Ramblin' Rob Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 seriously, name calling? For having an opinion on a public board? Wow, thanks for reading I guess? No, not name calling. Hating is an action or a feeling, in this case maybe a label but not a name. Had I called you negative nancy you would be right, but I didn't. In fact I like your name, I think it's clever. Your argument is clever I guess, just wrong in my opinion. Again they way over paid for lee for most of his contract. Were they also supposed to over pay Clements? Pat Williams was the only guy I could come up with over the past decade that they could have and should have kept at what ever price. Peerless? nope. Who? Who besides Williams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Honestly, if they play well, beat a few top half teams, and this(bolded) happens, I will be very happy indeed, but I will still hold my stance that it just made me sick to see them piss off Fred Jackson, a guy who has been nothing but a model of hard working, a leader, and a play maker for the last 3 years. That alone was a very classless thing to do. Again, this is just a unique situation. Remember, Jackson was not even the starting RB at the beginning of last season. That belonged to Spiller. That was a decision taken by the HC and had nothing to do with Wilson or Overdorf. And then the team goes 0-8 before winning their first game. At the end of the year, if you see, Jackson had a pretty average season on a poor team. Jackson is not at fault for the mess created by the Bills coaching staff for letting Spiller start when he was not ready, having Lynch play ahead of Jackson so that they could trade Lynch etc. Bottom line is that Jackson did not have the same season as a Chris Johnson or Foster, heck, he did not even have a season like Ben Jarvis Ellis. It would have been a big surprise for the Bills to have gone and redone Jackson's contract at the end of last season. It is what it is. If Jackson has a good season this year (with 2 years remaining in his contract) he will be paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Ralph is Cheap. I know you are being sarcastic, and like you, I am so sick of people saying that Ralph is cheap. He's an irrational, thrifty, budiniski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homey D. Clown Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 No, not name calling. Hating is an action or a feeling, in this case maybe a label but not a name. Had I called you negative nancy you would be right, but I didn't. In fact I like your name, I think it's clever. Your argument is clever I guess, just wrong in my opinion. Again they way over paid for lee for most of his contract. Were they also supposed to over pay Clements? Pat Williams was the only guy I could come up with over the past decade that they could have and should have kept at what ever price. Peerless? nope. Who? Who besides Williams? Thanks for clearing that up a bit, I appreciate that, the "hater" comment just caught me off guard, because hating the team, or it's owner is nowhere near how I feel, but I do have a lot of anger towards how the owner handles the financials of this team. Over the years people we failed to keep that I would base my post on were players like Joe Cribbs, Ahmad Rashaad, Daryl Lamonica, Tom Cousineau, Pat Williams, Antoine Winfield, Ted Washington, Nate Odoms, Will Wolford(These 2 really fall under Bill Polian though), and many more that would require me to find my old resources, but however you look at this team, it always came down to not negotiating with players, and at the root of my point is that good teams and good management find a way to make both sides happy, and this has not been the way at One Bills Drive. This franchise digs it's heels in and loses out more often than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffery Lester Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Mckinley. U R a douche-bag....one of the names u called Ralph....statistics continue to show the Bills to be middle of the road in salaries....Not bad u get payed average for sub-standard work....4 wins last year....What do u always hear from players when it comes to contract negotiations.....This a business.....This is not a charity.....the last player of status we lost due to salary was ...Pat Williams.....Lee Evans was never...I mean never a 1 wide receiver.......Still got payed......I am trying to figure out if you are desperate for attention....Or just horribly stupid.....So wipe the drool of your shirt and go put your Patriots jammies on....Stop wasting our time.... Mckinley. U R a douche-bag....one of the names u called Ralph....statistics continue to show the Bills to be middle of the road in salaries....Not bad u get payed average for sub-standard work....4 wins last year....What do u always hear from players when it comes to contract negotiations.....This a business.....This is not a charity.....the last player of status we lost due to salary was ...Pat Williams.....Lee Evans was never...I mean never a 1 wide receiver.......Still got payed......I am trying to figure out if you are desperate for attention....Or just horribly stupid.....So wipe the drool of your shirt and go put your Patriots jammies on....Stop wasting our time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Ummmm... you