1B4IDie Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) I don't know man. That is a lot of supposition to try to explain away his very real and factual performance. It's not a fluke. It is proven performance. I freakin hate how we didn't get anything out of this guy and I curse his name in large part because he wasn't Orakpo which was the obvious choice for anyone with more than a partially functioning brain stem. Sorry to play devils advocate here but I think you are looking at it backwards. Maybe if we DID have someone like Maybin that could get to the QB our DBs wouldn't look as bad as they do. Maybe if we had a guy that could "get up off the ground" as you put it and could pressure the QB inside the 5th second then our DBs wouldn't be getting burned in the 6th, 7th and 8th seconds. There wasn't a truer statement. Orakpo was the obvious pick. I don't think you can count on a 5-6 second sack. If you watch the play its clear that Maybin isn't playing LB LB. Which is what the Bills need. He is playing "Safety Blitz LB" which I still think wouldn't help. But to your point, yeah if we got to a situation where the play is extended, it would be nice if someone got to the QB. Still Maybin on the roster doesn't make the defense better imo. If you call Spiller a "luxury" pick. Maybin is playing like a "luxury pick" when the Bills can't afford that luxury. Edited October 24, 2011 by Why So Serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 All you are doing is harping on stats. You don't know anything about how those sacks were achieved, just that Maybin has some. Maybin is crap, pure and simple. PTR +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Gailey is a strict system guy. He doesn't build schemes and design plays around the existing talent. Sometimes that works sometimes it doesn't. I'm afraid maybin is an example of where some flexibility would have been to the teams benefit. I think most people here would disagree with you vehemently on the Gailey/Flexibility issue. I've been reading all season about how he built the offense around the specific talents of his players. Same was said about him in Kansas City, Miami, and Pittsburgh. I think more to the point… Gailey does not coach the defense… Theyd be vehemently wrong too. It was his decision to switch to 3 4 even though we had 4 3 personell. He was publicly on maybins case. It's clear he makes personell decisions along with nix on the entire team. He let Evans get away for next to nothing not because he didn't have demonstrated skills but because he gave up on him fitting his system I was responding specifically to your statement that Gailey "doesn't build schemes and design plays around the existing talent." I disagreed with that statement but suggested that if the statement had any truth, it's more true on the defensive side because Gailey coaches the offense (and is considered a creative offensive coach) but only delegates the defense. I think if Edwards/Wannstedt were as flexible on defense as Gailey is on offense, that there's a better possibility (not a certainty) that the Bills would have found a role for Maybin as have Ryan and the Jets. Finally, in your latest post you've introduced the element of personnel decisions which you hadn't articulated earlier. Certainly it goes without saying that Gailey has a strong say in personnel decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Gailey is a strict system guy. He doesn't build schemes and design plays around the existing talent. Sometimes that works sometimes it doesn't. I'm afraid maybin is an example of where some flexibility would have been to the teams benefit. Gailey is the exact OPPOSITE of that! Have you not seen the Bills' offense and the myriad of adjustments they're constantly making? You're completely off base here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meark Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Ditto...saw the play live, maybin shed a cut block by a RB...by shed, I mean he didn't fall over top of the guy; however, 9 out of 10 times, the block would have been good enough. That was a coverage sack in which Rivers held the ball longer than he needed to an Maybin chased him down...It wasn't a very impressive play, at all. I saw the play live also.. Matthews is pretty small and not a very good blocker. If they would have had Tolbert in blocking on that play the sack would have never happened. I would say the sack was because of poor blocking by the RB vs a great play by Maybin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I saw the play live also.. Matthews is pretty small and not a very good blocker. If they would have had Tolbert in blocking on that play the sack would have never happened. I would say the sack was because of poor blocking by the RB vs a great play by Maybin. And the secondary . . . it took about 4 seconds. You can see Rivers have more than enough time to pump it, but the recovers were covered. Matthews blocked well enough to give Rivers the time to throw to the hot read but not well enough for time for a Brady-esque read the NY Times pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Maybin had to go. That's a fact. But all you "Maybin is crap" guys...let us not fool ourselves. This is cause for a raised eye brow and if he somehow gets another 5 of these this year then it's a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonramz Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 maybin is hustling to the QB... I will give him credit for that... but that sack is credited to Rex Ryan... he got Maybin matched up on a bad pass blocking RB, while the center and right guard had nobody to block Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) It is unfortunate that he did virtually nothing for the Bills and has already provided a modest ROI for the Jets, but that is the way it goes. It still doesn't change the fact that he was NEVER going to be a difference-maker for the Bills, nor does it change the fact that the Bills were foolish to invest such a high draft pick on him. Maybin was and is a fringe player. He has a great first step but no other appreciable skills. That makes him a decent pass rusher in obvious passing situations, where he can come after the QB unimpeded. His lack of strength and agility means that he is never going to be suited for an every-down role. Hence, for a defense like the Bills' that was and is poor and in desperate need of an impact player, he was a colossal bust. Meanwhile, for a proven defense like the Jets', he is a worthy role player. Edited October 24, 2011 by 2003Contenders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) PromoTheRobot, on 23 October 2011 - 01:27 PM, said: All you are doing is harping on stats. You don't know anything about how those sacks were achieved, just that Maybin has some. Maybin is crap, pure and simple. PTR +1 Let's do a little logical proof. If Maybin with 3 sacks is crap pure and simple????....what is an entire team with 4 sacks? DISLAIMER: Crap he may be but pure and simple it isn't. maybin is