Blaming the Defense and Defensive Playcalling

[RandyMarsh44]

Why we weren't blitzing a rookie QB just baffled me. George Edwards has got to go. Three down lineman at the end of the game with no pressure isn't going to cut it in the national football league.

[SelmonSmith6378]

I'm not going to pretend like I saw the full game. I only saw the highlights on ESPN. But I WILL tell you that what I DID see was some of the most horrifically terrible, shotty tackling I've ever seen. The running d was the worst. I agree with JR In Ann Arbor, just unacceptable.

[BillsVet]

The only statistics that count are the two scores at the end of the game.

 

But if you want telling stats:

 

Bengals scored on 4 of 5 second half possessions.

Bills have given up 1400 yards in three games.

 

That's not playing good defense.

 

The main reason no one has talked about D prior to this game is that they have been very good in the turnover department. Don't manufacture excuses for poor efforts. Nobody wanted to see the opponents with the ball and time left on the clock for a last drive.

 

This D still has a hard time shutting people down when they need to. The real question is, what games have you been watching?

 

Cincinnati scored 8 points in their Week 3 matchup at home to San Francisco, totaling 228 yards of offense, 149 of it passing. Buffalo yields 450+ yards of total offense, 298 of it passing to the same team. Did Cincy in 1 week become an offensive juggernaut or are is Buffalo's defense just not good right now? I'll take the latter. 1400 yards of offense surrendered in 3 games can never be considered good, nor are there any reasons to justify. Next thing you know, someone will say Dick Jauron's about as good as Belichick if you take away DJ's bad seasons. Oh, wait, that's already been done here.

 

Dude. Think about what you posted. Take yourself out of your role as a Bills fan for just a moment and take a look at the facts.

 

Big Cat? Never happen.

[PO'14]

No need to look at stats at the moment. We played the CHiefs and won. We played the Raiders and won. We played against the Patriots and won. Brady ( and I hate that MoFo ) is leading the league in yards. We played the Bengals and shut them down in the first half against BAD field position.

 

THEN THE LET DOWN CAME IN. Fatigue, overconfidence, bad execution...you name it. **** happens.

 

I dont think they played bad defensively until the 4rth quarter. That rookie made great catches and Dalton scrambled a few times and made some lucky completions. **** happens.

 

 

I remember years ago when the Defense was great and the Offense was crap. I rather a great offense and entertaining game rather than the Losman, Edwards era!

[CodeMonkey]

The defense showed no heart late in the game and just bent over and took it. Poor coverage, poor rush, poor tackling - just a plain old weak effort in crunch time.

I have to agree with the OP.

The offense scored 3 times, 1 TD and 2 FG. The defense scored as many TDs as the offense did that game.

I'm not sure at all how you blame the D for that loss. I can't see it. You aren't going to win many games with your offense scoring so few points.

Edited October 5, 2011 by CodeMonkey

[MRW]

I have to agree with the OP.

The offense scored 3 times, 1 TD and 2 FG. The defense scored as many TDs as the offense did that game.

I'm not sure at all how you blame the D for that loss. I can't see it. You aren't going to win many games with your offense scoring so few points.

There are going to be games where the defense has to step up and hold the opponent to under 20 points. This time out, they failed utterly.

 

At the end of the game, both the offense and the defense had their shots to make a play for the win. I guess I'm not sure how you absolve the D of blame. 23 points and 450 yards of offense is not a good outing in my book.

[CSBill]

First half defense = Awesome

 

Second half defense = Embarrassing

 

Exactly!

[fansince88]

Informative, thanks

[Bob in STL]

So we gave up 23 points to the Bengals, on the road.

 

That doesn't seem so bad.

 

Nor do any of the stat lines of Cincinnati's key players:

 

Dalton: 50% passing for 298 yards 1 TD and 2 INT's.

 

Benson: 104 yards on 19 carries and 0 TD's.

 

Okay, so nothing's jumping off the stat sheet, what about HOW those yards and points were earned?

 

Dalton's lone TD throw, a 17 yard strike, placed delicately where only his receiver could make the one-handed sideline grab that would be the first of only two touchdowns scored against us.

Seems like that play deserves kudos for them and doesn't necessarily warrant any criticism of coverage, play call, etc. In fact, Wilson is right there with him.

