Another Lee Evans thread......

[Ramblin' Rob]

We should pin this prediction then for next April ;-)

I am with you. I normally like coachtuesdays insight, but i feel he is wrong several times in this thread. SJ was our best deep threat last year, and this year with 4 wide sets and a giant TE it will be hard for any one to cover everyone. Add Jackson and we look pretty good so far. He also said the OL is a problem but promises we will draft a speedy WR in the first round? Wrong again, it will be OL.

[tennesseeboy]

Apologies for starting another Evans thread but I thought it might be worth it since a) I'm probably the only dude on this board who actually watched the entire Balt/Pitt game and b)I'm probably the only guy on this board who hasn't missed a single one of those matchups in years since it's my favorite rivalry right now.

Here's the truth of the matter; Lee Evans has significantly altered the entire dynamic of this division rivalry. And I'd guess that these 2 games (and sometimes 3) are the biggest reason they brought him to Baltimore.

I don't care about math and/or whether he put up a single statistic. This game had Evans fingerprints on it right from the get-go. Do you know why Boldin was singled on the first TD vs a weak corner who'd been out all preseason? Because the Stillers rolled their coverage over at Evans. It's right there on the film if you want to see it. Did you know that Baltimore has repeatedly struggled to get their TE's and RB's involved in the passing game against the Stillers, and for many, many years now? Yet on Sunday they found enough space for these guys to catch about a dozen balls for 150+ yards. There were places all over the field where the Ravens have never been able to find space against Pittsburgh(flats and seams), yet now those places are suddenly vacant of defenders. I don't believe for a second that this is just a co-incidence.

For the first time in years, the Ravens have the ability to stretch the field in a big way. And suddenly they have more space to work with all over the field. If y'all think that Evans isn't a significant factor in this new equation, I'd have to say you're badly mistaken on that point.

 

P.S. This post is not intended to speculate on what Evans' may have done if he was still in Buffalo, or start tangents on why the Bills traded him. Just wanted to bring some light to the ongoing evolution of what I think is a really fascinating matchup. Doug Whaley is taking some grief from his old buddies in Pittsburgh right now because he played a part in altering the balance of power in this rivalry. But don't take any of that guff, Fresh! Give it right back to 'em with both barrels!!!

no point in arguing facts. The Kool Aid drinkers are going to point to no receptions and say we were lucky to get a fourth round draft choice. On the other hand, the new Buffalo receivers seem (albeit after one game) to be playing quite well, so the decision may have been to lose a long-term very promising receiver or keep a somewhat expensive guy who is only going to be great for a year or two.

Evans fits Baltimore and they will be looking at this like Oakland way back in the sixties looked at the trade for LaMonica.

 

I just watched it a bunch of times. Fitz couldn't have thrown it to the other shoulder, actually the DB had perfect coverage. D Jones actually made a great play to put himself in position, but didn't come down with the ball. Jones stopped at the right time, nudged the defender out of the way (but not interference), turned at the right time and jumped up to make the catch. He just didn't get his feet down when he could have if not should have. The ball was in the only place it could have been caught although I always think it's impossible to know if that is what the QB wanted (sometimes it is and sometimes it's just luck).

 

Jones made a really good play on the ball to put himself in position to make the catch but again didnt really time his jump right or go straight up, and didn't get his feet in bounds when he had a little room. It wasn't much but IMO he should have made the catch. It was a nice move though, especially considering he was blanketed while the ball was in the air.

hmmmm...he did everything right but catch the ball. I think they call them RECEIVERS for a reason.

[JohnC]

I flipped over to that game occasionally, and saw Flacco target Evans a few times but never connect.

 

I don't dispute that Evans' presence may have opened up the field for other guys, but at some point if you consider yourself an elite or even very good receiver, you need to do more than be a decoy.

 

I like Evans, but #1 WR's get open and catch balls, even when they're double covered.

 

Last week was the first game of the season. It seems you are rushing to judgment. Being elite or not elite is not the issue for Balitmore. If he opens up the field for the other receivers and for the running game he is making an impactful contribution to the team regardless what his personal stats are. That is why they acquired him for a mere pittance.

 

Lee Evans and Hangartner were traded by the Bills for financial reasons, not football reasons. Odds are that Evans will have an opportunity to participate in the playoffs and will be a good player for a good team and organization. I'm happy for him.

Edited September 14, 2011 by JohnC

[Alaska Darin]

And this is why I drafted Boldin in my fantasy league....