have to pay high draft choices big money, with very little leeway because of slotting. And every team in the league has to do the exact same thing. That's really a crappy comparison. The rant was we pay NOBODY big bucks. That is wrong. As for Fitz, Johnson and Jackson, they all signed their deals. Fitz was a free agent backup. Jackson was a UDFA who has been given a raise already. Johnson was a 7th rounder. All of a sudden we are winning and these guys are great and we hear "How come we underpay everyone???" Because none of these players, with the exception of Jackson, have showed until now they were worthy of a fat raise. In fact I vividly recall posters, you included, saying Fitz was a joke and we needed to draft a QB. Two games and now he's "franchise?" Thank you Mr. Weathervane for telling us which way the wind is blowing today. I know 1) you hate the Bills, and 2) you hate being wrong, but this thread is as dumb as they come, especially when Nix is currently negotiating deals. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 First, I have to say that I love the group of players and coaches this team is operating with this year, for the first time in more than 10 years it feels like this team has gotten it's collective $h1t together. in every area, EXCEPT where it counts most. I don't know why on God's green earth this team is determined to underpay each and every player it can, until they are forced to go elsewhere. You can trace this absolutely pisspoor behavior all the way back to the mis-handling of Pete Gogolak. Don't believe me, look through the team's history and look at all the talent this franchise has let walk out the front door(Bill Polian era is not included in this rant, as he would not let our miserly owner ruin his teams, and YES, the were HIS teams) and it's staggering, leaving you to wonder how much better this franchise could have been. We as fans suffer through 11 years of some really bad football, some total !@#$ players(See McGahee, Rob Johnson, etc) Moron coaches, and countless rosters full of talentless chumps, then sprinkle in just a touch of idiotic drafting, just a sprinkle now, or your brain will have a Chernobyl-esque meltdown, and you'll have to live the rest of your days looking for Kmart on 400 Oak Street. And what does our F-ing front office, under the direct influence of the team's BILLIONAIRE douche-bag owner go ahead and do after a dream-like 2-0 start to this season? They decide to NOT start real, fair and serious talks with the team's 3 most valuable offensive weapons in Fred Jackson, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Stevie Johnson. As a fan for most of my 40+ years of life on this planet, this recent news has just completely boiled me over. I just can't stand the constant short-arm, deep pocketing policy this team operates under, it's enough to make the most passionate and fanatical of fans disgusted. I watch this team, win or lose, from kickoff to final whistle, EVERY game I can get my face in front of, which is about 98% of them since 1979, so I am left to ask WHAT NOW RALPH? WHY CAN'T YOU JUST F-ING PAY YOUR PLAYERS FOR ONCE IN YOUR MISERLY LIFE? It's almost comical really. And please spare me the lame brained excuse he has brainwashed so many of the economic situation in Western New York, the NFL could operate a team anywhere in the country with ownership profit sharing, and TV revenue. Why do you think owners like Jerry Jones wanted player salary spending to be within a percentage of a team's cap? So stingy, Miserly owners like the Brown family and Mr. Wilson are forced to field a quality product, and not harbor all that money collected from the teams that actually WANT to win. The Buffalo Sabres ownership has really exposed the Bills this past year, and now that the latest news about 3 players getting the stiff arm from management has come on the morn of the team's best start(2008 doesn't count) in 15 years is just proof that this city deserves better than the owner that presides over this team. You're welcome to bash me all you like, but if this team continues to win this year, like I hope they do, how can anyone feel good about it when we aren't even committed to keeping the guys that are making it happen? All I would like to see is that they make a genuine effort, rather than piss off the team's most beloved player. These guys love the city, love the community, love the fans, so I say to everyone who made it this far in my rant, It's NOT THE AREA THAT PLAYERS DON'T LIKE, IT'S THE OWNER. Hold your head high Buffalo, you deserve it. End Rant. Fixed. I know you love the team, but I still feel somehow that - even when we actually win the Superbowl - the following mournful dirge represents the highest level of ecstasy you will ever derive from being a Bills fan... ...and I feel badly for you because of that. Cheer up. The Bills players aren't exactly clipping any coupons. Our long, fun-filled ride to Superbowl 46 has barely begun... GO BILLSSS!!!! "I expect to be undefeated." - Chan Gailey 19 and 0 baby!