaps the best thing I have read here in some time! And oh so true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstealer Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Raiders still have to make a move to get under the cap. Offer a fifth for Campbell and go up to a fourth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts