Do the bills have the best O-line in the NFL?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Does anyone really think this line could give Fitz 4-5 seconds to stand back there and go through progressions and be comfortable in the pocket?

 

Seriously?

 

This line has been awesome in three games. There have been no blown assignments, jailbreaks or penalties. It cannot be under estimated. The biggest surprise in the three games has been the OL. They have been way better than anyone, other than themselves and the Bills offense, could have expected. They are the main reason that Fitz can do what he does. It's never because one guy is great. There has never been a great passer with a terrible line.

 

But..

 

That doesn't mean they are great. Most teams and Qbs that get a lot of time get 3-4 or 4-5 second to throw. Brady did against the Bills last week. Sometimes he had 5-7 seconds to throw. Fitz has 2 sometimes 3. He throws immediately. He never just sits back and looks around the defense like Brady does.

 

But that's what make Fitz so good, and so valuable. He can read the defense and make the decision and make the throw quickly as good as anyone. I don't think fans give Fitz enough credit.

 

I very much doubt that Drew Brees, one of the top 4-5 Qbs in the entire league, would be better on the Bills than Fitz is on the Bills.

 

Great points about Fitz's quick decisions and quick release. That said, I have seen times this year where Fitz has had time to step up in the pocket and survey the field.

Not as much time as Brady typically has, or as Kelly sometimes did on film - yet. And not the whole game. And the 3 seconds this year, are not the same 3 seconds as last year. Fitz didn't get sacked a lot last year, but he got dirty a lot from being hit after or sometimes as he threw.

 

I also take your point that a lot of top QB couldn't stay nearly as clean or play as well with the same line. From what I've seen, Drew Brees may be one of the few top QB who could. His line wasn't so tough last year, and he is one slippery, side-stepping make 'em miss mutha. Even there, Saints line play and Brees INTs have a correlation.

 

Tom Brady or Philip Rivers or Joe Flacco though....I don't think they'd be chest-bumping this line. Vick would be whining like a vinyard about not getting flags.

And let's not talk about Sanchez or Eli Manning.

[Defend Greece]

As I've stated many times, The current line has yet to face a top defense or even a bad one with a top pass rush. I watched these same basic guys get manhandled by the Jets-Vikings-Patriots in the latter part of last season. So I'm not entirely convinced they are the best at what they do just yet, and Ive stated such in other posts in this thread.

 

Now granted this coaching staff has already greatly exceeded my expectations in regards to player discipline, few penalties, few dropped passes and well executed offensive plays, along with some good run blocking and pass blocking. But are they playing up to the level of a team like Green Bay or New Orleans? No, not yet, so I'd have say they are not the best O line in the league.

 

 

Just by watching what this coaching staff has been able to do with TE Scott Chandler has shown me they are far better then I gave them credit for being. So who knows, perhaps this staff can further develop this O line into the best in the NFL. The team should get better the longer they play together with continuity. Like I stated earlier the Bills face much tougher teams ahead with better defenses. So why not just wait another few weeks and ask this question again.

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, Kent Hull played 3 years in the USFL and was named to the USFL and Sporting News all league teams. He was on the New Jersey Generals and opened holes for Hershel Walker and Maurice Carthon. Bill Polian knew what he was getting when he signed Hull so it wasn't like he was an unknown scrub walk on free agent or a cast off waiver wire reject from another team.

You also forgot to mention 2 other players that anchored that great Bills line of the late 80's and early 90's -LG Jim Richter a 1st round pick by Chuck Knox in 1980 & LT Will Wolford another 1st round pick in 1986. All 3 of those Bills players had careers in the NFL for more then 10 years.

 

(Richter 16 years in the NFL) (Kent Hull 11 years in the NFL & 3 years in the USFL) (Wilford 13 years in the NFL)

Didn't the raiders lead the NFL in sacks last year and the are in double figures this year too

[Sig1Hunter]

Fitz, Jackson, Gailey, Campbell, the OL...

 

Victory has a thousand fathers.

 

Indeed....

