Taro T Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 What is the obvious deficiency? Is it arm strength? Is it accuracy? Consistency? Too Small? I see it in the results; the missed plays, dropped balls failure to hit the open guy, but I am never quite sure how to distinguish between bad throws and WR skill on many of those throws. If you look at AJ Greens plays he wasn’t the benefactor of perfectly placed balls, he beat guys to go get it. Danorris Moore, is sort of the same. So what is the thing that makes Fitz Mediocre? What kept him on the bench behind all those guys he backed up before? Has anyone ever seen a breakdown of the deficits? Yesterday, I would suggest that whatever was the reason his finger was taped up was a significant portion of it.
JohnC Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) Team have gone a long way with QBs who are not as good as Fitz. The Chiefs and Cassell come to mind as just one example. I worry a lot less abbout Fitz than I do a couple of early first round draft picks that make big bucks and produce little. The Chiefs with Cassell as their starting qb have not been able to sustain their one year upswing. Cassell is playing hurt so I don't want to qb be unfairly critical. My view of Cassell is that he is a more of a manager type qb than playmaker type qb such as the upper tier qbs in this league. In my view Fitz falls in the Cassell/Orton type of qbs. They are legitimate starting qbs who fall in the average category. If you review the caliber of qbs playing in the SBs or regularly advance in the playoffs those qbs are at a much higher strata. I worry a lot less about Fitz than I do a couple of early first round draft picks that make big bucks and produce little. McFadden was a very high draft picks for the Raiders a few years ago. It wasn't until this year that he has demonstrated how impactful a player he is. Sometimes it simply takes time. I have said all along since the drafting of Spiller that he will be a quality player for us. Despite his limited play thus far I am very convinced that he is going to be a good player for us in due time. Be patient. I'm confident that you will with reluctance come around on this player issue. Edited October 3, 2011 by JohnC
LABills08 Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Yesterday, I would suggest that whatever was the reason his finger was taped up was a significant portion of it. I think Fitz's problems are a combination of having WR that are good, but don't have the talent to really 'help' a QB out. Stevie might be an exception bc of his ability to get open, but Donald Jones and David Nelson aren't going to beat a 2 man coverage deep (not fast enough) and they aren't going to jump up and grab the ball out of the air like AJ Green, Julio Jones and some of the other really good young receivers. In essence, Fitz has to make near perfect throws in order to excel. That being said, accuracy has ALWAYS been a huge issue. He's made up for it with his intelligence. He is a student of the game, understands coverages, reads blitzes, and makes all of these decisions really quickly. As Chan said I think, if you make a decision faster and get the ball out quicker, it gets there at the same time as it does for a guy with an absolute gun of an arm. That being said, anyone who watches football knows that if you have the arm strength/accuracy of Rodgers, Brady, Rivers......its a huge asset. You can throw those 20 yard bullets down the seam for completions. A 20 yard throw down the seam from someone with a cannon can be a completion. For a guy like Fitz, its an interception or the ball is knocked down. So I think its a combination of those things. But again, that doesn't mean he can't be successful. Just look at guys like Kurt Warner. Kurt had a good arm, but it wasn't like he was throwing Brett Favre fastballs.
JohnC Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 What is the obvious deficiency? Is it arm strength? Is it accuracy? Consistency? Too Small? I see it in the results; the missed plays, dropped balls failure to hit the open guy, but I am never quite sure how to distinguish between bad throws and WR skill on many of those throws. If you look at AJ Greens plays he wasn’t the benefactor of perfectly placed balls, he beat guys to go get it. Danorris Moore, is sort of the same. So what is the thing that makes Fitz Mediocre? What kept him on the bench behind all those guys he backed up before? Has anyone ever seen a breakdown of the deficits? [/font] Accuracy and arm strength. Fitz is terrific at quickly processing information and decisively responding. Because of his limited arm strength there are passes that he can't always adequately make. He, moreso than any other factor, is the reason that our OL has elevated its play because he quickly gets rid of the ball. It's not merely that he quickly gets rid of the ball, anyone can do that, it's that he knows where to go with it. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. Fitz is a legitimate starting qb in this league. In my opinion he ranks in the lower mid-level range. If you have championship aspirations that won't get you to that level. I think Fitz's problems are a combination of having WR that are good, but don't have the talent to really 'help' a QB out. Stevie might be an exception bc of his ability to get open, but Donald Jones and David Nelson aren't going to beat a 2 man coverage deep (not fast enough) and they aren't going to jump up and grab the ball out of the air like AJ Green, Julio Jones and some of the other really good young receivers. In essence, Fitz has to make near perfect throws in order to excel. That being said, accuracy has ALWAYS been a huge issue. He's made up for it with his intelligence. He is a student of the game, understands coverages, reads blitzes, and makes all of these decisions really quickly. As Chan said I think, if you make a decision faster and get the ball out quicker, it gets there at the same time as it does for a guy with an absolute gun of an arm. That being said, anyone who watches football knows that if you have the arm strength/accuracy of Rodgers, Brady, Rivers......its a huge asset. You can throw those 20 yard bullets down the seam for completions. A 20 yard throw down the seam from someone with a cannon can be a completion. For a guy like Fitz, its an interception or the ball is knocked down. So I think its a combination of those things. But again, that doesn't mean he can't be successful. Just look at guys like Kurt Warner. Kurt had a good arm, but it wasn't like he was throwing Brett Favre fastballs. [/font] Kurt Warner got rid of the ball quickly and was stunningly accurate. There is a good chance that he will be in the HOF. It will be due to his most impressive attribute, his accuracy.