Me too.

 

One thing that won't change also is eventually Evans won't play as hard. Coverage roles back to Bolden and Evans will have to pickup the slack. He will catch his 2-4 passes for under 80 yards. Baltimore will lose those games. If Evans was so good as a number one reciever than why was Buffalo always at the bottom of the league as a offense. Even with Losman tossing long passes, Buffalo never ranked high enough to get us more than 7 wins. Moulds and Flutie managed 11-5 and 10-6 records. Sorry, there is a reason Buffalo never became a winning team and Lee Evans is one of them, just not good enough. Add Polusny, Witner, Lynch and any number of players gone for the same reason.

[billsfreak]

Apologies for starting another Evans thread but I thought it might be worth it since a) I'm probably the only dude on this board who actually watched the entire Balt/Pitt game and b)I'm probably the only guy on this board who hasn't missed a single one of those matchups in years since it's my favorite rivalry right now.

Here's the truth of the matter; Lee Evans has significantly altered the entire dynamic of this division rivalry. And I'd guess that these 2 games (and sometimes 3) are the biggest reason they brought him to Baltimore.

I don't care about math and/or whether he put up a single statistic. This game had Evans fingerprints on it right from the get-go. Do you know why Boldin was singled on the first TD vs a weak corner who'd been out all preseason? Because the Stillers rolled their coverage over at Evans. It's right there on the film if you want to see it. Did you know that Baltimore has repeatedly struggled to get their TE's and RB's involved in the passing game against the Stillers, and for many, many years now? Yet on Sunday they found enough space for these guys to catch about a dozen balls for 150+ yards. There were places all over the field where the Ravens have never been able to find space against Pittsburgh(flats and seams), yet now those places are suddenly vacant of defenders. I don't believe for a second that this is just a co-incidence.

For the first time in years, the Ravens have the ability to stretch the field in a big way. And suddenly they have more space to work with all over the field. If y'all think that Evans isn't a significant factor in this new equation, I'd have to say you're badly mistaken on that point.

 

P.S. This post is not intended to speculate on what Evans' may have done if he was still in Buffalo, or start tangents on why the Bills traded him. Just wanted to bring some light to the ongoing evolution of what I think is a really fascinating matchup. Doug Whaley is taking some grief from his old buddies in Pittsburgh right now because he played a part in altering the balance of power in this rivalry. But don't take any of that guff, Fresh! Give it right back to 'em with both barrels!!!

I actually DVR'd the game to watch it after the Bills game and you are exactly correct. Just his presence if going to create other receivers, namely Boldin to be open. Don't try to tell that to a bunch on clueless haters on this board though. To them Evans didn't have a bit of talent and had nothing to do with Johnson putting up decent numbers last year. Bottom line is, Evans will probably win a couple Super Bowls now before this team even sniffs the playoffs, and he will be a big factor in both cases with his presence and lack of presence. Another salary dump from Ralphy, and anyone who says it isn't is either in a coma or is so brainwashed that it isn't funny. It is going to take a little time for Flacco and Evans to get on the same page since they have only been teammates for a couple weeks. Flacco has never had a receiver so fast, so it will take some adjusting on his part too.

Edited September 14, 2011 by billsfreak

[GG]

Wow, The Bills scored 41 points and Fitzpatrick was the top rated QB with 4 TD's. Also 3 recievers had at least 4 catches for arounnd 60 yards, these were good numbers for Evans when he played the last two years. I believe Evans only had 1-100 yard game in his last 30 plus games. Don't miss him a bit. We had 4 wins last year with the mighty Lee Evans on this team. Did Lee Evans was out played by TO. Did Evans pull coverage for TO, I believe TO was double covered plenty of times. This love for a player who never had but really one good season makes no sense. The Bills didn't win enough with a number of players who Bills fans love. Bye Lee Evans, Donte Whitner, Paul Polusny, Marshawn Lynch, Trent Edwards and whoever else that is not here who never got more than 7 wins. You all were just not good enough! ask Thurman Thomas.

 

My guess is that you didn't watch the Ravens game?

 

Saying that Evans has no impact on Ravens offense and the opponents' game plans is as ridiculous as an idiot who says that Merriman didn't contribute to Bills' defensive effort because he didn't have a sack and only one tackle.

 

Watch the games and then spout off.

[dave mcbride]

This appears to be a debate between people who watched the game and people who looked at a stat line in a box score. It's silly.