[thewildrabbit]

I disagree. The Chiefs have Tamba Hali, who led the AFC in sacks last year. The Raiders have 10 sacks so far this year, but had none against the Bills. The Raiders have a defensive line that is regarded as one of the best in the league, and the fact that they didn't get a single sack against the Bills but are averaging 5 per game against other teams speaks volumes about how well our offensive line has played thus far.

Its all relative... so early in the season.... nothing speaks volumes about anything just yet

 

The Raiders might have a highly regarded D line but that defense is currently ranked 28th in the NFL,so they have given up a ton of yardage. They also allowed Mark Sanchez to throw for 369 yards. Plus the Jets have been without 3x all pro center Nick Mangold and it shows. I dunno where the NFL stats gets 10 sacks from, I counted 4 from Denver,and 4 from the Jets, 0 from Buffalo according to CBS Sportsline game tracker.

 

Anyway, look at the Bengals ranked 4th overall in total defense, also according to the NFL the Bengals have 9 sacks so far. But who have they played aginst... San Francisco 32 total offense-Denver 27th in total offense-Cleveland 26th in total offense. So one could easily say that the Bengals have played some teams with bad offenses Theit 4th overall ranking should get a huge adjustment after they face the Buffalo Bills.

 

Just like one could contend the Bills have yet to face a top defense- New England is LAST in the NFL at 32 (they allowed Chad Henne to throw for over 400+ yards) Oakland is 28th- KC is 23rd

 

 

Its my contention that because Fitz gets that ball outta his hands and to the open receiver in 3 seconds or under on almost every play it negates most pass rushes, dare I say...almost Payton Manning esq. Fred Jackson is also greatly helping negate that pass rush because he has been so explosive that they can't key on Fitz. To anyone that doesn't buy into the fact that its mostly Fitz, simply look at last years game without him. That same line that was playing so well with Fitz played horrifically with Brian Brohm behind center.

 

 

Like I've stated so many times now, it really is way to early in the season to crown any team as the best in the league at anything as so much football has yet to be played.

[3rdand12]

But there is a best in the league right now. There always is. after sunday that can change.

Oakland was a feared d line before our game. we also had concerns against chiefs and Hali ( who got nothing on Bell) so they moved him over pears for his sack.

I dont do stats well, but what i have seen is heck of a surprise O line regardless of Fitzes quick reads and throws and Fred's individual efforts.

Buffalo may not be The Best, but they are my favorite by a long way by effort and execution.

[C.Biscuit97]

Good thing Nix & Gailey stuck with their plan instead of listening to some of the idiots on here. This is a young oline that is developing more every game.

 

But we missed out on the great Tyson Clabo!!!

[Bill from NYC]

Good thing Nix & Gailey stuck with their plan instead of listening to some of the idiots on here. This is a young oline that is developing more every game.

 

But we missed out on the great Tyson Clabo!!!

 

Who is really an idiot? Someone who criticized an OL that was bad for almost 2 decades or someone who continues to sing the praises of Dick Jauron?

Edited October 1, 2011 by Bill from NYC

[C.Biscuit97]

Who is really an idiot? Someone who criticized an OL that was bad for almost 2 decades or someone who continues to sing the praises of Dick Jauron?

Haha. I simply don't follow the mob mentality that Jauron was the worst coach ever like most do here. He had 2 bad qbs & got the most out of them. He picked Edwards, who failed, so he got fired. And he's doing a good job as the Browns DC.

 

And it's funny because your whole mentality about whining about drafting olinemen high is proven foolish again. The 49ers spent a ton of high picks on olinemen and have one of the worst offenses in the NFL. Most good olines are filled with late round picks.

[Chandemonium]

Its all relative... so early in the season.... nothing speaks volumes about anything just yet

 

The Raiders might have a highly regarded D line but that defense is currently ranked 28th in the NFL,so they have given up a ton of yardage. They also allowed Mark Sanchez to throw for 369 yards. Plus the Jets have been without 3x all pro center Nick Mangold and it shows. I dunno where the NFL stats gets 10 sacks from, I counted 4 from Denver,and 4 from the Jets, 0 from Buffalo according to CBS Sportsline game tracker.

