Heitz Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 he did not. it's been a well-worn statement that's been used for many years. you can disagree with the cliche' but just because you haven't heard it, doesn't make it foreign or "made up." gees. why is this so difficult. jw No John, people here have never heard it, therefore it does not exist. Clearly you haven't spend enough time on TBD to know how things here work. Or, *I* haven't seen you spending enough time for you to know how things work, therefore you haven't and don't.
cvanvol Posted October 11, 2011 Author Posted October 11, 2011 it is a very old saying around football. i fyou rsafeties are leading the team in tackling it usually isn't a good sign. Not saying it means that buffalo's d is bad or that the safeties aren't making those tackles near the LOS or in the O backfield. Think about it, safeties are the deepest guys usually on the field ie why they are called safeties...last guy you have to beat to score. I am totally not argueing whether the Bills safeties are making touchdown saving tackles, just pointing out that it is a very old saying. Ask any coach or player the question, "what does it say about a defense if the safety is leading the team in tackles?" and see what they respond with. I get the premise behind it and them being the last line of defense but watching george wilson on sunday I dont think its the case for this team. No John, people here have never heard it, therefore it does not exist. Clearly you haven't spend enough time on TBD to know how things here work. Or, *I* haven't seen you spending enough time for you to know how things work, therefore you haven't and don't. Now i remember why it isnt enjoyable to post here.
Mini Max Anderson Fan Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 he did not. it's been a well-worn statement that's been used for many years. you can disagree with the cliche' but just because you haven't heard it, doesn't make it foreign or "made up." gees. why is this so difficult. jw I have to agree, the phrase has been around forever, longer then jw even! BTW, good to see you here jw, I enjoy reading you're Bills' articles.
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) Now i remember why it isnt enjoyable to post here. Because people take you to task since you've never heard one of football's rules of thumb? Not to mention, you accused someone of making it up? Yeah, if I posted stuff like that I wouldn't like the responses I got either. Edited October 11, 2011 by BEAST MODE BABY!
Mini Max Anderson Fan Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 I get the premise behind it and them being the last line of defense but watching george wilson on sunday I dont think its the case for this team. Now i remember why it isnt enjoyable to post here. Sometimes we create our own problem by not seeing what is in front of our faces. Many people have commented that they have heard of the phrase and it's intended meaning (safeties making tackles usually is a bad thing). Think back to last year, lil Donte had a ton of tackles way down field. Anyway, tis true, accept it and move on is my best advice (unwanted as it is).
cvanvol Posted October 11, 2011 Author Posted October 11, 2011 Sometimes we create our own problem by not seeing what is in front of our faces. Many people have commented that they have heard of the phrase and it's intended meaning (safeties making tackles usually is a bad thing). Think back to last year, lil Donte had a ton of tackles way down field. Anyway, tis true, accept it and move on is my best advice (unwanted as it is). I understand that and as i said if people have heard of it I can accept that, I do think it does reflect on most teams especially last years bills. However, if you look at the TFL stats while not that impressive those same 3 DBs also lead in those categories and watching George Wilson constanly right at the line of scrimmage I dont think it reflects very well on this years team.
CSBill Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 I'll say this, in watching my DVR rerun, our Defense look far more athletic with Sheppard, Moats, and Carrington, then it had the previous weeks --- I think it will only get better, than again, I guess it only has one direction to go. Well, my point, I think the tools are there, just need the experience and execution.
nucci Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Mark Richt (horrible coach) also said this "Then when it does come and there’s a lead blocker on them, that they do have to fit properly and try to get things to bounce outside. That’s what you hope to do with a team like this. If they start splitting you vertically, you are in trouble. Your safeties are trying to make tackles and it’s going to be a long day" I guess i can come to grips with the fact that it has been said in some fashion. One of the oldest cliches i think not. That would depend on how old you are. That saying has been around for a very long time.
cvanvol Posted October 11, 2011 Author Posted October 11, 2011 Because people take you to task since you've never heard one of football's rules of thumb? Not to mention, you accused someone of making it up? Yeah, if I posted stuff like that I wouldn't like the responses I got either. I said that I would accept it if others had heard it.I didnt accuse him of making up the cliche I meant that as the quote I thought it would be from a coach or an analyst but the only thing I could find is that mark richt comment that is vaguely similar.