[BobChalmers]

Evans has to start making catches else his credibility as a viable catching threat will go away and the advantage will be neutralized.

 

This - and quickly.

[The Big Cat]

this is like when favre was playing, would put up a

15/34, 1td, 4int game

 

and espn would say something along the lines of

 

"he's just out there being a gunslinger, having fun out there. the real value to his team, is that he makes his team mates better!"

 

lee evans:

 

no catches, no yards, no touchdowns

 

"if you can't see his value to the ravens, you don't know anything about football. completely changes the way the game is played. so good, he doesn't need to touch the ball to be a difference maker."

 

let's take this to other sports.

 

kobe bryant, 0/16 from the field, no points, fouled out in the fourth.

 

"kobe bryant, clearly the best player in the league, had double coverage all night but is such a good player, managed to turn an 0/16 night shooting into one of the main reasons the lakers are a championship contender this season."

 

Brett Favre, Lee Evans, Kobe Bryant. One of these things is not like the other.

[The Senator]

Teams are going to start pressing the Bills' WRs hard at the line. We have a bad offensive line and unproven, slow WRs. If I'm a DC, I'm jamming the WRs to buy time for my defensive front four to win their battles and get to the QB. We'll find out soon enough if Gailey can scheme around not having someone who can beat the defense over the top. Want to know my biggest concern? We draft a speedy WR with a top-15 pick next year. Take that to the bank.

I think the Bills are pretty pleased with their young WRs corps, this season and beyond. Regardless, trading up is not Buddy's M.O., and I really don't see Nix trading up to get into the top-15 unless it's for a QB.

 

(Now if Justin Blackmon or - better yet - Alshon Jeffery should declare for the 2012 draft and falls to us at the #32 pick, it'd be really stupid NOT to make that pick. )

19 and 0 baby!!!!!

[eball]

Once again, this discussion has degenerated into a black-and-white, no-room-for-shades-of-grey battle of extremes.

 

Either Evans is the greatest thing since sliced bread and makes everyone around him better, or he's a piece of crap who has schitty stats and doesn't play hard.

 

The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. It's a shame folks are so interested in proving themselves "right" they can't possibly imagine the trade might have actually been good for both teams.

 

And for the record, I still don't believe Nix was ordered to dump salary.

[billsfreak]

This appears to be a debate between people who watched the game and people who looked at a stat line in a box score. It's silly.

That is exactly correct, and for alot of people on here, the stat line is the only way they understand how to judge a football game. So if that is the case, Merriman sucks for sure, since Rian Lindell had as many tackles as he did in the box score.

Edited September 14, 2011 by billsfreak

[prissythecat]

Lee Evans and Hangartner were traded by the Bills for financial reasons, not football reasons. Odds are that Evans will have an opportunity to participate in the playoffs and will be a good player for a good team and organization. I'm happy for him.

 

 

Hmmm. Didn't the Bills pay Evans over a million just for showing up this season before they traded him? Also Hangartner was just simply released and not traded?

[DrDawkinstein]

Once again, this discussion has degenerated into a black-and-white, no-room-for-shades-of-grey battle of extremes.

 

Either Evans is the greatest thing since sliced bread and makes everyone around him better, or he's a piece of crap who has schitty stats and doesn't play hard.

 

The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. It's a shame folks are so interested in proving themselves "right" they can't possibly imagine the trade might have actually been good for both teams.

 

And for the record, I still don't believe Nix was ordered to dump salary.

 

[JohnC]

Hmmm. Didn't the Bills pay Evans over a million just for showing up this season before they traded him? Also Hangartner was just simply released and not traded?

 

Both players were traded for salary reasons. The organization couldn't trade Evans sooner because there was a lockout, precluding player transactions in general.

Anyone who believes that the player or players replacing Evans on the field is better is way off the mark. Hangartner was making starter money. Even as a backup the versatile player could have been a valuable utility lineman who can play both the center and guard positions. Anyone who has followed the Bills recognizes that a number of player transactions are dictateded by the financial side of the business rather than the football side.

[The Big Cat]

Once again, this discussion has degenerated into a black-and-white, no-room-for-shades-of-grey battle of extremes.

 

Either Evans is the greatest thing since sliced bread and makes everyone around him better, or he's a piece of crap who has schitty stats and doesn't play hard.