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smears Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Fitzy is 6-9 as a starter since 2010, turns 29 in two months, and is a sub-60% career passer. Fred Jackson is a 30 year old running back. And he's not a guy that shies away from contact. He's got maybe one good season left if we're lucky. Sorry, but you do not break the bank for these guys. Johnson, however, is young and is getting better and better. We should pay this guy what he's worth and make sure he's a Bill through his 30th birthday. I agree with everything you said but Fitz. He is going on 29 but his first chance to run an offense as the starter from day one. I believe in giving a guy an oppertunity to prove his worth. Fitz has and will keep doing well. He isnt old for a QB. But Freddy I feel they should give him 3-4 million for a 2 years. It will make him happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) I know 1) you hate the Bills, and 2) you hate being wrong, but this thread is as dumb as they come, especially when Nix is currently negotiating deals. PTR WTF you talking about? I love the Bills and if anything I am a homer. I have followed them religiously since 1965 and never ever miss a game (on TV) or in person. I'm eternally optimistic about them. I almost always, stupidly, think they are going to win. I love Ralph for keeping the team in Buffalo, I really like Buddy Nix, I love Chan, I love Fitz, Freddy, Stevie Johnson, Nelson, all of the new FA, I love both of the last two drafts, I love half their roster and I love the majority of the moves they are making. I even love CJ, and like Mckelvin who few do. I don't think Kelsay sucks. I don't think the OL is great, that's my only real criticism right now but I think they are playing great "for them". At 22, when my first live-in girlfriend told me she loved me for the first time, I looked her in the eye and said, "I love the Bills." (True story) So STFU. Just because I don't blindly love and blindly back them on every single solitary move like some myopic fake robots doesn't mean I don't love the Bills. As far as Fitz goes, I said early last year that I thought he was a career back-up. I didn't think he had it in him to be a legitimate starter because he never showed it before. I never said he sucked on the Bills, I said he sucked when he was on the Bengals, which was true. I was very surprised by his play early on, and before mid season last year, I said I was wrong about him. I loved him all of last year for his play, and said it all the time. I was one of his biggest supporters on here last year. I didn't think we needed to draft a QB and said that repeatedly. Edited September 22, 2011 by Kelly the Fair and Balanced Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 its early for this talk I think.....Williams got his contract (twice) and offers are out there to Fitz and Stevie...negotiatons are ongoing..... I think they will both get done by the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Before you jump off a bridge Meh. He should go ahead and jump... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 WTF you talking about? I love the Bills and if anything I am a homer. I have followed them religiously since 1965 and never ever miss a game (on TV) or in person. I'm eternally optimistic about them. I almost always, stupidly, think they are going to win. I love Ralph for keeping the team in Buffalo, I really like Buddy Nix, I love Chan, I love Fitz, Freddy, Stevie Johnson, Nelson, all of the new FA, I love both of the last two drafts, I love half their roster and I love the majority of the moves they are making. I even love CJ, and like Mckelvin who few do. I don't think Kelsay sucks. I don't think the OL is great, that's my only real criticism right now but I think they are playing great "for them". At 22, when my first live-in girlfriend told me she loved me for the first time, I looked her in the eye and said, "I love the Bills." (True story) So STFU. Just because I don't blindly love and blindly back them on every single solitary move like some myopic fake robots doesn't mean I don't love the Bills. As far as Fitz goes, I said early last year that I thought he was a career back-up. I didn't think he had it in him to be a legitimate starter because he never showed it before. I never said he sucked on the Bills, I said he sucked when he was on the Bengals, which was true. I was very surprised by his play early on, and before mid season last year, I said I was wrong about him. I loved him all of last year for his play, and said it all the time. I was one of his biggest supporters on here last year. I didn't think we needed to draft a QB and said that repeatedly. "At 22, when my first live-in girlfriend told me she loved me for the first time, I looked her in the eye and said, "I love the Bills." (True story)" That, is true love! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defend Greece Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Moneyball "At 22, when my first live-in girlfriend told me she loved me for the first time, I looked her in the eye and said, "I love the Bills." (True story)" That, is true love! !@#$ yeah bud!