Delete This Account Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) Mark Richt (horrible coach) also said this "Then when it does come and there’s a lead blocker on them, that they do have to fit properly and try to get things to bounce outside. That’s what you hope to do with a team like this. If they start splitting you vertically, you are in trouble. Your safeties are trying to make tackles and it’s going to be a long day" I guess i can come to grips with the fact that it has been said in some fashion. One of the oldest cliches i think not. stop it please. it's a cliche. cliche's are generally old. what point are you trying to prove here? that you were capable of writing a letter to the editor to Chuck Pollock or that you don't know everything. both are evident, though the latter we all generally accept to be true for all of us. for some reason in regards to you, it seems to be a surprise. jw ADD: and don't try to get out of this with the well-worn excuse that posters use when the thread they started didn't turn out the way they thought it might: "Oh, now i know why i don't post here often." bah-loney. you got off to a good start with making a point in sending Pollock a letter. but then you got off on this silly little tangent that has lead this thread into an altogether other direction. and you led us there. here's a cliche that you might or might not know (and i swear i didn't make it up): "you should've quit while you were ahead." Edited October 11, 2011 by john wawrow
Kelly the Dog Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) I get the premise behind it and them being the last line of defense but watching george wilson on sunday I dont think its the case for this team. George Wilson made 11 tackles on sunday. Those 11 plays were after gains of... 19 yards... -3 2 11 11 15 15 1 12 53 5 The average yards on the plays that Wilson made the tackle on was 12.8 yards. I don't know why you would, but if you threw out the 53 yarder the average play he made the tackle on was 8.8 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. And George Wilson had a great game. That's why you don't want your safeties making the majority of your tackles. The Eagles gained a lot of yards. Their average play overall was 8.2 compared to the 12.8 of the Wilson tackles. If, again, you threw out the 53 yard run to make Wilson's average 8.8, the Eagles averaged 7.4 yards on all plays but the 53 yarder. So Wilson's tackles were about 1.5 yards worse than tackles made by other Bills if you just ignored a 53 yard play he made the tackle on. http://www.nfl.com/l...UF_Gamebook.pdf Edited October 11, 2011 by Kelly the Dog
cvanvol Posted October 11, 2011 Author Posted October 11, 2011 stop it please. it's a cliche. cliche's are generally old. what point are you trying to prove here? that you were capable of writing a letter to the editor to Chuck Pollock or that you don't know everything. both are evident, though the latter we all generally accept to be true for all of us. for some reason in regards to you, it seems to be a surprise. jw Hahahhaaha thanks for jumping all over me. I was wrong I ge that. I understand why that would be the case if your safeties are forced to make a lot of tackles. I didnt hear it so often that it would be one of the oldest cliches. My point was that I dont think that is our problems. I think that the play of George Wilson kind of alluded to that fact on sunday. I also pointed out that Barnett is in the top ten of the league for tackles. Thats what you want from your MLB. Our other LBs may be suspect and maybe the DL hasnt had that many stops. Is our DL and OLB that far behind from others in the league? stop it please. it's a cliche. cliche's are generally old. what point are you trying to prove here? that you were capable of writing a letter to the editor to Chuck Pollock or that you don't know everything. both are evident, though the latter we all generally accept to be true for all of us. for some reason in regards to you, it seems to be a surprise. jw ADD: and don't try to get out of this with the well-worn excuse that posters use when the thread they started didn't turn out the way they thought it might: "Oh, now i know why i don't post here often." bah-loney. you got off to a good start with making a point in sending Pollock a letter. but then you got off on this silly little tangent that has lead this thread into an altogether other direction. and you led us there. here's a cliche that you might or might not know (and i swear i didn't make it up): "you should've quit while you were ahead." That wasnt trying to get out of it as im obviously still here. Take it as me being thin skinned about that or however you want I just thought that your sarcasm was uncalled for. Maybe its just you sticking up for a fellow journalist but I still dont see