NoSaint Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 I am not an expert on football but I think if even a quarterback loses a football while still on his feet, it is a fumble. This "tuck rule" (because Brady was a wuss) is bogus. If at one point his arm was going forward and then pulls it back (pump fake) and fumbles, it is an incomplete pass based on the tuck rule, that is Bull. His knees didn't hit the ground, he was not down, the ground did not cause the fumble. He never let go of the ball until it was knocked loose. To me that is a fumble. If he brings his arm back attempting to tuck the ball in and retains the ball that is fair game for someone to knock loose. The league has gone overboard protecting the quarterback. Anybody playing in the league knows there is always the chance of injury no matter what position they play. How can you call that an incomplete pass when it was tucked up against the quarterback's body and never left his hand? Please help me understand how it protects the qb and makes Brady a wuss. I get not liking the rule but of all the reasons, this one sounds like "I'm angry and don't understand" not "I'm smarter than the league" as I think you intended.
manateefan Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 I'm really curious as to how many times the tuck rule has been enforced in the history of the NFL. I believe it's only been used against the Raiders in 2002 and the Bills in 2011. Can anyone confirm this information? I vaguely recall NFL Network episode focusing on the 2002 tuck rule travesty. I think it was said that the tuck rule has been in the rule book FOR AGES but was never enforced until that 02 Raiders -Pats playoff game. This of course left some Raiders & fans to wonder if the NFL was getting revenge for Al Davis's successful lawsuit against the NFL. If it was, I almost admire their patience in waiting two decades for just the right moment...now that's cold. It's bad enough that the rule is ridiculous but when it's so seldom enforced it gets too easy for the conspiracy minded to let their imaginations run wild. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the Raiders and Bills have been the only ones (that I know of) persecuted by this rule while neither franchise is a big favourite with the majority of NFL owners. Wait a minute...hmmmn. We are through the looking glass. Anyway, off I go to roam the streets wearing my trusty tin foil hat as I search through trash cans for bits of string pausing only to scream revolutionary slogans and laugh hysterically. GO BILLS!!! The only other time I could find was Jan. 9, 2011, playoff game between KC against the Baltimore Ravens.
PO'14 Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Brady is a wuss because he is so good! However, that rule is ridiculous. The QB can fake and bring the ball back in and then throw to another receiver. However if he fakes and the ball falls out of his hand, its called an incompletion. Stupid Rule! And by the Way, Brady is a wuss.
Orton's Arm Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 It's very simple. If your arm is going forward and the ball comes out, incomplete pass. If your arm is going another direction, like sideways, or backwards, and the ball comes out, it's a fumble. Why is that so hard? That leaves very little room for judgement. I would strongly prefer a rule like this to the tuck rule.
NoSaint Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 I would strongly prefer a rule like this to the tuck rule. I'm pretty sure you just defined the tuck rule. Once the motion starts the ball moves forward until it returns to the body, is the theory. What you need to find is the earliest defining motion that is in a fake that is in no pass. Think check swing (obviously hugely different based on the physical motions ie stopping early vs following through without release). The first obvious motion from the elbow, shoulder, ball etc that defines a pump fake needs to be identified.
Griz Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 The tuck rule is akin to a running back changing hands to carry the ball - rationalizing that if he drops the ball in the act of changing hands, it's OK. It's just nuts.
Bob in STL Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 I'm pretty sure you just defined the tuck rule. Once the motion starts the ball moves forward until it returns to the body, is the theory. What you need to find is the earliest defining motion that is in a fake that is in no pass. Think check swing (obviously hugely different based on the physical motions ie stopping early vs following through without release). The first obvious motion from the elbow, shoulder, ball etc that defines a pump fake needs to be identified. I understand that you are trying to explain the rul and I apprefciate that but for me it always come back to why bother with all this? Why worry about a check swing, why add another layer of complexity? If the QB drops the ball and it is not ruled a forward pass then it is a fumble. This whole idea that an official can determine that the QB meant to tuck the ball is absurd.
apuszczalowski Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Once the ball passes the 90 degree mark of the throwing motion, and is no longer moving in a forward motion, but more towards the ground, its no longer a pass, unless his intended receiver is on the ground in front of him.
BuffalOhio Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 A rule that is rarely and arbitrarily enforced needs to go. Cheap fumbles? We had great pressure and that cause it. GREAT pressure by Kelsay, who is playing very well so far this season. TUCK. RULE. SUCKS!
judman Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Once the ball passes the 90 degree mark of the throwing motion, and is no longer moving in a forward motion, but more towards the ground, its no longer a pass, unless his intended receiver is on the ground in front of him. Then we would have a protracted response. Like others have said. Arm not going forward = fumble. The NFL should really get rid of this monstrosity of a rule.
kickedface Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 the nfl will end the tuck rule.....3 days after brady retires.
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