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Ralph is Cheap. Ralph is Cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 First, I have to say that I love the group of players and coaches this team is operating with this year, for the first time in more than 10 years it feels like this team has gotten it's collective $h1t together. in every area, EXCEPT where it counts most. I don't know why on God's green earth this team is determined to underpay each and every player it can, until they are forced to go elsewhere. You can trace this absolutely pisspoor behavior all the way back to the mis-handling of Pete Gogolak. Don't believe me, look through the team's history and look at all the talent this franchise has let walk out the front door(Bill Polian era is not included in this rant, as he would not let our miserly owner ruin his teams, and YES, the were HIS teams) and it's staggering, leaving you to wonder how much better this franchise could have been. We as fans suffer through 11 years of some really bad football, some total !@#$ players(See McGahee, Rob Johnson, etc) Moron coaches, and countless rosters full of talentless chumps, then sprinkle in just a touch of idiotic drafting, just a sprinkle now, or your brain will have a Chernobyl-esque meltdown, and you'll have to live the rest of your days looking for Kmart on 400 Oak Street. And what does our F-ing front office, under the direct influence of the team's BILLIONAIRE douche-bag owner go ahead and do after a dream-like 2-0 start to this season? They decide to NOT start real, fair and serious talks with the team's 3 most valuable offensive weapons in Fred Jackson, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Stevie Johnson. As a fan for most of my 40+ years of life on this planet, this recent news has just completely boiled me over. I just can't stand the constant short-arm, deep pocketing policy this team operates under, it's enough to make the most passionate and fanatical of fans disgusted. I watch this team, win or lose, from kickoff to final whistle, EVERY game I can get my face in front of, which is about 98% of them since 1979, so I am left to ask WHAT NOW RALPH? WHY CAN'T YOU JUST F-ING PAY YOUR PLAYERS FOR ONCE IN YOUR MISERLY LIFE? It's almost comical really. And please spare me the lame brained excuse he has brainwashed so many of the economic situation in Western New York, the NFL could operate a team anywhere in the country with ownership profit sharing, and TV revenue. Why do you think owners like Jerry Jones wanted player salary spending to be within a percentage of a team's cap? So stingy, Miserly owners like the Brown family and Mr. Wilson are forced to field a quality product, and not harbor all that money collected from the teams that actually WANT to win. The Buffalo Sabres ownership has really exposed the Bills this past year, and now that the latest news about 3 players getting the stiff arm from management has come on the morn of the team's best start(2008 doesn't count) in 15 years is just proof that this city deserves better than the owner that presides over this team. You're welcome to bash me all you like, but if this team continues to win this year, like I hope they do, how can anyone feel good about it when we aren't even committed to keeping the guys that are making it happen? All I would like to see is that they make a genuine effort, rather than piss off the team's most beloved player. These guys love the city, love the community, love the fans, so I say to everyone who made it this far in my rant, It's NOT THE AREA THAT PLAYERS DON'T LIKE, IT'S THE OWNER. Hold your head high Buffalo, you deserve it. End Rant. your are correct of course. and not only are you correct, but you can be 100% certain this will not change. we can only hope that 2011 turns out to be one of those rare seasons where the bills win despite the owner and his beancounters. 50 years of documented history proves ralph is a miserable old miser and that will never change. enjoy the season. Fixed. I know you love the team, but I still feel somehow that - even when we actually win the Superbowl - the following mournful dirge represents the highest level of ecstasy you will ever derive from being a Bills fan... youtube.com/watch?v=XgYGprICUy8 ...and I feel badly for you because of that. Cheer up. The Bills players aren't exactly clipping any coupons. Our long, fun-filled ride to Superbowl 46 has barely begun... GO BILLSSS!!!! "I expect to be undefeated." - Chan Gailey 19 and 0 baby!!! that is effing hilarious...too bad they had to ruin it by inserting that girl with the Houston gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) Ummmm... you have to pay high draft choices big money, with very little leeway because of slotting. And every team in the league has to do the exact same thing. That's really a crappy comparison. What would you expect from PTR? Ralph, just like any other owner, had no choice to pay the top picks relative to the area where they were slotted like you said. He brings up Spiller, and who was, I beleive the second to last player signed from the entire 2010 draft? Of course, trying to talk the contract as low as they could. It was a crappy comparison for sure. With regards to the OP, there is one constant with this organization going way back to when Gogolak left, and only one constant. I also like the players we have here, still short on talent in a few areas to be a true playoff contender, but it seems like they are finally headed in the right direction, but that can all change very quickly. Just have to play it week by week and hope they keep playing better as time goes on. Edited September 23, 