 

Well, what about AJ Green's gaudy stat line. Some call it an indictment of Leodis McKelvin, and in some ways they're right. But to say that Green's 4 catches for 118 yards lies directly at McKelvin's feet (or even more baffling, at the feet of George Edwards) ignores the RIDICULOUSLY ACROBATIC nature of Green's 40 and 58 yard grabs. The kid made some plays. Shoot, he was drafted only one pick after Dareus and was an agreed upon offensive stud, a can't miss guy of the 2011 draft. Perhaps a simple turn of the head from baby-Einstein out there would have resulted in a break up, but Green does deserve some credit for how those plays turned out. And just for a second, let's pretend like Leodis does just turn, find the ball and prevent those catches:

 

Just by omitting the catches alone, Dalton now throws for less than 50% (thanks in large part to the pressure he was under, ahem) and he gains only 200 yards on 36 attempts. Hardly a banner day. But even after Green's 40 yarder brought them all the way down to the 7 yard line, they still walked away with only a FG. And the 58 yarder was ultimately negated by a drive-ending interception. So those 98 yards that "killed us" really only cost us 3 points.

 

And about that pass rush...

 

How much different does that stat line look when an incomplete pass is actually a sack for a fumble for a touchdown...?

 

The Bengals really only succeeded in moving the ball in big chunks that were more often the result of great play making by their receivers and had less to do with the kind of systematic errors you'd think were plaguing this team by the way folks are posting around here. It's not like they were consistently moving the chains with 6,7,8 yard pickups. It happened in spurts, and for the rest of the game, our defense held them completely in check. Need proof? How about how TERRIBLY we were losing the field position battle throughout most of the first half. The result? Bills up 17-3.

 

Oh, but what about Oakland and New England? What about them? They put up CA-RAZY numbers against George Edwards and company.

 

For the last half decade New England has been, and continues to be, an offensive juggernaut. They've yet to be stopped or contained, only merely re-routed less than a handful of times over the last four or five seasons.

 

And Oakland? Talk about shocking. Not only is McFadden finally living up to his draft-status, but Campbell finally looks to be the quarterback everyone's touted him to be all these years. Plus HIS receivers have made some great plays too, and ESPECIALLY against us. That go-ahead TD in the fourth thrown into double coverage? Are you kidding me?

 

Long story short, we're 3-1 thanks to some huge breaks both for and against us. It's been an epically wonky start across the league--thanks in most part to the lockout, IMO--and folks around here are acting like no progress has been made in our rebuilding efforts.

 

To them I say: PHOOEY!

 

We gave up 400 plus yards to the Bengels.

 

We blew a lead in the fourth quarter.

 

They ran the ball down our throats coming from behind.

 

Did you watch the game?

Edited October 6, 2011 by Bob in STL

[bowery4]

First half decent showing, second half. D on the field too long and can't get off. Big and strong got tired and beat down and I don't, never did and never will like bend don't break. Makes some sense against NE* but we should have put real pressure (blitzing that team would have been good) on the rookie QB and keep AJ doubled like flys on ****. Benson isn't Fred Jackson and wasn't going to kill us anyway.

[thewildrabbit]

Dude. Think about what you posted. Take yourself out of your role as a Bills fan for just a moment and take a look at the facts. Before the game on Sunday against the Bengals, the Bills ranked 26th on defense. So, even before playing the Bengals, the Bills D sucked. The Bengals ranked 26th on offense. That 26th ranked offense, with a rookie QB and rookie wide receiver, dominated the Bills... even though they spotted the Bills 2 TDs off turnovers. They more than doubled the Bills production of first downs and lit up the Bills defense for 458 yards. As a result, the Bills rank 27th on defense.

 

You want to omit the big plays and discount them like they shouldn't count, or didn't happen. This Bills defense sucks every bit as bad as the past two years. Anyone thinking the defensive performance wasn't so bad is dilusional and in denial. Let's not forget the torching they got from the Raiders, sans their TE and top three receivers.

 

Bottom line, go look at the stats... Bills are ranked 27 in total D. That's a fact. That's real. In any sports venue in the world that would clearly constitute that their defense flat out sucks, period, end of story.

Yea, and to boot whats really disappointing is the Bills used a lot of draft picks on defense and only one guy is making an impact.

