Ex-Sabre Rick Martin had degenerative brain disease

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/story/2011-10-05/rick-martin-brain-disease/50673424/1

[BuffaloBill]

These situations are becoming troubling ... I would not have classified Martin as a highly physical player ... not suggesting he was the opposite but not a guy you think of taking or giving a pounding on the ice.

[Buftex]

These situations are becoming troubling ... I would not have classified Martin as a highly physical player ... not suggesting he was the opposite but not a guy you think of taking or giving a pounding on the ice.

 

He wasn't a big scrapper, but Martin was a pretty physical player (particularly for one so skilled) in a time when the game was a lot more physical...and don't forget, he spent a good part of his career not wearing a helmet.

[Alaska Darin]

in a time when the game was a lot more physical...

 

These situations are becoming troubling ... I would not have classified Martin as a highly physical player ... not suggesting he was the opposite but not a guy you think of taking or giving a pounding on the ice.

There was a study done on a high school football players not too long ago. They wired up a special helmet and measured the impacts that they took in practice. Each had a number of collisions equivalent to 300 times the force of gravity. That's 10 times the force created in a low speed "rear ender" car accident.

 

Collision sports are very dangerous. We're just now starting to see the long term affects.

[The Senator]

He wasn't a big scrapper, but Martin was a pretty physical player (particularly for one so skilled) in a time when the game was a lot more physical...and don't forget, he spent a good part of his career not wearing a helmet.

And let's not forget - back then, they didn't wear helmets.

[Buftex]

 

 

There was a study done on a high school football players not too long ago. They wired up a special helmet and measured the impacts that they took in practice. Each had a number of collisions equivalent to 300 times the force of gravity. That's 10 times the force created in a low speed "rear ender" car accident.

 

Collision sports are very dangerous. We're just now starting to see the long term affects.

 

 

AD, you don't think the game was more physical in the 70's and 80's? I realize, the players are bigger, and faster now, but they also wear more protection than they used to. Believe me, I am not one of those who thinks the game is "too soft" now, as I hear critics say, but I think the combination of equipment, medical training, and some rule changes make the game a little more player freindly now. Whenever there is some big, physical play now, and they ananlyze whether it was legal or not, I almost always find myself thinking "that is considered too much?" Flagerant, "dirty" play, for better or worse, was a big part of the appeal of NHL hockey, back in the day.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Buftex

[Chef Jim]

Degenerative Brain Disease or also know as the PPP Syndrome.

 

AD, you don't think the game was more physical in the 70's and 80's? I realize, the players are bigger, and faster now, but they also wear more protection than they used to. Believe me, I am not one of those who thinks the game is "too soft" now, as I hear critics say, but I think the combination of equipment, medical training, and some rule changes make the game a little more player freindly now. Whenever there is some big, physical play now, and they ananlyze whether it was legal or not, I almost always find myself thinking "that is considered too much?" Flagerant, "dirty" play, for better or worse, was a big part of the appeal of NHL hockey, back in the day.

 

Sounds to me as if you didn't watch a lot of hockey then or much now. Watch a game from 30-40 years ago. The game is not only light speed faster take a look at the number of hits...hard hits, that players take to the boards compared to the old days. And a lot of that has to do with the equipment. They feel more protected. Helmets do not protect the brain all that much.

[Buftex]

Degenerative Brain Disease or also know as the PPP Syndrome.

 

 

 

Sounds to me as if you didn't watch a lot of hockey then or much now. Watch a game from 30-40 years ago. The game is not only light speed faster take a look at the number of hits...hard hits, that players take to the boards compared to the old days. And a lot of that has to do with the equipment. They feel more protected. Helmets do not protect the brain all that much.

 

 

You are very wrong there... but whatever, I admire your self-assured style, even when you are painfully wrong. I have been watching hockey, solidly, for close to 40 years. I realize, arguing is more important to you than reading.

 

I acknowleded, the players are faster, stronger now, but, their equipment is superior, hell even the boards that they are checked into, now, are designed to give more, so the impact of the hits is minimized. Helmets may not protect that brain all that much, but they protect them better than no helmets at all...and, honestly as someone who has watched a ton of hockey, I don't recall, back in the 70's & 80's many players missing weeks at a time (or a year, for Sidney Crosby) for concussion like symptoms. Medical handling of these situations is light years ahead of what it was back in Rick Martins' times. And, fighting and head blows in that era were the norm, not the exception.

