jwolf02 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 IMO, Fitzpatrick is at his worst, and least accurate, when he really puts a little oomph on the ball. Early this year, everything was timing patterns and he could throw at a reasonable "pace" for him. His completion percentage was fantastic, little to no INTs, etc. Without a deep threat, teams can jam the Bills receivers all they want, and since we're running with a really mediocre WR core, once they do get off the line there's very little separation, and Fitz has four DL in his face by that point, so he's got to "force" the ball, and that's when he has problems. If I was the front office, I'd get a couple burners who can keep the defense honest. Then I'd let the o-line get healthy. Fitz is fine when he can dictate his throws and timing on his own terms. Once you get a guy or two who can stretch the field - and get off the line - you can't cover all the underneath stuff all the time.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Man, his passes were off today. I thought he might have got over that hump. Even on his good days though there is some really bad passes. I'm afraid our times up and soon a lot of those passes will be costly interceptions. His accuracy has always been a problem and if it hasn't improved after 7 years it never will. I'll just keep saying it; Ryan Tannehill for QB.
thewildrabbit Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I agree that Fitz is hampered by injuries on the OL and at WR. I also agree that there are serious flaws in the Bills' coaching staff--notably on defense. But I don't feel those coaching flaws have significantly hampered Fitz's performance. The Bills' offensive coaching staff is the best it's been in a long time. If you look around the league, you'd be hard-pressed to find an offensive coordinator who'd design an offense that was a better fit for Fitz's strengths than the one Gailey has employed. Gailey has had success at making mediocre QBs look better than they really are. Look at what he's done with guys like Thigpen in KC, Fiedler in Miami, Kordell Stewart in Pittsburgh. Fitzpatrick had spent a number of years as a career backup/stopgap starter before coming to Buffalo. He began as a backup with the Bills, and became a stopgap starter after it became clear Edwards wasn't getting the job done. Not until he started receiving Gailey's coaching did he start looking like more than a stopgap starter. He's returned to Earth over the last few weeks, but I don't see that as Gailey's fault. I disagree. I see it as completely Gaileys fault. Why on earth does the team keep throwing when it isn't working? Fitz was able to make come backs earlier in the year when the line wasn't so banged up and the running game was actually working. Was it Fitz's fault that Fred Jackson only got 7 rushes for 17 yards? I look at this Phins game and the exact same thing happened in Dallas, the offense continually goes 3 and out trying to pass and the defense just keeps giving up points Is Chan Gailey also responsible for that horrible defense, you bet he is. He made Edwards the DC and has stuck with him. Thigpin didn't look so great after he replaced Fitz BTW what happened with the QB' guru's ability to transform Trent Edwards and Brian Brohm?
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 fitz lack of arm strength is the source of his inaccuracy. Needs to put his whole body into every pass, like it's a Hail Mary, messes up his mechanics. He'll never be the complete package for this reason. Sad but true
thewildrabbit Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Fitz has not played well the last few weeks. Earlier in the year, he was playing better. It is not just the loss of other players, in several cases today he had sufficient time and an open receiver, and misfired on the pass. In many of these cases he looked like he was rushing the throw even though the pressure was not there yet. However - I am willing to cut him significant slack for today's game, because I believe the constant flow of bad snaps REALLY threw off his timing and poise. I cannot remember seeing such a bad performance by a center in my life. If Levitre was actually a center, I would call for him to be cut. Since he was never meant to be a center, I think he should be returned to play LG or at worst LT. I agree, he hasn't played well the last 3 weeks. I am also willing to cut him some slack because of the injuries to that O line, Also because the OC-HC refuse's to try and get the running game working after the defense goes into the toilet This HC still hasn't learned that when the team is down by 21 points and then they continuously try to throw throw throw with a completely horridly bad O line....IT DOESN'T WORK! The Bills managed a great comeback against the Patriots and their horridly bad defense early in the season. That was before all the injuries to the line. BTW, good luck to Chan Gailey keeping his job if he benches Fitz and starts Pigpen. The last time i looked Tyler couldn't get the ball to the open receiver in under 3 seconds like Fitz can
Orton's Arm Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I disagree. I see it as completely Gaileys fault. Why on earth does the team keep throwing when it isn't working? Fitz was able to make come backs earlier in the year when the line wasn't so banged up and the running game was actually working. Was it Fitz's fault that Fred Jackson only got 7 rushes for 17 yards? I look at this Phins game and the exact same thing happened in Dallas, the offense continually goes 3 and out trying to pass and the defense just keeps giving up points Is Chan Gailey also responsible for that horrible defense, you bet he is. He made Edwards the DC and has stuck with him. Thigpin didn't look so great after he replaced Fitz BTW what happened with the QB' guru's ability to transform Trent Edwards and Brian Brohm? In Bill from NYC's weekly thread, someone pointed out that the Bills have no deep threat. That's partly Fitz's fault (no downfield accuracy), partly the OL's fault (too many injuries to let it block well) and partly the WRs' fault. Regardless of whose fault it is, it means that teams can (and are) stacking the line of scrimmage. That shuts down both the running game and the short passing attack, and may explain why Gailey hasn't been calling more running plays. Another reason more running plays haven't been called is because converting third downs is typically the responsibility of the passing game; and the passing game hasn't succeeded in converting many third downs lately. And as your own post indicated, Fred Jackson averaged a mere 2.5 yards per carry yesterday, so it's not like you could count on that to move the chains and compensate for a languishing passing game. Contributing factors to the poor average were injuries on the OL and the defense stacking the line of scrimmage. I agree that Thigpen didn't look good after he replaced Fitz. But when has Thigpen ever looked good? That said, by far the best ball of Thigpen's non-illustrious career came when he was playing for Gailey in Kansas City. Gailey designed KC's offense to fit Thigpen's strengths--such as they are, and what there are of them--whereas this year's Bills' offense is designed around Fitz's strengths. I agree that the poor defensive coaching is Gailey's fault, for having hired the wrong defensive coordinator. Let's hope that problem gets fixed in the offseason.