 

The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. It's a shame folks are so interested in proving themselves "right" they can't possibly imagine the trade might have actually been good for both teams.

 

And for the record, I still don't believe Nix was ordered to dump salary.

 

Totally agree about the salary dump, or lack thereof.

 

Problem in this debate is that folks squat on the line "stats don't tell the story." And while I fully agree, in the spirit of your post above, stats do tell A story. And 0 catches in this game doesn't tell the story of THIS game, but 0 catches in this game, and 44 games over a 108 game career of 2 catches or fewer...THAT tells A story.

 

And ultimately I think this is a debate between folks saying "He's just not that good" and others saying "You simply don't understand how good he is." The disconnect, for me at least, comes from a skepticism that the NFL--a notorious what have you done for me lately organization (in every aspect)--would continue to let a guy ride on reputation to the extent and to the level of respect that the pro-Lee guys would have you believe.

 

For a guy who has now STARTED 108 games as the #1 or #2 receiver and has walked away from 40% of those (or 6 games each year since 2004) with two catches or fewer, that's a body of work that cannot go ignored in this debate. So, me, I've resigned myself to sticking to the story that stats tell me:

 

He's just not that good.

 

EDIT: For a non-Bills point of reference, I finally resigned to saying the same thing this year about Fernando Torres.

Edited September 14, 2011 by The Big Cat

[K-9]

... Anyone who has followed the Bills recognizes that a number of player transactions are dictateded by the financial side of the business rather than the football side. ...

 

The same is true for every team in the league. It's just the nature of the beast.

 

Disclaimer: my comment is not to be construed as opining on the Lee Evans situation in any way, shape, or form. From my point of view there is nothing left to be said about Lee Evans other than to wish him the best in Baltimore.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[apuszczalowski]

I remember seeing a statistic that Evans had one of the best ratios of caught passes/drops in the league. Granted that was for last season or the season before, but I was still impressed.

 

I agree with those who say Evans hasn't played like a #1 WR is supposed to play. But he's still a very good deep threat--a point which Simon's thread has reinforced. Did he live up to his draft position? Probably not. Does he help stretch the field and keep defenses from selling out to stop the short stuff? He certainly does. The Atlanta Falcons traded away a first round pick for Peerless Price so that he could do these things for them, and Evans is a better WR than Price ever was.

 

Speaking of which . . . I think the Bills got shortchanged by only getting a fourth round pick for Evans. In my opinion a second round pick would have been about the right price.

Good luck with that, there have been plenty of better WR's dealt over the last few years that went for slightly more then what the Bills got for Evans. Very rarely will you ever get "fair value" when trading a player in the NFL these days.

[Doc]

Both players were traded for salary reasons. The organization couldn't trade Evans sooner because there was a lockout, precluding player transactions in general.

Anyone who believes that the player or players replacing Evans on the field is better is way off the mark. Hangartner was making starter money. Even as a backup the versatile player could have been a valuable utility lineman who can play both the center and guard positions. Anyone who has followed the Bills recognizes that a number of player transactions are dictateded by the financial side of the business rather than the football side.

Neither Evans nor Hangman were in the Bills' long-term plans. So they traded Evans and cut Hangman. The money savings was a side benefit but not the major driving force behind moving them.

[apuszczalowski]

Both players were traded for salary reasons. The organization couldn't trade Evans sooner because there was a lockout, precluding player transactions in general.

Anyone who believes that the player or players replacing Evans on the field is better is way off the mark. Hangartner was making starter money. Even as a backup the versatile player could have been a valuable utility lineman who can play both the center and guard positions. Anyone who has followed the Bills recognizes that a number of player transactions are dictateded by the financial side of the business rather than the football side.

HANGARTNER WAS NOT TRADED, HE WAS CUT/RELEASED

 

And I don't see an issue with any team cutting someone making starter money to sit on the bench for them if they don't feel they are good enough to start on the team. He was cut because the Bills felt he was only a backup C on their line, and they did not feel he was what they needed to play Guard, even in a backup role

 

 

As for Evans, They received an offer and felt that it would be better to get something for him, rather then keep him on the roster when they felt he did not fit what they wanted their WR's to do (run more routes besides just deep ones, and block). He may have been one fo the reasons that helped the Ravens beat the Steelers as bad as they did, but if he doesn't start making plays, teams will begin to throw their coverage over onto other WR's like Boldin. Thats the thing with being a decoy, it stops working when you aren't being viewed as a dangerous threat