where that quote came from and thats what I meant by him "making it up". Maybe I should have quit and this is probably just digging it deeper but I didnt agree with the article so i contacted him and put it here to see some other points of view. George Wilson made 11 tackles on sunday. Those 11 plays were after gains of... 19 yards... -3 2 11 11 15 15 1 12 53 5 The average yards on the plays that Wilson made the tackle on was 12.8 yards. I don't know why you would, but if you threw out the 53 yarder the average play he made the tackle on was 8.8 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. And George Wilson had a great game. That's why you don't want your safeties making the majority of your tackles. The Eagles gained a lot of yards. Their average play overall was 8.2 compared to the 12.8 of the Wilson tackles. If, again, you threw out the 53 yard run to make Wilson's average 8.8, the Eagles averaged 7.4 yards on all plays but the 53 yarder. So Wilson's tackles were about 1.5 yards worse than tackles made by other Bills if you just ignored a 53 yard play he made the tackle on. http://www.nfl.com/l...UF_Gamebook.pdf The 15 yarder and the 53 yarder are the only long runs. That average is bad and I wont leave the 53 yarded out even though it was a broken play scramble.
Throwback Bills Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Most teams we have played have gone heavy on the pass. With that shouldn't your safeties and corners be making the tackles?
cvanvol Posted October 11, 2011 Author Posted October 11, 2011 cvanvol, please just let this one go, man. Alright I was wrong, my bad guys.
dpberr Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 My first impression is that do I care so long as the Bills keep winning? No. Outside of analyzing tackle distribution, it's probably interesting to see how the defense performs after halftime. It appears that's when the defense gets gashed, not in the first half. And more importantly, why? That's my question to you guys on the board who know and follow the defense closely. Why is it we give up the bazillion yards in the second half and let teams back into would be blowouts? Fatigue? Inexperience? Change in strategy?
Kelly the Dog Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Most teams we have played have gone heavy on the pass. With that shouldn't your safeties and corners be making the tackles? Yes and no. The pass stats are up in numbers of attempts but teams are also throwing a ton of balls to the backs, plus WR and TE screens, but a lot of dinks and dunks that take the place of running plays and you want your LBs and sometimes even your DL snuff them out.
LabattBlue Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 here's a cliche that you might or might not know (and i swear i didn't make it up): "you should've quit while you were ahead."
ColdBlueNorth Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 http://www.oleantime...1cc4c03286.html I had to write back to this because I thought the article was idiotic but I can generally see the direction he was coming from. I also didnt even mention that Byrd, Wilson, and Barnett are in the top ten in the league in tackles. So having a MLB in the top ten is probably where you want ur D to be. Sir, I recently read your article criticizing the Buffalo Bills defense. You stated "And that brings to mind one of football's oldest clichés: "You're in big trouble defensively when your safeties are making the tackles."" I was wondering where this cliché came from, why is it quoted? I have been a football fan for a number of years and have never heard this be said. Also you don't make mention that of the three members of the defensive backfield (Wilson, Byrd, and Scott) they also lead the team in tackles for loss. While I understood the background for your article because the defense is giving up a lot of yards I don't think it has anything to do with the safeties making tackles and more on the trend in this year's NFL to gain a lot of yards. I look forward to reading your response and discovering the origins of "one of footballs oldest clichés". Wilson and Byrd are used up on the line in run formations often as extra linebackers, we also face a lot of quality WR and TE's that force safety intervention. I remember seeing another article recently on how the safety position has evolved to take on much broader role trying to counteract what offenses are doing these days with the new rules. Cliches sometimes are based on some facts, but there is more to the numbers game when it comes to how we and much of the league are using their safeties.
ajzepp Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Alright I was wrong, my bad guys. Dang, I thought for sure you were on the verge of going b.harami...oh well.
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