2011 by billsfreak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 What would you expect from PTR? Ralph, just like any other owner, had no choice to pay the top picks relative to the area where they were slotted like you said. He brings up Spiller, and who was, I beleive the second to last player signed from the entire 2010 draft? Of course, trying to talk the contract as low as they could. It was a crappy comparison for sure. With regards to the OP, there is one constant with this organization going way back to when Gogolak left, and only one constant. I also like the players we have here, still short on talent in a few areas to be a true playoff contender, but it seems like they are finally headed in the right direction, but that can all change very quickly. Just have to play it week by week and hope they keep playing better as time goes on. Okay then. From now on every player signed to the Bills gets a $10M/yr deal so they won't be under paid. Even UDFAs. There is no arguing with people set in their beliefs. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Fitzy is 6-9 as a starter since 2010, turns 29 in two months, and is a sub-60% career passer. Fred Jackson is a 30 year old running back. And he's not a guy that shies away from contact. He's got maybe one good season left if we're lucky. Sorry, but you do not break the bank for these guys. Johnson, however, is young and is getting better and better. We should pay this guy what he's worth and make sure he's a Bill through his 30th birthday. I am one who has never believed that Fitz is a true franchise QB, but if he continues to play like he has, and hopefully continues to improve, I would never pay him Brady, Manning or Brees money, but an extension for a few years with a hefty raise would be much earned. As far as Fred Jackson, whom I am a big fan of, he has two more years on his deal, at which time he will be 32 years old (I believe), which at that point is the time when running backs usually fade into obscurity. Once you get a good system going, with a good line, running backs are fairly easy to replace (see Denver under Shanahan), so I wouldn't throw big bucks at Fred either. I would extend Johnson in a heart beat, but if he thinks he is worth Fitzgerald money, he is crazy. He has one really good season under his belt, and has a ton of talent and potential, but you don't give him that kind of money. If he takes a mid tier contract, which is still up there in the bucks, and doesn't think he deserves Fitz money, get it done, otherwise, let him test free agency, he isn't worth those top tier bucks. They have already extended the best young player on this roster in Williams, and you don't want to keep everyone. If the roster doesn't change, can you really get that much better? Okay then. From now on every player signed to the Bills gets a $10M/yr deal so they won't be under paid. Even UDFAs. There is no arguing with people set in their beliefs. PTR It has nothing to do with beliefs, every team had to pay the draft picks according to where they were slotted? Is it that hard to comprehend? I am not sure what you are even talking about signing every pick to $10 million dollar deals? You aren't making much sense today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 (edited) I am one who has never believed that Fitz is a true franchise QB, but if he continues to play like he has, and hopefully continues to improve, I would never pay him Brady, Manning or Brees money, but an extension for a few years with a hefty raise would be much earned. As far as Fred Jackson, whom I am a big fan of, he has two more years on his deal, at which time he will be 32 years old (I believe), which at that point is the time when running backs usually fade into obscurity. Once you get a good system going, with a good line, running backs are fairly easy to replace (see Denver under Shanahan), so I wouldn't throw big bucks at Fred either. I would extend Johnson in a heart beat, but if he thinks he is worth Fitzgerald money, he is crazy. He has one really good season under his belt, and has a ton of talent and potential, but you don't give him that kind of money. If he takes a mid tier contract, which is still up there in the bucks, and doesn't think he deserves Fitz money, get it done, otherwise, let him test free agency, he isn't worth those top tier bucks. They have already extended the best young player on this roster in Williams, and you don't want to keep everyone. If the roster doesn't change, can you really get that much better? It has nothing to do with beliefs, every team had to pay the draft picks according to where they were slotted? Is it that hard to comprehend? I am not sure what you are even talking about signing every pick to $10 million dollar deals? You aren't making much sense today. The OP says we don't pay players what they are worth. I said the reason for that is many of our current stars signed as low picks and UDFAs. The same people complaining we are underpaying our players were saying our players couldn't start on another NFL team 3 weeks ago. Considering Nix is negotiating with these players already, this thread is a Sully-fueled overreaction. PTR Edited September 23, 2011 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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