 

Anyway, look at the Bengals ranked 4th overall in total defense, also according to the NFL the Bengals have 9 sacks so far. But who have they played aginst... San Francisco 32 total offense-Denver 27th in total offense-Cleveland 26th in total offense. So one could easily say that the Bengals have played some teams with bad offenses Theit 4th overall ranking should get a huge adjustment after they face the Buffalo Bills.

 

Just like one could contend the Bills have yet to face a top defense- New England is LAST in the NFL at 32 (they allowed Chad Henne to throw for over 400+ yards) Oakland is 28th- KC is 23rd

 

 

Its my contention that because Fitz gets that ball outta his hands and to the open receiver in 3 seconds or under on almost every play it negates most pass rushes, dare I say...almost Payton Manning esq. Fred Jackson is also greatly helping negate that pass rush because he has been so explosive that they can't key on Fitz. To anyone that doesn't buy into the fact that its mostly Fitz, simply look at last years game without him. That same line that was playing so well with Fitz played horrifically with Brian Brohm behind center.

 

 

Like I've stated so many times now, it really is way to early in the season to crown any team as the best in the league at anything as so much football has yet to be played.

The main part of your post I was disagreeing with is not that the Bills have yet to face a top defense, but that they have yet to face a bad defense with a good pass rush. If fourth in sacks and 28th in yards and points allowed isn't the definition of a bad defense with a good pass rush, then I don't know what is. I will also say that as the season wears on, I expect the Raiders defensive rankings to climb. It's hard to look good as a defense when you've played a third of your games against an offense that is doing what the Bills have been doing so far. The same can actually be said for the Chiefs. I'm surprised their D is ranked as high as 23rd in yards allowed after getting totally steamrolled by the Bills and Lions before finally looking somewhat competent last week vs. the Chargers.

 

As far as the success of the line being mostly Fitz, I agree that having a QB that gets the ball out quickly helps the line, but every offensive line in the league is going to look worse without the starting QB in there and Fitz has had time to stand in the pocket and complete some deep balls this year. You also have to look at what the running game is doing. Freddy is having a great season so far this year, and a big part of that is the run blocking. Guys are consistently getting to the second and even third level on run plays.You're right that there is a lot of football left to be played and we'll see how the season shakes out, but based on what we've seen so far I'm not sure who you could say has a better line right now.

[thewildrabbit]

Now, still think that O line is the best in the league, or even above average?

 

 

 

 

BTW, the two best players on that line are #1 & #2 draft picks, you figure it out

[3rdand12]

i dont think anyone could have stopped that defense. those guys were relentless.

Shoulda won though and we coulda. I think we learned alot about who we are today.

[Trader]

Now, still think that O line is the best in the league, or even above average?

 

 

 

 

BTW, the two best players on that line are #1 & #2 draft picks, you figure it out

 

The O line got smacked in the mouth today and they didn't respond well.

[....lybob]

I like Bell and I think he matches up well against most speed rushers but today we see once again that he has a hell of a time against power but I shouldn't single out Bell because the rest of the line got pushed around pretty good too.

[thewildrabbit]

Anyone watch what the NY Jets can do with 3x all pro center Nick Mangold playing vs the way they played with him injured and a back up in the game.

 

The QB can't get into a rhythm because he is getting hurried, harried and rushed all game long. Same thing with goes for the running game, the backs have a tough time just getting to the line of scrimmage much less past it.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Now, still think that O line is the best in the league, or even above average?

 

 

 

 

BTW, the two best players on that line are #1 & #2 draft picks, you figure it out

And the Bills struggles at times today had nothing to do with the quality of their opponent. (Sarcasm)

 

AGAIN… what O-lines are better?

 

The Jets certainly look like they miss the retired Damien Woody and with Nick Mangold out, they were way below average tonight.

 

D'Brickashaw Ferguson looked below average tonight… not like the Pro Bowler that he supposedly is.

 

I agree with you that the Bengals O-line looks like a real good unit.

 

And while their tackles are Andrew Whitworth (5th year pro and former 2nd rounder) and Andre Smith (6th overall in 2009) their starting guards and center are two undrafted players and a 4th rounder. So you figure it out, Beard.