 

It does suck to see the defense still so bad after 2 years of Nixly

[PO'14]

I dont think the Defense is that Bad. Again, the defense kept us in the game during the first half. Did you guys not see the Field Advantage Cincy had?

 

Secondly, the Defense gave us the lead in the first half.

 

Maybe scoring more than 3 points in the second half would have sealed the win for us.

 

But I do agree that the second half was terrible.

[SoFFacet]

You can't sell me that Cincy actually has a great offense. They don't. Our defense, on the other hand, has been butchered in three consecutive weeks.

[WildBills]

This thread is garbage. George Edwards is terrible and should be fired.

[ColdBlueNorth]

So we gave up 23 points to the Bengals, on the road.

 

That doesn't seem so bad.

 

Nor do any of the stat lines of Cincinnati's key players:

 

Dalton: 50% passing for 298 yards 1 TD and 2 INT's.

 

Benson: 104 yards on 19 carries and 0 TD's.

 

Okay, so nothing's jumping off the stat sheet, what about HOW those yards and points were earned?

 

Dalton's lone TD throw, a 17 yard strike, placed delicately where only his receiver could make the one-handed sideline grab that would be the first of only two touchdowns scored against us.

Seems like that play deserves kudos for them and doesn't necessarily warrant any criticism of coverage, play call, etc. In fact, Wilson is right there with him.

 

Well, what about AJ Green's gaudy stat line. Some call it an indictment of Leodis McKelvin, and in some ways they're right. But to say that Green's 4 catches for 118 yards lies directly at McKelvin's feet (or even more baffling, at the feet of George Edwards) ignores the RIDICULOUSLY ACROBATIC nature of Green's 40 and 58 yard grabs. The kid made some plays. Shoot, he was drafted only one pick after Dareus and was an agreed upon offensive stud, a can't miss guy of the 2011 draft. Perhaps a simple turn of the head from baby-Einstein out there would have resulted in a break up, but Green does deserve some credit for how those plays turned out. And just for a second, let's pretend like Leodis does just turn, find the ball and prevent those catches:

 

Just by omitting the catches alone, Dalton now throws for less than 50% (thanks in large part to the pressure he was under, ahem) and he gains only 200 yards on 36 attempts. Hardly a banner day. But even after Green's 40 yarder brought them all the way down to the 7 yard line, they still walked away with only a FG. And the 58 yarder was ultimately negated by a drive-ending interception. So those 98 yards that "killed us" really only cost us 3 points.

 

And about that pass rush...

 

How much different does that stat line look when an incomplete pass is actually a sack for a fumble for a touchdown...?

 

The Bengals really only succeeded in moving the ball in big chunks that were more often the result of great play making by their receivers and had less to do with the kind of systematic errors you'd think were plaguing this team by the way folks are posting around here. It's not like they were consistently moving the chains with 6,7,8 yard pickups. It happened in spurts, and for the rest of the game, our defense held them completely in check. Need proof? How about how TERRIBLY we were losing the field position battle throughout most of the first half. The result? Bills up 17-3.

 

Oh, but what about Oakland and New England? What about them? They put up CA-RAZY numbers against George Edwards and company.

 

For the last half decade New England has been, and continues to be, an offensive juggernaut. They've yet to be stopped or contained, only merely re-routed less than a handful of times over the last four or five seasons.

 

And Oakland? Talk about shocking. Not only is McFadden finally living up to his draft-status, but Campbell finally looks to be the quarterback everyone's touted him to be all these years. Plus HIS receivers have made some great plays too, and ESPECIALLY against us. That go-ahead TD in the fourth thrown into double coverage? Are you kidding me?

 

Long story short, we're 3-1 thanks to some huge breaks both for and against us. It's been an epically wonky start across the league--thanks in most part to the lockout, IMO--and folks around here are acting like no progress has been made in our rebuilding efforts.

 

To them I say: PHOOEY!

 

 

Sorry for the long post. I haven't really posted on the game, I kind of like to let the "kill em all" feelings settle down first.

 

I am not ready to hit the panic button I don't think many fans are although it makes for decent news fodder to talk about all the fans jumping off the bandwagon, but most would agree that there is work that needs to be done on both sides of the ball and Gailey knows this.