Reed'scatch83 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 I'll be the first to say that I love Fitz and think he's a great player and a winner. However, his inaccuracy is worrisome. He has a lot of good plays set up for him that he blows with head-scratching throws. I am honestly starting to wonder if he can fix the problem. Time is against him. The answer is NO. He is what he is...an inaccurate QB, but he is our only option right now. His accuracy has always been a problem and if it hasn't improved after 7 years it never will. I'll just keep saying it; Ryan Tannehill for QB. I'm TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU !!!! +1000000000000
Reed'scatch83 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Fitz is what he is.... He can lead a good team to the playoffs, he is unlikely to string together 4 error free games that it takes to win it all. I like him a lot I'm glad he is starting for us during this period where we need strong vet leadership but I think this front office pulls the trigger on a qb if the right guy is there still. As excited as we all were - this last month was progress but not a truly changed team or qb. I pegged 6 wins- I might say 7-8 now but I still think we are middle of the pack and playing above ourselves the last couple weeks. Not harsh criticism, just my take on building a winner- which I think is happening. Very objective ! I don't know if I'm glad that Fitz is strating for us but is better than all the Thigpens, Edwards, Losmans out there.
thewildrabbit Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 In Bill from NYC's weekly thread, someone pointed out that the Bills have no deep threat. That's partly Fitz's fault (no downfield accuracy), partly the OL's fault (too many injuries to let it block well) and partly the WRs' fault. Regardless of whose fault it is, it means that teams can (and are) stacking the line of scrimmage. That shuts down both the running game and the short passing attack, and may explain why Gailey hasn't been calling more running plays. Another reason more running plays haven't been called is because converting third downs is typically the responsibility of the passing game; and the passing game hasn't succeeded in converting many third downs lately. And as your own post indicated, Fred Jackson averaged a mere 2.5 yards per carry yesterday, so it's not like you could count on that to move the chains and compensate for a languishing passing game. Contributing factors to the poor average were injuries on the OL and the defense stacking the line of scrimmage. I agree that Thigpen didn't look good after he replaced Fitz. But when has Thigpen ever looked good? That said, by far the best ball of Thigpen's non-illustrious career came when he was playing for Gailey in Kansas City. Gailey designed KC's offense to fit Thigpen's strengths--such as they are, and what there are of them--whereas this year's Bills' offense is designed around Fitz's strengths. I agree that the poor defensive coaching is Gailey's fault, for having hired the wrong defensive coordinator. Let's hope that problem gets fixed in the offseason. Look back to that first drive where the Bills got a FG, 3rd down and 2 and Gailey calls a pass play... when the first 8 yards from the Dolphins 20 came from Fred on 2 plays. I don't get why the Bills are passing on 3rd and 2 I don't get why the Bills gave up on the running game this week and last week. Clearly Jackson was injured in the 2nd half this week. But last week against Dallas he had a 114 yards on 13 carries a 8.7 YPC avg and they don't run it more? The freaking man gets the nickname megamind and the last three weeks he has turned into megabuffoon. If something isn't working he doesn't have a plan B? How is it Fitz fault if other teams have figured out how to stop Gaileys offense, isn't it up to the HC to think up something new to defeat what changes the defenses have made? While I agree that Fitz has played badly these last few weeks, lots of errant throws.But then the entire team.has played badly right along with him. Ya know, this is kind of why I have always advocated building a big powerful O line with top talent and building a power running attack to go along with it. Screw this finesse offensive shi...err, stuff!
dbmu1977 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Fitz is throwing off his back foot and looks like he is in a hurry every on almost all his pass plays. That and his recieving core is completely decimated, he has no confidence to throw to the guys he's got. That first drive yesterday was a thing of beauty, but thye didn't score a touchdown. He looks hurried, maybe not having half his starting offensive line in front of him doesn't help his confidence.
