meazza Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 Really? Nice spin No. It is fear. I highly doubt it. Though I'm quite sure many Americans are unhappy with the current political climate, the organizers of this movement are communists. This isn't Europe.
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 I highly doubt it. Though I'm quite sure many Americans are unhappy with the current political climate, the organizers of this movement are communists. This isn't Europe. I guess we will see how it plays out in the coming months.
meazza Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 I guess we will see how it plays out in the coming months. I'm guessing it will slow down here eventually soon enough when the -35 degree weather hits Though I might add, these protests are nothing compared to the strikes the public sector association is doing and the construction workers We are more than used to strikes and rioting.
Chef Jim Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 If this movement is so irrelevant... Why do I detect fear? Explain where you're detecting fear.
OCinBuffalo Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) Really? Nice spin No. It is fear. You are free to believe what you want. I believe in: polls and predictive modeling. Edit: Oh, and history, I also believe in what happens when idiots take to the street and annoy voters. People like order. It's the same reason they vote for incumbents. Edited November 3, 2011 by OCinBuffalo
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 Explain where you're detecting fear. With the powers that be. Why don't they just ignore them. The more they make arrest, get the nurses angry, etc... The more it backfires. Let them protest.
OCinBuffalo Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) With the powers that be. Why don't they just ignore them. The more they make arrest, get the nurses angry, etc... The more it backfires. Let them protest. Simple, this is a completely unforced error, on the national level, it has too much potential to ignore: The Democrat powers that be have once again miscalculated(remember "they will like Obamacare once we pass it and they see what's in it?"), and think that 50 people in a park doing and saying stupid things, but saying they are against Wall St., makes for good "optics" for them. The Republican powers that be have once again nailed this, and think that 50 people in park doing and saying stupid things....will be correctly perceived as merely 50 people in a park doing and saying stupid things. They can only hope that these idiots are attributed to the Democrats, because these would be the best optics of all time for Republicans. Why? Here's the real "optics": OWS = scumbags/idiots/lazy Greek protestors = Scumbags/idiots/lazy = socialism If OWS = Greek protestors, then that's a great thing for Republicans. The best thing is: OWS = Greek Protestors, and Obama supports it. Edited November 3, 2011 by OCinBuffalo
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 Simple, this is a completely unforced error, on the national level, it has too much potential to ignore: The Democrat powers that be have once again miscalculated(remember "they will like Obamacare once we pass it and they see what's in it?"), and think that 50 people in a park doing and saying stupid things, but saying they are against Wall St., makes for good "optics" for them. The Republican powers that be have once again nailed this, and think that 50 people in park doing and saying stupid things....will be correctly perceived as merely 50 people in a park doing and saying stupid things. They can only hope that these idiots are attributed to the Democrats, because these would be the best optics of all time for Republicans. Why? Here's the real "optics": OWS = scumbags/idiots/lazy Greek protestors = Scumbags/idiots/lazy = socialism If OWS = Greek protestors, then that's a great thing for Republicans. The best thing is: OWS = Greek Protestors, and Obama supports it. Great, in the end we continue to turn the clock back to 1929 for a Republican "do over." Being a history buff, you remember how well that turned out. Some people just don't learn their history lessons, they are doomed to repeat the mistakes of others. Not exactly "Hoovervilles" yet, but give it time!
OCinBuffalo Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 Great, in the end we continue to turn the clock back to 1929 for a Republican "do over." Being a history buff, you remember how well that turned out. Some people just don't learn their history lessons, they are doomed to repeat the mistakes of others. Not exactly "Hoovervilles" yet, but give it time! As always, I tell the truth, tough schit, if you, or in this case, both of us, don't like it. We have to stop threatening Wall Street with jail. They don't care. We have to start hitting them in the wallet, and, make them work some menial government job. That is a deterrent for them. Hey I have been warning the left since 2007 not to: 1. get cocky about winning Congress, as it was not their win, but the Republican's loss. 2. think they aren't accountable for results. Sitting around saying Bushbad for 6 years '= being able to govern effectively 3. get even more cocky with Obama winning, see #1. 4. think that the US is somehow a left leaning country...because of the mistakes of 1 Republican president 5. to approach every single thing on their agenda as though most of our people want what they want - because they don't and never will but they did it anyway. The Democrats have failed miserably at every single thing they have tried to do. Sure, in the short term they passed Obamacare and Dowd Frank. Now these pathetic little battles won will be used against them and they will lose the war. This could have gone differently for the Democrats, and they have no one to blame but themselves.
/dev/null Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 With the powers that be. The powers that be? The 1%? The Man? The Bilderbergs? Haliburton? Not exactly "Hoovervilles" yet, but give it time! Obamavilles This could have gone differently for the Democrats, and they have no one to blame but themselves. They'll find somebody else to blame
Dante Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 If this movement is so irrelevant... Why do I detect fear? Maybe I am really an anarchist... Believe it or not, I sympathize with both the Teabaggers and the OWS loons. Loons are loons and I recognize it! Nothing wrong with shaking the tree from the roots. Of course it can always topple on you, but who cares... Isn't that what it is all about? No fear on my side. I see it as showing what the left really is for all to see. A bunch of envious parasites with no direction. It's actually galvanizing the Conservative surge in this country. Thank you retards.
John Adams Posted November 3, 2011 Author Posted November 3, 2011 Agree with Dante. The OWS thing is tiny compared to its rival Tea Party rallies, and it has no goal, agenda, or theme besides "I want what I don't have." That and "let's break some windows."
