thebug Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I like to debate things and calling me a troll for doing so is brilliant buddy, nothing better to say, attack the poster, I know how it goes, Good Lord, common sense would tell you bigger splash means harder impact then preferred has occurred somewhere on the divers head or body. This thread was started in an effort to discuss ways to protect players from helmet to helmet collisions. I admit proper tackling techniques would be one of them. I also admitted to DrDare from a medical standpoint lowering your head increases the chance of severe spinal column injury. I respect the Docs opinion and have no argument that what he says is true. Its common knowledge and nothing new to me. With that being said I'm damn sure not going to admit proper tackling techniques or keeping your head up is going to stop all severe spinal chord injuries from happening in the game of football because its simply not true. So don't call me dense because I'm searching for a solution to a problem that is life threatening/ altering to athletes we know and love. You don't like my thread, don't post on it... Maybe this would help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Maybe this would help? hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Do you have a point here besides calling my comparison stupid? High diving is another high impact sport, at 50 ft the water is like hitting concrete, at 100 it could kill you. Your comparisons to diving are irrelevant. If you want to convince people of your POV, make relevant comparisons and site some applicable stats. You do know that jumping 50 ft into water is not like hitting concrete don't you? You do know that this is an exaggeration to make people understand that it is not harmless, right? I mean if you were given a choice between falling 50 feet into a pool of water or onto a block of concrete, you wouldn't say "makes no difference" right? You guys are making a huge deal out of using proper tackling techniques and it had nothing to do with half the serious neck injuries that have occurred in the game of football. Seriously? Which injuries are you talking about? What is more serious than paralysis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I really hope Fig never coaches in a youth league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) Your comparisons to diving are irrelevant. If you want to convince people of your POV, make relevant comparisons and site some applicable stats. You do know that jumping 50 ft into water is not like hitting concrete don't you? You do know that this is an exaggeration to make people understand that it is not harmless, right? I mean if you were given a choice between falling 50 feet into a pool of water or onto a block of concrete, you wouldn't say "makes no difference" right? Seriously? Which injuries are you talking about? What is more serious than paralysis? I admit I'm reaching for straws on the high diving, its not a good comparison As I said in a previous post, Kevin Everett's injury had nothing to do with improper tackling techniques. One of my points however is why should the defense get penalized for something offensive players continue to do, which is lead with their head. I really hope Fig never coaches in a youth league. If I did Dorkington, I would design and develop the helmet protection I spoke of in my original post along with the swivel/flex neck brace that connects the helmet to the shoulder pads and make it mandatory for my players to wear.(with the leagues permission) Plus teach them proper tackling techniques and anything else I could do to protect the players. I'm not disputing some of the already known facts and ways to help prevent serious injury, but its not enough. Edited September 21, 2011 by Fig Newton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) If Dunta Robinson had put his hands and arms forward, he probably would not have been flagged. He dropped his head forward and led with his head. Same as Kevin Everett, Dennis Byrd and Marc Buoniconti, and they all ended up with broken necks. Continuing to compare diving to football is stupid beyond belief. No, you are wrong. Look at the video and the picture. Leading with your head looks like a torpedo. He put his shoulder down and the side of his helmet made contact with Maclin's helmet. He put his shoulder squarely into Maclin's chest. Did his helmet hit Maclin's? Yep. Did he lead with his helmet, no. Watch the video without emotion. Edited September 21, 2011 by Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UticaBill Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 If the NFL wants to get serious, they should simply make the fines equal to 1 game check.... players will take that seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 No, you are wrong. Look at the video and the picture. Leading with your head looks like a torpedo. He put his shoulder down and the side of his helmet made contact with Maclin's helmet. He put his shoulder squarely into Maclin's chest. Did his helmet hit Maclin's? Yep. Did he lead with his helmet, no. Watch the video without emotion. Watch the link provided on page 1. Stop it at 46-47 seconds into the video. First contact is made by his helment on Maclin's chin with his head down. It was a dirty hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) Watch the link provided on page 1. Stop it at 46-47 seconds into the video. First contact is made by his helment on Maclin's chin with his head down. It was a dirty hit. These guys are moving at a very high speed Scraps,ever think maybe the offensive players movements/reactions have something to do with it, takes two to tango, the D can't read minds. why is a player going to intentionally cost his team 15 yards, Or cost himself thousands of dollars. Plus, Going helmet to helmet does not discriminate from one person to the other as far as concussions go, it could knock them both out of commission. It shouldn't be a penalty to begin with unless you want to start penalizing the Offense for doing the same thing, but regardless, it was not an intentional helmet to helmet hit in my opinion Edited September 21, 2011 by Fig Newton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 These guys are moving at a very high speed Scraps,ever think maybe the offensive players movements/reactions have something to do with it, takes two to tango, the D can't read minds. Robinson led with his head. He did not have to drop his head regardless of what the offensive player did. He led with his head and actually dropped his arms. Going helmet to helmet does not discriminate from one person to the other as far as concussions go, it could knock them both out of commission. Well it kind of does matter if you are hitting the guy in the chin with