 

If you get a chance (I know you hate advice) and watch the HBO documentary "Broadstreet Bullies", about the 70's Flyers.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Buftex

[Chef Jim]

You are very wrong there... but whatever, I admire your self-assured style, even when you are painfully wrong. I have been watching hockey, solidly, for close to 40 years. I realize, arguing is more important to you than reading.

 

I acknowleded, the players are faster, stronger now, but, their equipment is superior, hell even the boards that they are checked into, now, are designed to give more, so the impact of the hits is minimized. Helmets may not protect that brain all that much, but they protect them better than no helmets at all...and, honestly as someone who has watched a ton of hockey, I don't recall, back in the 70's & 80's many players missing weeks at a time (or a year, for Sidney Crosby) for concussion like symptoms. Medical handling of these situations is light years ahead of what it was back in Rick Martins' times. And, fighting and head blows in that era were the norm, not the exception.

 

If you get a chance (I know you hate advice) and watch the HBO documentary "Broadstreet Bullies", about the 70's Flyers.

 

Ok so you watch a ton of hockey. I just assumed you didn't watch much hockey because it sounds like you don't watch much hockey. The game is much more physical today and that's because of the equipment, they feel more protected. You actually make my point for me....thanks. You say there is more games missed today due to concussions even with more/better equipment. Doesn't that mean the game is more physical today? Seriously, watch a game from 1970 and then watch one from today and you'll see a major difference in the physical play.

[Buftex]

Ok so you watch a ton of hockey. I just assumed you didn't watch much hockey because it sounds like you don't watch much hockey. The game is much more physical today and that's because of the equipment, they feel more protected. You actually make my point for me....thanks. You say there is more games missed today due to concussions even with more/better equipment. Doesn't that mean the game is more physical today? Seriously, watch a game from 1970 and then watch one from today and you'll see a major difference in the physical play.

 

Wow, you are simpler than I thought...guys miss more time today, because they treat concussion like symptoms...concussions went untreated, and un-acknowledged, for the most part, in the 60's and 70's...if you could stand up, you could play. I am wondering if you watch must hockey, cuz you are coming off as someone who just wants to argue, cuz that is your life-blood. Do you really think nobody got concussions 40 years ago? Jeez, I thought you were not going to grace us with your verbal flatulence anymore, what happened?

Edited October 6, 2011 by Buftex

[Chef Jim]

Wow, you are simpler than I thought...guys miss more time today, because they treat concussion like symptoms...concussions went untreated, and un-acknowledged, for the most part, in the 60's and 70's...if you could stand up, you could play. I am wondering if you watch must hockey, cuz you are coming off as someone who just wants to argue, cuz that is your life-blood. Do you really think nobody got concussions 40 years ago? Jeez, I thought you were not going to grace us with your verbal flatulence anymore, what happened?

 

Because nimrods like you just draw me in. I'm just simply stating that hockey is more physical today that it was 40 years ago. If you disagree that's fine but once again, I challenge you to watch a game from the 1970's and compare it to a game today. If those players of the 70's took the phyical punishment without all the gear that the players take today there would have been a lot more guys carted off the ice.

 

The sheer speed of the game today makes it much more violent/physical. Run a guy to the boards at the speed of today compared to 40 years ago right there makes it more physical.

[Buftex]

Because nimrods like you just draw me in. I'm just simply stating that hockey is more physical today that it was 40 years ago. If you disagree that's fine but once again, I challenge you to watch a game from the 1970's and compare it to a game today. If those players of the 70's took the phyical punishment without all the gear that the players take today there would have been a lot more guys carted off the ice.

 

The sheer speed of the game today makes it much more violent/physical. Run a guy to the boards at the speed of today compared to 40 years ago right there makes it more physical.

 

 

Got it!

[Alaska Darin]

AD, you don't think the game was more physical in the 70's and 80's? I realize, the players are bigger, and faster now, but they also wear more protection than they used to. Believe me, I am not one of those who thinks the game is "too soft" now, as I hear critics say, but I think the combination of equipment, medical training, and some rule changes make the game a little more player freindly now. Whenever there is some big, physical play now, and they ananlyze whether it was legal or not, I almost always find myself thinking "that is considered too much?" Flagerant, "dirty" play, for better or worse, was a big part of the appeal of NHL hockey, back in the day.

There was a dirtier component to the game back then but the size, speed, physical training and violence of today's game is light years from what was going on back then. And today's equipment makes the game more violent, not less. Guys like Kaleta would be far less likely to take half rink runs if they weren't wearing full body armor.

 

Cloth shoulder pads, defensemen who couldn't skate, and goalies who had little athleticism. That's what I remember most. Don't get me wrong, I loved the WWF part of it - it made up for the fact that most guys weren't very good.