Magox Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 I was listening to NPR this morning, and they cited the closing of the Port of Oakland/San Francisco and the smashing of bank windows, and then interviewed a free lance reporter who said that the demonstrations were peaceful. Then the host asked him, why did they shut the port down, and his the free lance reporters answer was to demonstrate their power. So exactly how does this advance their agenda? Since Pete has attended these rallies and sympathizes with these folks, I would like to hear from his perspective what the reasoning is behind both of the smashing of the bank windows and shutting down one of the largest ports in the US?
John Adams Posted November 3, 2011 Author Posted November 3, 2011 Magox, you asked it here first but I'm hung up on it today: Why were the Tea Party rallies, which were so much bigger, not filled with violence like these protests? "Mostly peaceful" makes it into all the stories today...along with broken windows, M80 launchers, throwing bottles, breaking into a building, people locked in stores for fear of safety, others not being able to go to work...and 40 arrests. Sorry, that's a violent protest.
RkFast Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 Seriously...I dont understand the end game as to what these people want. They are not going after the scumbag bankers who gamed the system. Now, it seems the "target" is ANYONE with money, even those who earned it fairly and ethically. ANY company that turns a fair profit is fair game. A bank forecloses on someone who simply overextended themselves and cant pay their bills. The lender did the right thing and provided a straight down the line 30 year fixed mortgage.... but its STILL the lender who somehow "took advantage" of that homeowner and therefore is "greedy." Im sorry, NONE of this makes sense to me.
DC Tom Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 Seriously...I dont understand the end game as to what these people want. They are not going after the scumbag bankers who gamed the system. Now, it seems the "target" is ANYONE with money, even those who earned it fairly and ethically. ANY company that turns a fair profit is fair game. A bank forecloses on someone who simply overextended themselves and cant pay their bills. The lender did the right thing and provided a straight down the line 30 year fixed mortgage.... but its STILL the lender who somehow "took advantage" of that homeowner and therefore is "greedy." Im sorry, NONE of this makes sense to me. It's because they're anti-capitalists and anti-globalists. That simple. And the same old agenda: rich people oppress everyone else. "Occupy Wall Street" is more symbolic than anything (as evidenced that they're "occupying Wall Street" in places such as Oakland, London, DC, etc.
Magox Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) Magox, you asked it here first but I'm hung up on it today: Why were the Tea Party rallies, which were so much bigger, not filled with violence like these protests? "Mostly peaceful" makes it into all the stories today...along with broken windows, M80 launchers, throwing bottles, breaking into a building, people locked in stores for fear of safety, others not being able to go to work...and 40 arrests. Sorry, that's a violent protest. There is no other rational explanation other than hypocrisy. I remember reading Politico and WAPO during the healthcare debates and just about every week, the coverage was filled with stories and accounts of racism from a bunch of middle aged white men. This wasn't just "reported" by these news outlets but by just about from every other news outlet out there. Now we have a movement that has clearly showed many unlawful, sometimes violent forms of protest and the media merely reports the factual side of the account, but with no narrative along with it, such as the narratives they created during the health care debates, which of course was that the Tea Party movement was fueled by racism. And if they do create a narrative for the OWS protests, its a narrative in support of it. For example, maybe they will interview one of the sane and rational OWS protesters and that interview will be about how that person lost his job or his home or what have you. That's the major difference. Listen, I happen to believe there are some honest grievances within the movement, but the way the movement has been covered by the media relative to the Tea Party movement is an embarrassment of true journalism. Don't you remember seeing on Politico all the images of some Kooky looking white dude yelling with a story that had racial implications? I certainly do. The reason for the hypocrisy is quite simple, they sympathize with OWS crowd and loathe what the Tea Party stands for. That's it. Edited November 3, 2011 by Magox
IDBillzFan Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 Magox, you asked it here first but I'm hung up on it today: Why were the Tea Party rallies, which were so much bigger, not filled with violence like these protests? There are many answers to this, but from my own perspective, the biggest reason is also what I consider to be the primary reason OWS has turned into the disorganized stinkmess it now is: because they don't leave. To add insult to injury, they refuse to leave until their yet-undetermined demands are met. This invites the stragglers, the homeless, and the druggies, as we've seen most prominently in Zuccotti Park (with the food folks protesting the protesters). Yes, every once in a while they break off and go shout in front of someone's home, or in the case of Oakland, the port (which makes absolutely no sense to me), but in the end, they have no leverage because they are threatening to stay until their demands are met, and yet they have no demands. Now throw in the undesirable elements, which leads to drugs, fights, broken windows, sexual abuse of minors and rape, and no one will be surprised when someone dies over the next couple of months. Alternately, from my own experience, tea party folks were ultimately run more like a company because the protesters were constantly asking "What can we do beyond protest?" They'd gather, have speakers, put forth and distribute plans on who to target in the next election, teach them how to help their candidates get elected, as well as establish follow ups with where the next meeting would be, what the goals would be, etc. And all the while, the message was clear to all of us: stay on message, stay respectful, don't pick a fight no matter who tries to bait you, and here's a trashbag...don't leave a mess. As a result, you actually have Tea Party elected representatives. Can you possible imagine a world after the 2012 elections there are such things as OWS senators? Not a chance.
Chef Jim Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 In this country being a whiny little B word is not how to get things changed. It's a political process and needs to be done through the ballot box. I used to think it was a long process but the Tea Partiers showed that in 2010 it's not. Get out of the street, stop breaking **** and endorse a candidate.
DC Tom Posted November 3, 2011 Posted November 3, 2011 In this country being a whiny little B word is not how to get things changed. It's a political process and needs to be done through the ballot box. I used to think it was a long process but the Tea Partiers showed that in 2010 it's not. Get out of the street, stop breaking **** and endorse a candidate. Sad holdover of the Civil Rights movement. Protesters nowadays look to the civil rights protests as examples of how to effect change, not understanding that there was so much more to it than an unorganized mob walking the streets and chanting.
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