 

 

On defense:

 

McKelvin is consistently exposed by average QB's and rookie receivers, and it is not a coincidence that opposing QBs target McKelvin the most. Yes, I do believe that both rookies Denarius Moore and Green will be good receivers for years to come, but this is not just a two-game observation. We will get healthier on pass defense if McGee can come back (stay healthy) and solidify that spot with some veteran saavy. Long term I am hoping that Aaron Williams grows into that role. McKelvin is overmatched when facing the taller WRs where he is not physical enough to jam receivers on the line and rarely appears to be able to track the long ball on go routes. He is probably better suited for covering slot receivers. I also agree that some of the longer conversions were spectacular circus catches, others he has just been late getting there and ineffectively waving his arms around in the air hoping that he somehow gets a piece of the ball.

 

We seem to play a lot of man coverage and to do so you need to have DBs that can shut it down solo.

 

Another defensive problem was containment; Gailey alluded to this in his presser right after the game where it looked like he could chew up 10 penny nails. I don't know if it was by design, but on two separate instances where we gave up big gains to the outside I saw Merriman and later Kelsey take inside moves leaving no one on the edge. If this is part of Edward's defensive playbook he needs to file it in the trash. Several times the rookie Dalton was able to pull the ball down and race 10-12 yards towards the sideline marker to pull out an improbable 3rd and forever conversion. One of the things I was looking for from the defense is our big boys in the middle being able to flush Dalton out of the pocket for Merriman and Kelsey to clean up. Well, he was flushed out, but I did not envision him running free.

 

Also Benson and the rookie running back consistently made yards on the edge moving the chains, and in the second half they even started gashing our defense off tackle.

 

What's the deal with the arm brace that Dareus is wearing, anyone know? Troup? Troup? Was Troup even on the field?

 

Either way, they were more physical on the line than the Bills and our defense also played extreemly undisciplined; bad angles, no contain, not executing their fits and gap assignments - perhaps they read too many articles about lack of a pass rush and were so anxious to put pressure on a rookie QB that they lost sight of their number one priority which is always stop the run first. Benson is not McFadden - our defense has been better than that against the run, but they were not getting a whole lot of help from the 3 and out offense this game.

 

I don't know, I think we have good players and you start to wonder if they would be executing better if someone like Wade Phillips was coaching them. This is year 2 under Edwards and this scheme and I do not see a marked improvement in the amount of yards we are giving up. The Edwards Wannstedt dynamic duo have got to coach these guys up better; and yes, I thought the same thing after our wins, but was a bit more subdued in my criticism because the halftime adjustments seemed so effective that I was thinking they may eventually get to the point where they dominate early without the halftime fix. I also was not sure if our defensive 2nd half surge was not simply a byproduct of our offense moving the chains and scoring while keeping the other teams offense cooling its heels. I know, it was a bit of both I am sure. The truth is usually a shade of grey.

 

On Offense:

 

Frankly, Fitz was terrible. He is known for being erratic and this was the worst I had seen from him. His throws either had too much heat and were high, or too little heat and were lucky they were not intercepted. His long ball was consistently too short and guys that were one on one with a step on the defender had to slow up which allowed the DB's to make plays on the ball knocking away at least 3 shots downfield that should have been long conversions. He needs to get better on those if he is to remain a consistent starting QB. The design of our spread offense is meant to single those guys one on one on the outside, and Fitz has got to be able to take advantage of that. Marvin and the Bengals coaching staff know Fitz better than any other team would, whatever they did on defense did have him out of sync - the testament to that fact was when Fitz held the ball so long he got sacked.... Fitz rarely takes that long to digest what his receiving options are.

 

Gailey and Fitz need to get to work, because every team is going to roll out the Bengals defense tapes and try to mimick whatever they did to take one of the highest scoring offenses and bottle it up. It is a copy-cat league.

 

Fred Jackson, one of my favorite players, just looked a bit slow for that game. There were plenty of draws and quick screens where he had so much green in front of him yet it just seemed to take too long for him to get his wheels going and he would consistently be tripped up from behind. I like Freddie's patience, but I found myself yelling for him to run already. Like most of the offense he just seemed to lack that normal spark he has to move the chains. The one shining moment was the absolutely perfect text book execution of pulling and sealing the edge that Corey McIntyre put on Freddie's TD run - allowing him to practically walk in untouched ... a thing of beauty.

