34-78-83 Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Exactly...I'm not sure why some folks around here who should understand this concept don't...It's not easy to Win on the Road in the NFL and this garbage being spewed that The Bills are all of a sudden supposed to be the almighty Patsies or SB Champ Packers and overcome any and all obstacles in order to win on the Road is ridiculous...The truth is The Bills are not on that level yet and everyone knows it...But they were leading by 7 points at the time of the Play, in the 4th Quarter, and they just pushed into Cincy territory...They had CLEARLY snatched back momentum at that time of the Game...It was obvious...And also, I realize there are REAL tough calls to make in the NFL...Even some Replay calls are impossible to determine...This call was not one of those...It was SO cut and dry! How it did not get overturned is still beyond my comprehension... So...Folks can say what they will about The Bills not doing what they needed to do to Win that Game...But it mostly applies to what they did not do AFTER that horrible Call...Because before that they may have been sloppy at times, but they had a 7 point lead in the 4th Quarter with about 8:30 left in the Game on the Road vs. an average NFL Team...That's not easy...Worst case scenario they run a couple more minutes off the clock...But 15 more Yards and they are in FG Range...A couple more 1st Downs and now there is VERY little time left for a Cincy comeback...The idea that this was not THE pivotal moment in the game is just wrong...Was it the only reason The Bills lost? Of coarse not...But it was a HUGE reason nonetheless... This was a natural letdown Game for The Bills, and to that point (before the mis-call) they had gutted it out against a VERY good Defense and had a Touchdown lead midway through the 4th Quarter...Then everything went to hell...It's not making excuses...It's fact...It helped the Bengals Win the Game... Could not have said it better myself. Thanks!
basskik11 Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Just goes to show that only a few plays can determine a game. The D was terrible, yes. But if we get that 1st down, we win.
John from Riverside Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 The problem is the ref should have never made the non catch call on the field because that is what makes it hard to overturn..... If he does his job correctly...then this isnt an issue.....just one of MANY botched calls that day Moving on......
Mr. WEO Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Just goes to show that only a few plays can determine a game. The D was terrible, yes. But if we get that 1st down, we win. How so?
bills44 Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 I mean seriously, this play was disputable, How so? It's a lot easier to play defense when you're never flagged for interference, illegal contact, etc and you're doing it on virtually every passing play. It's a lot tougher to play defense when your front 7 is being tackled on virtually every play. I'm surprised Dareus isn't on the injury report with neck problems from the number of times he was horse collared and driven to the ground. I knew we were in trouble on the first big play the Bengals had. Short pass to the smurfy running back. One of the BILLS DBs was in position to make a tackle at or just behind the LoS. The OLineman just grabbed him by the back of the collar and pulled him down. Bang, gap opened, big play. Their OLine got the message that it was open season. I've seen many NFL games that had poor officiating. This game may have been the worst ever. An absolute embarrassment. Spot on.
JESSEFEFFER Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 These still frames of Stevie's catch were brought to YE OLE's attention... what do you guys think? http://www.thebillsblog.com/2011/10/stevie-johnson-catch-vs-bengals.html Just as a side note... it should have never come down to this one call. The Bills lost this game on several other levels. It's simply a closer look at this call, that was indeed pivotal in the game. Thanks for posting this. Looking at frame 2 I can come up with a theory as to how this wrong call was made. It's the prominent pink glove that Clements is wearing which is also on the side of the ball. If you incorrectly assume that the pink glove belongs Stevie it would 1) not be under the ball and 2) the ball would appear to move separately from the pink gloved hand. Stevie's arm, glove and wristband are underneath and in shadow. Not nearly as prominent as neon pink. Also, I wonder how long after catching the ball, getting to their knees and going to the ground they will allow a defender to try to dislodge the ball. Action by a defender after possession, contact, knee down and body down, should not be rewarded as every condition has been met to end the play.
reddogblitz Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 First off, I think it was a catch AND that if we had played better it wouldn't have mattered. We did get the ball back once after that and failed. We also gave up 10 points after that. The only thing I can figure is that in photo 3 it appears that SJ is laying on the ball and the ball may be touching the ground. I hate this whole "process of the catch" BS. Saw a game sunday night where the reciever had the ball in his hand with 2 feet in. He falls on the ground and rolls over and the ball comes out. No catch. Ridiculous. Once again the NFL gets too over complicated on it's rules leaving room for speculative calls like this. We got the shaft on this one. But that's OK. We come back stronger and hungrier.