Dorkington Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 We need a new QB. I like Fitz, but he can't work unless he's protected well and has reliable WRs. We need someone who is good enough to be good with a crap team around him.
K Gun Special Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Look back to that first drive where the Bills got a FG, 3rd down and 2 and Gailey calls a pass play... when the first 8 yards from the Dolphins 20 came from Fred on 2 plays. I don't get why the Bills are passing on 3rd and 2 I don't get why the Bills gave up on the running game this week and last week. Clearly Jackson was injured in the 2nd half this week. But last week against Dallas he had a 114 yards on 13 carries a 8.7 YPC avg and they don't run it more? The freaking man gets the nickname megamind and the last three weeks he has turned into megabuffoon. If something isn't working he doesn't have a plan B? How is it Fitz fault if other teams have figured out how to stop Gaileys offense, isn't it up to the HC to think up something new to defeat what changes the defenses have made? While I agree that Fitz has played badly these last few weeks, lots of errant throws.But then the entire team.has played badly right along with him. Ya know, this is kind of why I have always advocated building a big powerful O line with top talent and building a power running attack to go along with it. Screw this finesse offensive shi...err, stuff! youve continued to post this stat but he wasnt avg 8.7 yards until garbage time, when dallas was running a prevent defense and didnt care about the running game. A huge part of the problem is Fitz, he isnt hitting his open guys. I know his WR did him no favors but a high caliber QB isnt throwing high and missing on all those other throws. Its mind boggling that fans can watch the collapse of this team and refuse to attribute it to the poor play of the QB. Ive said from the beginning that FItz isnt all that great. His numbers are bearing that out, he's reverting to a mediocre QB who had a few hot games.
bananathumb Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 youve continued to post this stat but he wasnt avg 8.7 yards until garbage time, when dallas was running a prevent defense and didnt care about the running game. A huge part of the problem is Fitz, he isnt hitting his open guys. I know his WR did him no favors but a high caliber QB isnt throwing high and missing on all those other throws. Its mind boggling that fans can watch the collapse of this team and refuse to attribute it to the poor play of the QB. Ive said from the beginning that FItz isnt all that great. His numbers are bearing that out, he's reverting to a mediocre QB who had a few hot games. Gonna be tough watching more seasons with Fitz as our franchise QB. Kelly Holcomb plus.
nick in* england Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) When did Fitpatrick ever manage to be accurate? NEVER. Why is this a surprise right now? For everyone that drank the Kool-Aid - go back and watch the first half of the first three games this year. Despite the wins, Fitzpatrick was off in those starts. We scraped wins despite his errant ways early on. Edited November 21, 2011 by Nick in England
Dorkington Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) According to NFL.com http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=1&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_COMPLETION_PERCENTAGE Fitzpatrick is 5th in the league in terms of accuracy. How much higher is he expected to be? (4th highest INT number though, I think its because he has to force a lot of passes more than he is inaccurate though) Edited December 5, 2011 by Dorkington
BuffaloBillsForever Posted December 5, 2011 Author Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) According to NFL.com http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=1&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_COMPLETION_PERCENTAGE Fitzpatrick is 5th in the league in terms of accuracy. How much higher is he expected to be? (4th highest INT number though, I think its because he has to force a lot of passes more than he is inaccurate though) When you throw passes <10 yeards, the odds of a completion is much greater. It's a misleading stat when you consider that is the type of passes he completes. He is an inaccurate passer downfield in the intermediate to long routes. I don't think anyone can question that. He is not a complete passer because he is one dimensional to the short game. Remember that Trent Edwards completed a lot of passes too. Instead of checkdowns to the back Fitz is completing short passes to WR because of the spread offense. Those are high completion throws by any quarterback. This is why there are some NFL stats like completion% that is VERY misleading and doesn't tell you much about quarterback play. Edited December 5, 2011 by BuffaloBillsForever
HeHateMe Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 Perfect example of the stats not telling the whole story.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted December 5, 2011 Author Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) According to NFL.com http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=1&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_COMPLETION_PERCENTAGE Fitzpatrick is 5th in the league in terms of accuracy. How much higher is he expected to be? (4th highest INT number though, I think its because he has to force a lot of passes more than he is inaccurate though) In 2008, the season where we started 4 and 0, Trent Edwards FINISHED the season with a 65.5% completion percentage which is top tier. Better than Fitz has right now (or will ever be) and will likely be lower than Trents best year when the season is done . In 2009 it was 60.1%, which is again pretty good. See how its misleading and doesn't mean anything? Edited December 5, 2011 by BuffaloBillsForever
NoSaint Posted December 5, 2011 Posted December 5, 2011 According to NFL.com http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=1&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_COMPLETION_PERCENTAGE Fitzpatrick is 5th in the league in terms of accuracy. How much higher is he expected to be? (4th highest INT number though, I think its because he has to force a lot of passes more than he is inaccurate though) unfortunately when you sort by yards per - he drops to 21st.
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