 

I didn't tape the game, but I am pretty sure that the Bengals used a nickel package for most of the game with two inside linebackers. I am thinking that one probably was told to spy Jackson on the short stuff he usually turns into long gainers.

 

Well, I agree with what Chan said and I think that he is a refreshingly straight shooter. He just said that they have to execute better on offense, and they have to be able to get off the field on 3rd downs on defense. He also said that they have to be more physical at the point of attack both on offense and on defense. For much of the game it just looked like the Bengals wanted it more.

 

 

I wonder how this team will respond?

[Webster Guy]

Our defense is still one of the worst in the league. 400 plus yards per game is rough. What makes it worse is that because we give up long drives down the field, we are pulling Kyle and Dareus (usually at the same time) and putting in second stringers because our studs need a breather.

 

I didn't count how many snaps those two were out, but it was significant.

 

The thing that worries me the most is the last drive the Bengals had to get in field goal position should have never happened. 14 yards right up the gut by some 2nd string back?

 

Just stuffing that one play at the line puts their kicker in a 56 yard kick situation not a 42 yarder.

 

Not sure who to blame for that play but it looked a lot like last year's team and that's not acceptable with us drafting all defense this year and quite a bit last year, plus the free agency LB pickups. Makes me start to think we have a great offensive coach who needs a Gregg or a Wade type DC, not Edwards.

[CodeMonkey]

There are going to be games where the defense has to step up and hold the opponent to under 20 points. This time out, they failed utterly.

 

At the end of the game, both the offense and the defense had their shots to make a play for the win. I guess I'm not sure how you absolve the D of blame. 23 points and 450 yards of offense is not a good outing in my book.

Never said the D played great. The D gave up 23 points. The D also scored 7 which makes a net given up of 16. The Bills O scored 13.

I'm just saying I don't understand people complaining about just the D in that game.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

So we gave up 23 points to the Bengals, on the road.

That doesn't seem so bad.

Nor do any of the stat lines of Cincinnati's key players:

Dalton: 50% passing for 298 yards 1 TD and 2 INT's.

Benson: 104 yards on 19 carries and 0 TD's.

Okay, so nothing's jumping off the stat sheet, what about HOW those yards and points were earned?

 

Wow. I read this and decided to come back to it in case it was tongue-in-cheek or ironic, and I missed it.

 

Big Cat, I'm afraid you are missing the forest for the trees here. Let's do a reality check.

 

In 2010, a top 6 pass defense in the NFL gave up <220 yards per game passing. A bottom 6 pass defense in the NFL gave up >250 yards per game passing

In 2010, a top 6 run defense gave up <100 yards per game passing. A bottom 6 run defense in the NFL gave up >120 yards rushing.

 

We gave up close to 300 yds passing and 171 total yards rushing. This has us well-positioned to once more be a bottom 6 defense in both passing and rushing.

 

That is what some folks here are seeing, and blaming.

 

In earlier games, I made excuse. Brady passed for 369 yds, but that's a poor day for Brady, and there were 4 INTs and only 79 yds rushing - we stopped the run, anyway.

Oakland, 131 yds rushing for McFadden and Co is excellent, again, we stopped the run at the expense of 323 yds passing.

It was worrisome - looked like "either or, not both" defense. But again, NE is a juggernaut and McFadden is a beast.

 

Cinncinnati is neither a top passing nor a top rushing team. And we made them look like Brady and McFadden. It sucks.

 

It's time to call the shot. You are what your performance on the field says you are, and through the first quarter, the Bills defensive performance says "bottom dwellers".

 

And to ask - where is the defensive improvement that should be part of our rebuilding efforts?

 

But carry on - make all the excuses you like, cherry-pick away the biggest plays on our D and say they're not bad.

 

I really hate to sound like Jerry Sullivan, and I refuse to turn into gloom and doom, but objective numbers must be seen for what they are.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Hopeful

[Smears]

seems like we were better on defense 3 years ago when byrd was making all those ints. Perry Fewell wasnt a bad defensive coordinator. Edwards hasnt sold me yet.

[KD in CA]

Sorry, the D is still a pig with or without that lipstick.

 

 

Yup. This was possibly the worst defense in the league last season and the only significant net adds are 3 rookies (1 of whom is a starter) and a broken down LB. What did people expect?

 

There is still a crying need to upgrade the talent level, particularly at LB.