Bob in STL Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Well bob, as no one called a fumble, I'd say you have little room to criticize the call. Not that it's a real rule as much as shorthand for fans to begin with. Back judge seemed to think he saw something, and influenced the call on the field. It doesn't look like he made the right call, but it's not an obvious one to overturn. Im not a fan of the call but I'm not buying the conspiracy theories. I never said anything about conspiracy theories. I only mention fumble because the replay shows control before he hits the ground. He was touched by a defender with a knee down and with full control. Technically he is down right there. If the video reviewer saw a loose ball after that point it should not have mattered. Even with that, the ball is secure as he falls to the ground. If he sees a loose ball after that, then it brings up the fumble issue. You can side with the officials. I think it is a blown call on the field that had clear evidence to overturn. Obviously, I want the Bills to beat the Eagles, but I think this game will also reveal a lot about how legit the Bills defensive coaching is. Our defense should be better than it has shown...IMO. I would like to see something new from them, some scheme, or wrinkle, designed specifically to contain Vick...he could kill us...I give Gailey almost as much credit for the Bills offensive turnaround as I do the players...I would like to see something comparable from the defensive coaching staff. I am hoping for the same thing. It is time for our defensive staff to make the sum of the defense better than the parts.
Taro T Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 (edited) I never said anything about conspiracy theories. I only mention fumble because the replay shows control before he hits the ground. He was touched by a defender with a knee down and with full control. Technically he is down right there. If the video reviewer saw a loose ball after that point it should not have mattered. Even with that, the ball is secure as he falls to the ground. If he sees a loose ball after that, then it brings up the fumble issue. You can side with the officials. I think it is a blown call on the field that had clear evidence to overturn. I am hoping for the same thing. It is time for our defensive staff to make the sum of the defense better than the parts. But even though he is down he still needs to complete the catch. It's similar to when a receiver gets both feet down in bounds and falls to the turf out of bounds (in the same motion, without making a football move) and then has the ball pop out when he hits the ground. If the ball pops out when he hits the ground, then it wasn't a catch even though he's down as soon as he goes out of bounds. Because he'd been touched in the process of going to the turf (and while on it) during the process of making the catch, a fumble was never a possible outcome. It would either be a catch or incomplete. While I disagree with the back judge, he saw (or thought he saw) the ball touch the ground without Stevie having control of it. And unfortunately the crew chose his view of the play to be the one they ran with. Also, unfortunately, even though we can all reasonably surmise that Stevie did maintain control through the entire process we can't see the ball during the entire catch to prove that he did make the catch. Because the ref reviewing the play couldn't see the ball through the entire process (Stevie's body blocked it for a bit) he couldn't state definitively that the ball didn't touch the ground with Stevie losing control of it at that point. Had the call gone the other way, there wouldn't have been evidence to overturn a catch either, as the ref still wouldn't have been able to see what happened when Stevie's body blocked the ball from the camera. Edited October 4, 2011 by Taro T
RevWarRifleman Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Ball is in his arm, his knee is down while the bengal is on his back. It's a catch. F'n refs all need glasses and a IQ higher than 2. Exactly! That was my take too after they gave the replay. Isn't the play over when: A. the player's knee(s) hits the ground as well as, B. an opposing player has made contact w/ the ball carrier (that guy was on Stevie's BACK at the time!) and finally, C. the ball is secure the same time that A & B above is happening? Furthermore, didn't it seem that all throughout the game the officials were always calling penalties on the Bills? The Bengals were pulling some crap on the Bills, but they didn't get called for anything until well into the 3rd quarter. Not saying we lost the game due to the refs, just saying the Johnson "no-catch" ruling was a part of a bigger malady w/ officiating.
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