 

Bottom line (yet again for those who haven't bothered reading the entire thread) is that this is an era in which there are very few quality offensive lines and the Bills unit is developing very nicely.

 

While they only held their own against the Bengals quality defensive front, the fact remains that the Bills allowed only 1 sack and averaged 4 yards per rush. None of the Bengals other 3 opponents averaged more than 3.6 yards per carry or allowed fewer than 2 sacks.

 

In other words, the Bills O-line performed better than any of the Bengals other opponents and are certainly not the reason the Bills lost.

 

 

 

 

[thewildrabbit]

And the Bills struggles at times today had nothing to do with the quality of their opponent. (Sarcasm)

 

AGAIN… what O-lines are better?

The Jets certainly look like they miss the retired Damien Woody and with Nick Mangold out, they were way below average tonight.

 

D'Brickashaw Ferguson looked below average tonight… not like the Pro Bowler that he supposedly is.

 

I agree with you that the Bengals O-line looks like a real good unit.

 

And while their tackles are Andrew Whitworth (5th year pro and former 2nd rounder) and Andre Smith (6th overall in 2009) their starting guards and center are two undrafted players and a 4th rounder. So you figure it out, Beard.

 

Bottom line (yet again for those who haven't bothered reading the entire thread) is that this is an era in which there are very few quality offensive lines and the Bills unit is developing very nicely.

 

While they only held their own against the Bengals quality defensive front, the fact remains that the Bills allowed only 1 sack and averaged 4 yards per rush. None of the Bengals other 3 opponents averaged more than 3.6 yards per carry or allowed fewer than 2 sacks.

 

In other words, the Bills O-line performed better than any of the Bengals other opponents and are certainly not the reason the Bills lost.

Raiders- Packers-Lions-Patriots all come to mind without researching it... but perhaps even the Bengals considering Fred Jackson had 17 rushes for only 66 yards while Cedric Benson 19 rushes for 104 yards & total net yards 458 to 273. I'm pretty certain there are others and as the season goes forward I think we will see more and more.

 

An O line doesn't become "the best" because they play well against a few mediocre teams.

 

 

Currently the two best players on the Buffalo Bills O line are a #1 & #2 draft pick....wonder why that is

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Raiders- Packers-Lions-Patriots all come to mind without researching it... but perhaps even the Bengals considering Fred Jackson had 17 rushes for only 66 yards while Cedric Benson 19 rushes for 104 yards & total net yards 458 to 273. I'm pretty certain there are others and as the season goes forward I think we will see more and more.

 

An O line doesn't become "the best" because they play well against a few mediocre teams.

 

 

Currently the two best players on the Buffalo Bills O line are a #1 & #2 draft pick....wonder why that is

First of all, I never called them the best. I asked the question, "who is better?"

 

Judging from the smiley emoticon, I'm guessing this is a joke now because you can't possibly have missed all the documentation in this thread alone, of all the great offensive lines who had multiple undrafted free agents on them.

 

It seems unlikely to think that you're stupid enough to think that a team can invest top draft choices on the offensive line every year when they only have 7 draft picks.

 

Back to your post, the Raiders? Yes. The Raiders run and pass block well and are pretty young.

 

Packers? No way. For the last numerous years, they've been mediocre in both rushing and protecting the quarterback. Rodgers' quick-decision making and elusiveness pad their mediocre stats.

 

As for your comment that you don't become "the best" because you can play well against a few mediocre teams… both Cinci and the Raiders were among the NFL sack leaders… until they played against us.

 

The facts are that the Bills opponents have accumulated 32 sacks this year… but the Bills have only given up 3 of those.

The Bills have the 5th most rushing yards in the NFL.

 

 

[buffalover4life]

 

The facts are that the Bills opponents have accumulated 32 sacks this year… but the Bills have only given up 3 of those.

The Bills have the 5th most rushing yards in the NFL.

 

Impressive

[thewildrabbit]

First of all, I never called them the best. I asked the question, "who is better?"

 

Judging from the smiley emoticon, I'm guessing this is a joke now because you can't possibly have missed all the documentation in this thread alone, of all the great offensive lines who had multiple undrafted free agents on them.