[Chef Jim]

Got it!

 

 

Actually no I guess that's fine....I have a lot of work to do.

[Buftex]

 

Actually no I guess that's fine....I have a lot of work to do.

Cheers!

[Chef Jim]

 

Cloth shoulder pads, defensemen who couldn't skate, and goalies who had little athleticism. That's what I remember most. Don't get me wrong, I loved the WWF part of it - it made up for the fact that most guys weren't very good.

 

I looked at some videos of a the Flyers-Sabers game from the 1970's. Holy crap. I knew the game was slower but not THAT much slower. And yes the skill of the players then doesn't even compare to the skill today. I watched part of the Sabres-Russian Red Army game online last year and was amazed how slow it was. I thought is was maybe because it was just an exhibition game but when I watched the Flyers-Sabers video today I realized it's just how the game was played then.

[Spun]

Degenerative Brain Disease or also know as the PPP Syndrome.

 

 

 

Sounds to me as if you didn't watch a lot of hockey then or much now. Watch a game from 30-40 years ago. The game is not only light speed faster take a look at the number of hits...hard hits, that players take to the boards compared to the old days. And a lot of that has to do with the equipment. They feel more protected. Helmets do not protect the brain all that much.

 

I took some puck deflections to the head. Thankfully, I had a helmet. The brain bounces off the back of the back of the head with or without a helmet. Have you ever seen some of the early models of goalie masks? I went to the Hockey HOF in Toronto a few years ago and they had some early versions of the mask on display. It was amazing! I stared at some of these "masks" thinking they were designed to stop... what? They looked like they were made of crumpled up masking tape. Another thing to consider is obviously they didn't wear helmets when Rick Martin came into the NHL, but all those punches that connected were direct hits. No pulling back to protect the fists from hitting plastic. Martin got into his share of fights. In fact, he could throw some. So could Danny Gare! Martin's injury in 1977 involved his head hitting the ice. He went into convulsions. It was frightening. An interesting fact is that the very first Buffalo Sabre, goalie Joe Daley, didn't wear a mask. The rules have helped as years ago there was a lot more stick work to the head. The Wayne Maki stick to Ted Green's head in 1969 was one of the most noteworthy and severe incidents. Some of the scariest hockey injuries have occurred in Buffalo involving skates to the neck (Clint Malarchuk, Richard Zednik).

Edited October 8, 2011 by Spun

[KD in CA]

There was a dirtier component to the game back then but the size, speed, physical training and violence of today's game is light years from what was going on back then. And today's equipment makes the game more violent, not less. Guys like Kaleta would be far less likely to take half rink runs if they weren't wearing full body armor.

 

Cloth shoulder pads, defensemen who couldn't skate, and goalies who had little athleticism. That's what I remember most. Don't get me wrong, I loved the WWF part of it - it made up for the fact that most guys weren't very good.

 

 

You guys all watch more hockey than me, but that statement strikes me as spot on. Hockey has the 'rep' of being more violent in the old days due to the fighting. But the fighting isn't where guys are sustaining brain injuries.

[Chef Jim]

I took some puck deflections to the head. Thankfully, I had a helmet. The brain bounces off the back of the back of the head with or without a helmet. Have you ever seen some of the early models of goalie masks? I went to the Hockey HOF in Toronto a few years ago and they had some early versions of the mask on display. It was amazing! I stared at some of these "masks" thinking they were designed to stop... what? They looked like they were made of crumpled up masking tape. Another thing to consider is obviously they didn't wear helmets when Rick Martin came into the NHL, but all those punches that connected were direct hits. No pulling back to protect the fists from hitting plastic. Martin got into his share of fights. In fact, he could throw some. So could Danny Gare! Martin's injury in 1977 involved his head hitting the ice. He went into convulsions. It was frightening. An interesting fact is that the very first Buffalo Sabre, goalie Joe Daley, didn't wear a mask. The rules have helped as years ago there was a lot more stick work to the head. The Wayne Maki stick to Ted Green's head in 1969 was one of the most noteworthy and severe incidents. Some of the scariest hockey injuries have occurred in Buffalo involving skates to the neck (Clint Malarchuk, Richard Zednik).

 

No doubt the equipment, or lack thereof, made the game more dangerous back then. My contention with Buftex was that he was saying the game was more physical back then and that's just not the case. Oh and I know the old goalie masks. I used to wear one when we played street hockey in the 70's. I know the one you described predated that but the one I wore didn't do much. Also went many games without a cup. Took one to the nuts and said "hey guys, I need to run home and put my cup on." WTF was I thinking?