hustling to the QB... I will give him credit for that... but that sack is credited to Rex Ryan... he got Maybin matched up on a bad pass blocking RB, while the center and right guard had nobody to block So you're saying that a defensive minded coach put his player in the right position to be successful and the player came through? Edited October 24, 2011 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePebble19 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 My bottom line thought on Maybin is this... It is not like he is playing every single snap for the Jets. He is a situational pass rusher, coming in for a max of what, 10-15 plays per game? For 525k, he is doing a great job for them...even at a raise, and for a little bit higher money, he would be doing a great job in his role. For the 20 million we were paying him, it wasn't worth it. We needed a STARTING LB, and he wasn't it. Aaron Maybin is what he is. A high motor, undersized, situational pass rusher with one move. Nothing more, nothing less. He is able to acheive this to it's full potential because the Jets have a much better front 7, and defensive scheme than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 My bottom line thought on Maybin is this... It is not like he is playing every single snap for the Jets. He is a situational pass rusher, coming in for a max of what, 10-15 plays per game? For 525k, he is doing a great job for them...even at a raise, and for a little bit higher money, he would be doing a great job in his role. For the 20 million we were paying him, it wasn't worth it. We needed a STARTING LB, and he wasn't it. Aaron Maybin is what he is. A high motor, undersized, situational pass rusher with one move. Nothing more, nothing less. He is able to acheive this to it's full potential because the Jets have a much better front 7, and defensive scheme than we do. This I agree with 100%. If we could have kept him on our roster for ~$500K a year I wouldn't have minded if we could have found a use for him as the Jets had. If we were still paying his fat rookie contract no way in hell was he worth it at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 This is the mindset that is so stupid. First off, this is a message board, its where you second guess ****. Second off, the point is why did he not work for the Bills and then work VERY well for our division rivals. He wasn't even getting put on the field by Gailey and we all said "wow, this must be because he really sucks". Well, guess what. His numbers on the Jets don't lie. I'd love to hear Gailey/Nix explain this. They missed. Plain and simple. They missed. It happens. But its time for Bills fans to be comfortable in criticizing Nix and Gailey. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I don't think Maybin is going to be an impact player in the league. With that said, think about this... Maybin goes to another team and starts producing. What player on the defensive side of the ball has made strides under George Edwards? Moats is really the only guy that has come on from being unknown or under performing, and that is in spite of Edwards' defense trying to move him to ILB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveinElma Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 People shouldn't get crazy about Maybin being good until 1) He beats a tackle in the regular season off the snap with his speed move and gets a sack. He has yet to do that. 2) He develops an inside pass rush move. He still hasn't down that. 3) Contributes even modestly in run support. He still hasn't done that. He has 3 sacks, 1)He ran about 2 miles past Oher and then lucked out that McKinnie and the other rusher blocked Oher from Maybin. 2)He chased down Matt Moore near the sideline while he was in coverage-good hustle play in space but he wasn't even rushing the passer on the play. 3) rex's scheme got him into the backfield unblocked and for some reason the RB went low on Maybin. He hustles like he did in Buffalo but he's still nowhere near a reliable pass rushing threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 People shouldn't get crazy about Maybin being good until 1) He beats a tackle in the regular season off the snap with his speed move and gets a sack. He has yet to do that. 2) He develops an inside pass rush move. He still hasn't down that. 3) Contributes even modestly in run support. He still hasn't done that. He has 3 sacks, 1)He ran about 2 miles past Oher and then lucked out that McKinnie and the other rusher blocked Oher from Maybin. 2)He chased down Matt Moore near the sideline while he was in coverage-good hustle play in space but he wasn't even rushing the passer on the play. 3) rex's scheme got him into the backfield unblocked and for some reason the RB went low on Maybin. He hustles like he did in Buffalo but he's still nowhere near a reliable pass rushing threat. All well and good but the irrefutable fact remains that Maybin has 3 sacks and the entire Bills team has 4 sacks. If Maybin is a piece of crap waste of space then what does that say of our entire defense? You can't look at his performance in a vacuum and NOT compare it to how our TEAM is doing. It's just disgustingly ironic as hell that the under performing piece of junk that we got rid of has almost single handedly equaled our entire teams sack production. Make all the excuses you want. The numbers speak for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Well said. No, it's not. Suggesting Gailey and Nix "missed" by cutting an overpaid situational rush-only LB playing at the size of a safety simply because he's had a couple of junk sacks for the Jets is about as ridiculous as it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleed Bills Blue Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 All I know is, if he keeps up this "torrid" pace and stays healthy, he'll overtake Bruce Smith sometime during the 2023 season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I would be ecstatic if Merriman could beat a RB for a sack. Maybin has 3 sacks and the Buffalo Bills have 4 sacks. Draw your own conclusions but he is nearly as effective as our whole team getting to the QB. Pisses me off something fierce but it is what it is. If we rushed more than 4 guys, we'd see some mismatches. But as it is, Merriman is constantly on a tackle and sometimes a tackle and a RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 If we rushed more than 4 guys, we'd see some mismatches. But as it is, Merriman is constantly on a tackle and sometimes a tackle and a RB. This. If you don't think Shawne Merriman was being played differently than Aaron Maybin is, you're watching the wrong games. I doubt offensive coordinators spend a fifth of the time on countering Maybin as they do Merriman. We drafted him to be Shawne Merriman. He's not. He fills a niche role in New Jersey very well, but he was never going to do that here and satisfy people. Let's just let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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