Webster Guy Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 "7) I understand that we needed more pass rush, especially against a rookie. That said, McKelvin is to the secondary what JP Losman is to the QB position. McKelvin has all the speed in the world, but he caught out of position and picked on by a rookie. He will make a play here and there because of his talent but that's not enough. It would be nice to be able to count on him. " Bill, I think this is a very mild assessment of McToast's liabilities....he has zero, I mean ZERO ball skills and even worse awareness. I was literally screaming at the TV while the ball was in the air to Green for McKelvin to TURN AROUND. He has no sense of timing and no body control, such that he literally throws himself at the receiver (or in some other direction) after the catch is being made. I think this nightmare of a CB is going to be a wet dream for all opposing OCs this year.......... Im not saying he's great, but he played a solid game against NE, that Brady pick and especially hammering Welker in the flat on 3rd down on our 6 yard line to force a field goal. Our defensive coordinator left Leodis alone on 6'4 AJ Green most of the day. Not sure what anyone expects to happen in that situation, but first of all Florence should have been assigned to him all day NOT leodis, and they should've stayed in cover two the whole game to take away the deep ball on either side of the field. Leodis is normally our 3rd CB, and probably will be 4th if Williams comes back to have a decent year. As a 4th CB and kickoff return man (not sure why they yanked him from that job) I still like the guy.
Beerball Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 6) Speaking of weapons, Spiller continues to frustrate me. I know he didn't get a lot of touches, but it's time to ask why, isn't it? IF the Bills had hung on for a win then Spiller's run on 3rd & 2 would have been HUGE. Freddy went out after dinging a hand/arm. Spiller took the ball, stopped in his tracks, made a quick jump step and picked up the first. I saw no possibility of him getting the 2 yards at the snap, but he did.
eball Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 IF the Bills had hung on for a win then Spiller's run on 3rd & 2 would have been HUGE. Freddy went out after dinging a hand/arm. Spiller took the ball, stopped in his tracks, made a quick jump step and picked up the first. I saw no possibility of him getting the 2 yards at the snap, but he did. CJ also converted another 3rd down with a catch/run on a quick slant. Spiller deserves no blame for the loss yesterday; he wasn't on the field a lot and when he was, he produced two key first downs.
Mark Long Beach Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 IF the Bills had hung on for a win then Spiller's run on 3rd & 2 would have been HUGE. Freddy went out after dinging a hand/arm. Spiller took the ball, stopped in his tracks, made a quick jump step and picked up the first. I saw no possibility of him getting the 2 yards at the snap, but he did. Yeah, I screamed at the TV when I saw spiller stop. It was pretty incoherent but "...NO, NO!" figured prominently. But then he managed to pick his way through the garbage and get the first down. It was a big one and I didn't think he'd make it.
Fan in Chicago Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 11) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - You are being too kind to McK. He has been very very disappointing this year especially considering he is in his 4th year. AWilliams will see playing time when he comes back. McK may be gone next off-season - I am beginning to think George Edwards is in over his head. We have loaded up on D in the past two drafts and yet we cannot take advantage of these players. - Is it the scheme or the players ? Little to no impact from second year guys Troup, Carrington, Moats. What gives ? - Dareus is terrific. Williams and Dareus will be the nucleus of our D for years to come - We need a stud WR to help Fitz out. Nelson and Jones are too erratic - Byrd continues to progress and impress especially in run support - The next game is more important than the one we just lost. We will now know the true character of this team.
Coach Tuesday Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Im not saying he's great, but he played a solid game against NE, that Brady pick and especially hammering Welker in the flat on 3rd down on our 6 yard line to force a field goal. Our defensive coordinator left Leodis alone on 6'4 AJ Green most of the day. Not sure what anyone expects to happen in that situation, but first of all Florence should have been assigned to him all day NOT leodis, and they should've stayed in cover two the whole game to take away the deep ball on either side of the field. Leodis is normally our 3rd CB, and probably will be 4th if Williams comes back to have a decent year. As a 4th CB and kickoff return man (not sure why they yanked him from that job) I still like the guy. It looked like they put Florence on Green in the red zone. You don't recall why they yanked Leodis from the kickoff return job? Remember the NE game??? McKelvin is a super athlete with zero instincts, much like DRC. I do think a more cerebral defensive coordinator could get more out of him, much like Rex has done with the other Cromartie. But it's not going to happen for him here.
John Adams Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Fitz, as much as I like him, doesn't have arm strength to spare. If he is OK, we can beat the Eagles on Sunday. At least this season we go into games having a chance. No he doesn't but I'd rather have him like he was yesterday than Thigpen.
Lofton80 Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Big difference in the game was pass rush in the first half made Dalton uncomfortable and he made mistakes. Second half was a different story as Cinci kept in a lot of blockers and Dalton bought time with his feet making some good plays along the sideline scrambling to his right. Tackling was terrible as well. Lotta guys leaving their feet and tackling air. Offensively, Fitzy looked completely uncomfortable in the pocket throwing sooner than he had too many times. Call on Stevie Johnson's third down catch was huge as was the spot on 3rd and 1 in a close game. Spread offense drew a lot of middle blizes and the running plays between the tackles went right into the pile. Cinci was better than expected but a break or two and the Bills could be 4-0.
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