the crown or your helmet since you have at least some padding taking the blow and he does not. It also makes a difference if you drive the other guy into the ground and cause his head to bounce off the turf. It shouldn't be a penalty to begin with unless you want to start penalizing the Offense for doing the same thing, but regardless, it was not an intentional helmet to helmet hit in my opinion Sorry to hear about your blindness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Robinson led with his head. He did not have to drop his head regardless of what the offensive player did. He led with his head and actually dropped his arms. Well it kind of does matter if you are hitting the guy in the chin with the crown or your helmet since you have at least some padding taking the blow and he does not. It also makes a difference if you drive the other guy into the ground and cause his head to bounce off the turf. Sorry to hear about your blindness. do you know what intentional means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 do you know what intentional means Robinson dropped his head and led with his head. Sure looks like he did it intentionally to go for the big hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Blizzard Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I vote Gary Busey helmet. Bring back the Kelso! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) Bring back the Kelso! I'm a bit surprised that the Pro Cap, or some improved version of it, hasn't been mandated league wide to reduce the frequency of concussions. Edited September 22, 2011 by Scraps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) Bring back the Kelso! Players don't want to look like martians from outer space and the additional padding on the inside does not decrease the whiplash effect like padding on the team logos and down the center of the helmet on the outside would in my opinion. Its the hard shell bouncing off the hard shell that is causing the problem. Raising the logos 1 inch and the stripes down the center would look and work good. This would be an easy, cheap fix that would go a long way in helping prevent concussions. The team logos and stripes could be stick on and just place them over the original logos and stripes. The same should and could be done for all protective helmets in my opinion. Motorcycle helmet slamming into the concrete also has very little protection against the whiplash effect caused by two hard surfaces colliding. Padding on the outside would decrease the impact/whiplash effect resulting in less concussions/ head injuries/deaths. Edited September 22, 2011 by Fig Newton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Players don't want to look like martians from outer space and the additional padding on the inside does not decrease the whiplash effect like padding on the team logos and down the center of the helmet on the outside would in my opinion. Its the hard shell bouncing off the hard shell that is causing the problem. Raising the logos 1 inch and the stripes down the center would look and work good. This would be an easy, cheap fix that would go a long way in helping prevent concussions. The team logos and stripes could be stick on and just place them over the original logos and stripes. The same should and could be done for all protective helmets in my opinion. Motorcycle helmet slamming into the concrete also has very little protection against the whiplash effect caused by two hard surfaces colliding. Padding on the outside would decrease the impact/whiplash effect resulting in less concussions/ head injuries/deaths. Man you don't know what you are talking about. The hard shell is used to distribute the blow across a greater portion of the foam padding so that more of the foam absorbs the blow. How are you going to stick a raised logo onto the helmet of the Bengals or Browns anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 Man you don't know what you are talking about. The hard shell is used to distribute the blow across a greater portion of the foam padding so that more of the foam absorbs the blow. How are you going to stick a raised logo onto the helmet of the Bengals or Browns anyway? You do realize your brain can be damaged resulting in death by an abrupt stop right? the hard shell of the helmet on helmet is causing the abrupt stop and the inside padding holds your head snug does virtually nothing to prevent it, but I'm not going to argue with you about it. now you are making yourself look stupid buddy, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 (edited) You do realize your brain can be damaged resulting in death by an abrupt stop right? the hard shell of the helmet on helmet is causing the abrupt stop and the inside padding holds your head snug does virtually nothing to prevent it, but I'm not going to argue with you about it. now you are making yourself look stupid buddy, The padding in the helmet is compressible. You really are clueless. Edited September 22, 2011 by Scraps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 The padding in the helmet is compressible. You really are clueless. You are clueless, ever hear of the Hans device, or safer barriers used in racing, or how about a Basilar skull fracture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 You are clueless, ever hear of the Hans device, or safer barriers used in racing, or how about a Basilar skull fracture Yes, what does that have to do with helmet design? From the Snell Foundation How does a helmet prevent brain injuries? A good helmet provides the brain extra TIME and SPACE to avoid or reduce injuries. First, it is the sudden stop, not the fall, which causes brain injuries. Imagine yourself in a moving bus that comes to a sudden stop. Without a seat belt, your body would keep moving until you hit the back of the seat in front of you or the bus windshield. Imagine this: your brain tissues are like passengers on a moving bus. A good helmet acts like a good driver that gives your brain inside the helmet a little more time, a few taps on the brake, to come to a gentler stop. Secondly, when thumbtacks are used correctly, the wall is pierced, not the thumb. The flat of the thumbtack spreads the force over a broad area of thumb and the sharp point concentrates that same force against a small area of the wall. In the same way, a good helmet spreads concentrated forces from a rock or any irregular impact surface over a broad area of the helmet’s protective liner and the wearer’s scalp and skull. Instead of slicing through flesh and skull, the forces are redirected by the helmet. Not wearing a helmet is comparable to misusing a thumbtack, except that hardly anyone dies of thumb injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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