 

It seems unlikely to think that you're stupid enough to think that a team can invest top draft choices on the offensive line every year when they only have 7 draft picks.

 

Back to your post, the Raiders? Yes. The Raiders run and pass block well and are pretty young.

 

Packers? No way. For the last numerous years, they've been mediocre in both rushing and protecting the quarterback. Rodgers' quick-decision making and elusiveness pad their mediocre stats.

 

As for your comment that you don't become "the best" because you can play well against a few mediocre teams… both Cinci and the Raiders were among the NFL sack leaders… until they played against us.

 

The facts are that the Bills opponents have accumulated 32 sacks this year… but the Bills have only given up 3 of those.

The Bills have the 5th most rushing yards in the NFL.

 

 

Yea well,"the best" was the premise of this entire thread, and up till now you have been staunchly defending the Bills O line as the best. So then you only wanted to know who is better, and I gave you several who are better just off the top of my head. Like I stated, the Bills playing well against 3 mediocre to bad defenses doesn't make any team the best at anything!

 

The smiley face was to reinforce the FACT that the Bills 2 best linemen are not the scrubs picked up off the waiver wire, but were in fact drafted with #1 & #2 picks, and simply to say that the current Bills line is NOT devoid of top draft picks.

 

 

So the SB winning Packers at 4-0 don't have a better O line then the Buffalo Bills? Why, because Aaron Rodgers holds on to the ball sometimes while running around waiting for his receiver to break open, and therefore takes more sacks and pressures. But then I suppose that's exactly what makes him so great. Both him and Big Ben.

 

What the Patriots managed to do against that supposed top Raider defense is because that Bills O line ruined them for the season? The Patriots, one sack allowed, almost 200 yards rushing, 200+ yards passing and a 31 to 19 win that really wasn't even that close. Simply because the Raiders looked like a top defense after their first two games only means they faced 2 bad teams.The Patriots went back to a balanced attack this week and took some of the pressure off Brady by running the ball more, clearly something they should have done against Buffalo. I have no doubt that Belichick won't make that same mistake twice.

 

 

I could post the stats of how well Fred Jackson does after first contact, and how many tackles are missed on him, and how many yards he makes by breaking tackles. But I think it would be lost on anyone who thinks the Bills have the 5th most rushing yards mainly because of the O line. Let me just say, 13 missed tackles on 47 rushes- 4.1 yards after contact per attempt is the best in the NFL after week 3.

 

The fact that Ryan Fitzpatrick usually gets the ball out to the open receiver in 3 seconds or under doesn't negate most of the pass rush on him? Oh I forgot, Its entirely because that line is so good and has only allowed 3 sacks this year that makes Jackson and Fitz only mediocre players and that any RB-QB would have the same stats behind that Bills line.

 

 

 

 

Oh BTW, add Tennessee to the teams that have a better O line

Edited October 4, 2011 by Fear the Beard

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Yet again, I never said the Bills had the best offensive line. Don't put words in my mouth.

I have not been "staunchly defending the Bills O-line as the best."

 

I asked numerous times, "who is better?"

 

I then proceeded to name teams that I thought had better lines.

 

If you want to continue to have a discussion with me I'm gonna have to ask you to be accurate/truthful in your summary of my comments. Please read (or write) more carefully. Whatever it takes.

 

While you won't give me credit for my assertions, you've done well (as have I) in naming teams that likely have better offensive lines than the Bills but you're getting contrary and needlessly argumentative.

 

I already said the Patriots have a better O-line so I don't know why you're harping on them in your last post.

 

In answer to your question, no I don't believe that the Packers or Steelers lines are better than the Bills.

 

And I'm quite familiar with the Rodgers/Big Ben talking points regarding O-lines.

 

By simply watching the games, it's obvious to the eye that both those lines are bad in pass protection AND bad in run blocking.

 

Regarding Fred Jackson, NO ONE has been a bigger fan of his abilities than I so you don't have to convince me that he's an elite back… I sense I'm still in the minority in considering him an elite back.

 

But the fact that his career yards per carry is around 4.5 but is up to 5.8 in 2011 is indisputable evidence that the Bills O-line is much improved this year.

Edited October 5, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan