D521646 Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 Ok, anyone notice that seemingly every commentator is calling Bilichick a brilliant football mind? Well, I watched the whole 2 part series, and can someone point out to me where exactly wew were witnessing this mind? I'm no hater, and I give Bilichick all the props for having signed Tom Brady, (Heck even his brilliant mind didn't know what he had when he had him), but seriously, without the competitior that Brady is/was having that massive 300 pound chip on his shoulder, the NE Patriots of the milenium are an average team at best. So my question, and I mean this in all honesty is, Is Bill Belichick really that brilliant, or is he more lucky than good? Tim-
eball Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 He's incredibly organized and has proven to be a brilliant strategist. Did you forget Super Bowl XXV? There's no question having one of the best QBs in the game makes any coach better, but Belichick has proven he deserves the accolades. He is also competitive to the nth degree (hence spygate). That said, the Pats* on defense appear to be a shell of Belichick's former units, and that may be their ultimate downfall.
MDH Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 Ok, anyone notice that seemingly every commentator is calling Bilichick a brilliant football mind? Well, I watched the whole 2 part series, and can someone point out to me where exactly wew were witnessing this mind? I'm no hater, and I give Bilichick all the props for having signed Tom Brady, (Heck even his brilliant mind didn't know what he had when he had him), but seriously, without the competitior that Brady is/was having that massive 300 pound chip on his shoulder, the NE Patriots of the milenium are an average team at best. So my question, and I mean this in all honesty is, Is Bill Belichick really that brilliant, or is he more lucky than good? Tim- It's like asking if Walsh was really that good or was it just Montana or Lombardi was that good or was it just Bart Starr? To win consistently a coach needs a high level of play from his QB but that alone won't do it. It's kind of funny, but depending on who you listen to on this board Brady sucks and is average, Bilichick is lucky and not that great - yet somehow that team has won for a decade straight. I guess I come from the camp of giving your adversaries all the credit in the world, that way when you beat them you've beaten a quality team. If all you do is rip them for being lucky how big can a win against them be?
D521646 Posted September 23, 2011 Author Posted September 23, 2011 Don't get me wrong, I respect Bilichick, but in this 2 part series I didn't see anything particularly brilliant. His use of Sun Tzu was awkward at best.. He made several comments about he couldn't get this team to play the way he needed them too? Just little things like that. I'm sure a lot of the strategy sessions were left out of the piece, and rightly so, but for me, the series didn't do a lot to convince me that Bill had any great insight into the game of football than any other coach? Tim-
Cotton Fitzsimmons Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 The interesting thing about Belichick is that he is a defensive guru, yet the Patriots of recent years are known as this high flying, offensive team. Despite Belichick's pedigree on the defensive side of the ball, the Patriots defense has been average at best for a while now. You have to believe without a big time QB their team would be quite average. On the other hand, they won 11 games with Matt Cassel. But, YE OLE does find it intriguing that for as great a defensive architect Belichick has been known to be that the Patriots defense has gotten so porous.
BuffOrange Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 Don't get me wrong, I respect Bilichick, but in this 2 part series I didn't see anything particularly brilliant. His use of Sun Tzu was awkward at best.. He made several comments about he couldn't get this team to play the way he needed them too? Just little things like that. I'm sure a lot of the strategy sessions were left out of the piece, and rightly so, but for me, the series didn't do a lot to convince me that Bill had any great insight into the game of football than any other coach? Tim- Exactly what were you expecting out of that series? If you don't think he had final say in what made that show you are kidding yourself. Like you said, most of the in-dept X's&O's preparation wasn't going to be broadcast for everyone (although the comment on Ed Reed letting Vincent Jackson run right by him because he knew the ball was going elsewhere was interesting). It also means he didn't care about the public seeing his self-critical comments during the Saints beating. And why should he care? That was the coach of a 10-6 team talking like they were 6-10.
The Senator Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 It's like asking if Walsh was really that good or was it just Montana or Lombardi was that good or was it just Bart Starr? To win consistently a coach needs a high level of play from his QB but that alone won't do it. It's kind of funny, but depending on who you listen to on this board Brady sucks and is average, Bilichick is lucky and not that great - yet somehow that team has won for a decade straight. Yeah, after sucking as a HC in Cleveland and his* first season (5-11) in NE*, cheating certainly helped reverse Belicheat's* fortunes. I guess it's much easier to be a brilliant coach when you know your opponents' signals, playbooks, game plans, etc. Having the league office and the officials in your pocket helps too... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As2va2GRAz4 JMO, but I think it's pretty clear that BB* hasn't won many big games post-SpyGate. .
Mike in Syracuse Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 He's incredibly organized and has proven to be a brilliant strategist. Did you forget Super Bowl XXV? There's no question having one of the best QBs in the game makes any coach better, but Belichick has proven he deserves the accolades. He is also competitive to the nth degree (hence spygate). That said, the Pats* on defense appear to be a shell of Belichick's former units, and that may be their ultimate downfall. I disagree. Thurman Thomas was averaging over 6 yards a carry in SB XXV. There's was no defensive "genius" involved. The plan was to keep the Bills offense off the field and Parcells, not Belichick, had a perfect gameplan. All this talk of Belichick being a defensive genius is a a bunch of hogwash. He stumbled onto the Joe Montana of our generation. Since he got caught cheating, he hasn't won a playoff game.
kickedface Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 nfl network needs to suck up to someone. they already have done so with rex ryan.
MattM Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) As I said last week, this was a puff piece designed to rehabiitate BB*'s and the Pats*' images. No more, no less. Think about the timeline on which it was made. It shows the 2009 season and on a production timeline must have been in the works for at least a year, ie., in planning right after Spygate. Kraft had a huge hand in setting up the NFL Network and appointing its senior folks (look that one up if you'd like). It all fits pretty neatly for those who stop to think and put the pieces together. Those reviewing it and praising it are remiss in failing to mention this, IMHO, but then again, there's almost no such thing as independent journalists (sorry John and Tim) when the NFL is involved, as too many media outlets have massive ties to the League.... Edited September 23, 2011 by MattM
prissythecat Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 genius is a a bunch of hogwash. He stumbled onto the Joe Montana of our generation. Since he got caught cheating, he hasn't won a playoff game. Didn't New England make it to the Superbowl post-Spygate?
MRW Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 Ok, anyone notice that seemingly every commentator is calling Bilichick a brilliant football mind? Well, I watched the whole 2 part series, and can someone point out to me where exactly wew were witnessing this mind? I'm no hater, and I give Bilichick all the props for having signed Tom Brady, (Heck even his brilliant mind didn't know what he had when he had him), but seriously, without the competitior that Brady is/was having that massive 300 pound chip on his shoulder, the NE Patriots of the milenium are an average team at best. So my question, and I mean this in all honesty is, Is Bill Belichick really that brilliant, or is he more lucky than good? Tim- Belichick is "football brilliant". Look around the league, see some of the boneheaded decisions that are being made, and you'll see Belichick start to look pretty smart just based on avoiding those mistakes. But he's not a genius. A genius is someone like Norman Einstein.
MattM Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) Didn't New England make it to the Superbowl post-Spygate? Yes, after the season they were caught. They've also been accused over the years of things other than Spygate--go back and read the NYT article from May 2008 that quotes anonymously a couple of members of the NFL Competition Committee (which polices alleged rule infractions) and they said that there was one team that they kept hearing complaints about over and over as pushing the envelope or downright cheating--the Pats*. My favorite part of that article? One of them saying "It was just one team, really, [that they kept hearing about over and over and over....]" Edited September 23, 2011 by MattM
Alaska Darin Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 I disagree. Thurman Thomas was averaging over 6 yards a carry in SB XXV. There's was no defensive "genius" involved. The plan was to keep the Bills offense off the field and Parcells, not Belichick, had a perfect gameplan. All this talk of Belichick being a defensive genius is a a bunch of hogwash. He stumbled onto the Joe Montana of our generation. Since he got caught cheating, he hasn't won a playoff game. There isn't a coach in the NFL who wins without superior talent. That's reality.
Meark Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 In part 1 did you guys hear Tom Brady on the sidelines in the Bills game where they almost lost if not for the McKelvin fumble? His voice was so high it sounds like he was about to start crying.. I'm sorry but I started laughing my ass off. Man I am still freaking pissed we lost that game.. What was McKelvin thinking.. I sure hope Brady is talking like that this weekend..
2003Contenders Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 One piece of that franchise that gets overlooked is Bob Kraft himself. I believe that he is hugely responsible for much of the success of the Pats over the last decade. No, not in the Jerry Jones sense. Rather, just the opposite. He lets the football men make all the decisions -- and trusts them to do whatever they need to do. Whether than means trading away an icon like Drew Bledsoe, cutting a player's player like Lawyer Milloy or trading someone like Randy Moss. Every player in the organization knows that BB has cart blanch, so they know it truly is his way or the highway. It is thanks to Kraft's trust that the team has developed such a culture over the years. The main thing I came away with from those shows is his attention to detail and his fearlessness. Everyone remembers the failed 4th and 2 against the Colts, but if the Patriots make that conversion the game is over. Note also that the day after the game he stood before the team and took accountability for the play call -- but made no apologies for it. I agree that in these shows BB didn't seem to say anything especially profound -- certainly nothing we haven't heard another head coach say. Of course, I am sure that he spoon-fed the media exactly what he wanted to, conveniently leaving out crucial Xs and Ys. The Xs and Os are only part of it. In fact, Wade Phillips was one of the best football-minded coaches that we have seen. He already has the Texans' defense ranked #1 in his short time there. But there is far more to being a good head coach than being able to draw up plays. It just seems like BB has the ability to get the players to buy what he is selling -- and that is what makes him so great. Part of that is thanks to the scouts for getting him the right kinds of players who WILL buy in. Part of that goes to Kraft for fostering an environment in which the players know that they MUST comply. And part of that is because BB simply has that knack. I can't stand him... but you have to give credit where it is due.
The Senator Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) Yes, after the season they were caught. They've also been accused over the years of things other than Spygate--go back and read the NYT article from May 2008 that quotes anonymously a couple of members of the NFL Competition Committee (which polices alleged rule infractions) and they said that there was one team that they kept hearing complaints about over and over as pushing the envelope or downright cheating--the Pats*. My favorite part of that article? One of them saying "It was just one team, really, [that they kept hearing about over and over and over....]" Actually, the last time the Cheatriettes* went to the big dance was the season they* were caught - the scandal broke early in the 2007 season, and their* last SB appearance (Feb. 2008) was the one they* lost to the Giants that season... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSyJVZUunyM ...and they* have not won a playoff game since then either, missing the playoffs entirely in the 2008 season and losing in their* first/only playoff games of both the 2009 and 2010 seasons. While the Belicheat* insists that, once the scandal came to light, they* stopped video taping of opposing teams defensive signals immediately, I have no doubt at that NE* had other methods of cheating that continued thru the Spring 2008 NFL and congressional SpyGate investigation-such as jamming or listening in on QB helmet frequencies, illegally using IR players in practices to relieve their* actives* from 'too many reps' in late season, etc. The 'just one team' line that you cited is also quite laughable, and yet another Cheatriettes* vile canard. In addition to being accused of video-taping the St. Louis Rams final 'walk-thu' practice prior to NE's* very first SB win*, the NFL 'investigation' also examined... One tape from the Miami Dolphins game on September 24, 2000 Two tapes, one offensive signals and one defensive signals, from the Dolphins game on October 7, 2001 One tape from the Buffalo Bills game on November 11, 2001 One tape from the Cleveland Browns game on December 9, 2001 Two tapes from the January 27, 2002, AFC Championship Game against the Pittsburgh Steelers One tape, from a "third camera", from the San Diego Chargers game on September 29, 2002 (per Wikipedia - 2007 National Football League videotaping controversy) Subsequent to their* Superbowl loss to the NJ Giants and the revelations that all of Belicheat's* and the Cheatriettes* pre-SpyGate seasons are tainted by cheating, NE* failed to reach the playoffs the following season (2008), were eliminated in the wildcard game in 2009 and, after clinching home field throughout the playoffs in the 2010 season, lost their only playoff game to the NJ Jets. Since the tapes were supposedly destroyed by Goodell once investigation was completed, the full extent of their* cheating may never be known, but I think it's reasonably accurate to say that Belicheat* and NE* were more successful before SpyGate forced them* to play by the same rules as the rest of the league. Edited September 23, 2011 by The Senator
Ozymandius Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 I'm sure a lot of the strategy sessions were left out of the piece You have it right, here. That series really wasn't an inside look at how Belichick does things at all. No crucial trade secrets were revealed.
Clippers of Nfl Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 im glad i didnt watch this garbage he cant change the clock or navigation in his car?? that's cute to pat fans and his family, not to me. read the manual dumbass or have brady do it for you.
Boludo Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 i liked the part where he was yelling at his defense for dancing around out there and called them a bunch of !@#$ing punks
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